Goodbye Finspreads jan 4th 2007

[JTrader]

Hi splorff

I do sympathise, what happened to you is a traders worst nightmare.

Having the finspreads person hang up the phone on you must have been awful to withstand.

Finspreads sound terrible, and as bad, if not worse than CMC who are not very good in my opinion. CMC are very abrupt and distrusting of customers. You speak to them on the phone, they won't answer basic questions about simple things like who provides their datafeeds and how their quotes are then determined. Before or after such conversations they have then wanted to know my name and account number, why i do not know.

I can recommend WorldSpreads. So far (2 months) they have been much better than CMC were, and the people on the dealing desk have seemed open and honest in the conversations I have had with them, able and willing to talk about datafeeds, and how their quotes and determined from datafeeds etc. WS also have the tightest spreads on several instruments, but with a £100 per point maximum bet size with 1 point spread instruments (which is enough for me).Though I'm not sure if WS cover the dow.

I also agree that Futures betting/two way futures is also a better option than finspreads/CMC as it is an exchange based, and therefore more transparent operation.

I don't wish to be critical but, paying a 6-pip spread, if you could get much less of a spread at WS, BB/TWF is hard for me to understand, why a trader would do this.

Trading at £100 per point, with a dial-up/non-broadband connection (??) is even harder for me to understand.

I have a mobile phone sat next to me, with all the numbers that i may need to ring in an emergency saved on it.

Good luck
JT.

 

[the blades]

Anyone had a bad experience of iii? Please let me know so I don't waste my time watching them.

Apparently world trade too use the same platform as fins! Are they also a white lable?

I think if it's a "white label", then iii are nothing more than a "badge" over finspreads - ie all your deals will go though finspreads, so you will encounter exactly the same issues. As before, check for yourself.

All the best,
UTB

 

[JTrader]

I think twowayspreadsbets/twowayspreads (an offshot of twoway futures, or so i believe) are a finspread whitelabel - you basically trade through the finspreads platform. This was the case about a year ago.....

 

[JTrader]

Worldspreads do offer a 1 pip spread on the dow.

 

[splorff]

if you're trading that sort of bet size, you should really be looking into trading with direct-access spreadbet since at least you are then dealing directly on the underlying futures market and not having to fart about with the SB firms pony synthetic market.

check out www.twowayfutures.com

Were you betting on the daily dow, or the dow future?

Thanks for this link. I think I'll take my business there. It sounds much better.

 

[splorff]

"be careful" there - I believe iii spreadbetting is a white label of finspreads, though check for yourself.

UTB

City Index is also a part of this chain. Better keep out of there too.

 

[splorff]

Yes, but you said previously that the server went down on you last week, when you had 50 pounds per point on. Now you have done it again with more money, not less! Fins have an unreliable site that can crash, either deliberately or by accident.

I will give anyone the benefit of the doubt. But if the behaviour happens a second time, then its time to act, so its goodbye finspreads. What makes the whole thing extremely suspicious is the timing of the server going down. They had all day to do it. Thats a whole eight hours or so. Yet it occured at a time which could not have been more stressful. I suspect foul play

So, what did you learn from this experience.?

To get away from finspreads and warn others.

You HAVE to have a stop on, especially with the Dow and overnight trading. With brokers, clients have their stops at the exchange, so they are safe, but IB warn their clients about a possible site crash and make trailing stops at clients risk, because they are not accepted by the exchanges and are triggered by the broker but not guaranteed by them

Spreadbetting at 100 pounds per point is expensive and represents 10 contracts. Those sizes should be traded with a broker, the spread is less for a start but, if you are not more careful you will lose your money, just the same. To not have a stop, even at a level that you expect will not be reached, is very imprudent and shows a lack of respect for one's own capital.

Are spread betting firms not brokers ?

Don't take this wrong, it is meant for others, not just you. It's a jungle out there!

Split

Thanks for your input

 

[Jack o'Clubs]

Are spread betting firms not brokers ?

bro·ker –noun 1.an agent who buys or sells for a principal on a commission basis without having title to the property. 2.a person who functions as an intermediary between two or more parties in negotiating agreements, bargains, or the like.


That should answer your question!

 

[splorff]

Hi splorff

I do sympathise, what happened to you is a traders worst nightmare.

Having the finspreads person hang up the phone on you must have been awful to withstand.

Finspreads sound terrible, and as bad, if not worse than CMC who are not very good in my opinion. CMC are very abrupt and distrusting of customers. You speak to them on the phone, they won't answer basic questions about simple things like who provides their datafeeds and how their quotes are then determined. Before or after such conversations they have then wanted to know my name and account number, why i do not know.

I can recommend WorldSpreads. So far (2 months) they have been much better than CMC were, and the people on the dealing desk have seemed open and honest in the conversations I have had with them, able and willing to talk about datafeeds, and how their quotes and determined from datafeeds etc. WS also have the tightest spreads on several instruments, but with a £100 per point maximum bet size with 1 point spread instruments (which is enough for me).Though I'm not sure if WS cover the dow.

I also agree that Futures betting/two way futures is also a better option than finspreads/CMC as it is an exchange based, and therefore more transparent operation.

I don't wish to be critical but, paying a 6-pip spread, if you could get much less of a spread at WS, BB/TWF is hard for me to understand, why a trader would do this.

Trading at £100 per point, with a dial-up/non-broadband connection (??) is even harder for me to understand.

I have a mobile phone sat next to me, with all the numbers that i may need to ring in an emergency saved on it.



]

Good luck
JT.

Its OK be critical.

People are creatures of habit, and when finspreads server went down on me for the first time last week. I gave them the benefit of the doubt. But I cannot forgive it happening a second time. Besides as I have said elsewhere, the timing was very suspicious. In an session of about 8 hours, it just happened to occur at a moment which was most stressful. I suspect foul play.

Yes I have dial up. I am no techie but I cannot see how broadband could have prevented finspreads dodgy server doing what it did that day.

Yes I should have had my mobile ready in case, but I didn't. Wont forget next time.

 

[splorff]

bro·ker –noun 1.an agent who buys or sells for a principal on a commission basis without having title to the property. 2.a person who functions as an intermediary between two or more parties in negotiating agreements, bargains, or the like.


That should answer your question!

The question was: Are spread betting firms not brokers?They do seem to fit the description above

 

[Jack o'Clubs]

They're not agents or intermediaries. In most cases you're betting against the house. As Arbitrageur wrote in a post somewhere in this thread, Finspreads didn't just make the £600 spread, they profited from your entire loss. Through a broker your trade is placed in the market and the broker is entirely ambivalent as to whether you win or lose. You need to know your enemy!

 

[splorff]

They're not agents or intermediaries. In most cases you're betting against the house. As Arbitrageur wrote in a post somewhere in this thread, Finspreads didn't just make the £600 spread, they profited from your entire loss. Through a broker your trade is placed in the market and the broker is entirely ambivalent as to whether you win or lose. You need to know your enemy!

Thanks Jack.

 

[Paulds11]

Man!... sorry.. to hear that. They are engaged in skulduggery Im afraid, it comes with the territory.
However, If I may also add the following notes of caution perhaps..

Is it really sensible to enter any trade without knowing what your not willing to accept as a loss in finite terms? isn't a stop loss or Limit order their to protect you against these "charlatans"? The winning in trading is not about the success..its managing the the losses.. 12 of my losses account for 70% of the total loss because I realised I was not exiting after loosing, trust me this is where you maximize your profits first, decide on a level close to your opening spread "loss" and if this seems too high, your betting is too high per point or you need to be more sure you make back the difference.. no time then to read books whilst trading I'm afraid.
Arnt you looking for trouble reading a book whilst trading? I cant be distracted even i wanted too
Is it a good idea to trade using dial up connectivity? It costs £22 a month for a solid supplier like Pipex (go lowest class but insist on business service and tariff so contention isn't an issue
Dont' you have a direct dealing telephone number to the brokers?

On the other side of the coin, they are providing a service to you and you via the software and it is wholly reasonable that they perform here, but the in any court action or money claim you will have to counter their argument which is bound to involve a case for telephoning them to stop the trade manually, and in that time the dow dropped according to you 40 points.. that is a huge drop in the dow for a reasonable 5 mins to call and get through twice isn't it?


Hope that helps... must have been a great book though...

 

[Splitlink]

Thanks for your input

No, spreadbetters are not brokers, they are financial bookmakers. They make a book on the direction they think the chosen instrument will go and the client bets that they are wrong. The taxman does not consider winnings to be taxable. A broker places your trade with the exchange- the stops, too. He takes a commision for that. The latter is where you should be for the amounts that you are trading. Spreadbetters are for smaller fry, like me

Good luck.

Split

 

[Splitlink]

Man!... sorry.. to hear that. They are engaged in skulduggery Im afraid, it comes with the territory.
However, If I may also add the following notes of caution perhaps..

Is it really sensible to enter any trade without knowing what your not willing to accept as a loss in finite terms? isn't a stop loss or Limit order their to protect you against these "charlatans"? The winning in trading is not about the success..its managing the the losses.. 12 of my losses account for 70% of the total loss because I realised I was not exiting after loosing, trust me this is where you maximize your profits first, decide on a level close to your opening spread "loss" and if this seems too high, your betting is too high per point or you need to be more sure you make back the difference.. no time then to read books whilst trading I'm afraid.
Arnt you looking for trouble reading a book whilst trading? I cant be distracted even i wanted too
Is it a good idea to trade using dial up connectivity? It costs £22 a month for a solid supplier like Pipex (go lowest class but insist on business service and tariff so contention isn't an issue
Dont' you have a direct dealing telephone number to the brokers?

On the other side of the coin, they are providing a service to you and you via the software and it is wholly reasonable that they perform here, but the in any court action or money claim you will have to counter their argument which is bound to involve a case for telephoning them to stop the trade manually, and in that time the dow dropped according to you 40 points.. that is a huge drop in the dow for a reasonable 5 mins to call and get through twice isn't it?


Hope that helps... must have been a great book though...

Spreadbetters tend to be untrusting with their opposite parts.That, I believe, is the problem they have with placing their stops. They believe, with good reason, that they will be cleaned out in a spike action. The other option, though, is a terrible uncertainty and the stress must be enormous when bets are at stake.

I trade profitably with Fins, but with far smaller amounts and I am confident that I know what I am doing. Frankly, I feel thaf £100 betters are better served with brokers. How anyone can trade like that without stops is beyond my comprehension. You can't think of anything else, when in a crisis, apart from getting someone to answer the phone!

In 1987- the big weekend drop- James Capel, a reputable broker at the time, would not pick up the phone for me until things settled down a bit, on the Monday morning. Anyone trading without stops in that atmosphere must have had a nightmare of a weekend.

Regards

Split

 

[splorff]

No, spreadbetters are not brokers, they are financial bookmakers. They make a book on the direction they think the chosen instrument will go and the client bets that they are wrong. The taxman does not consider winnings to be taxable. A broker places your trade with the exchange- the stops, too. He takes a commision for that. The latter is where you should be for the amounts that you are trading. Spreadbetters are for smaller fry, like me

Good luck.

Split

Thank you Splitlink thats cleared that up for me. I thought they were all brokers.

 

[Splitlink]

Thank you Splitlink thats cleared that up for me. I thought they were all brokers.

When I mentioned the small fry, I believe, probably incorrectly, that there is safety in numbers. You would attract attention. It is, probably, profitable to have one dealer watching just half a dozen of you guys.

Just a thought. Develope a suspicious mind- it pays!

Split

 

[JTrader]

Its OK be critical.

People are creatures of habit, and when finspreads server went down on me for the first time last week. I gave them the benefit of the doubt. But I cannot forgive it happening a second time. Besides as I have said elsewhere, the timing was very suspicious. In an session of about 8 hours, it just happened to occur at a moment which was most stressful. I suspect foul play.

Yes I have dial up. I am no techie but I cannot see how broadband could have prevented finspreads dodgy server doing what it did that day.

Yes I should have had my mobile ready in case, but I didn't. Wont forget next time.

Hi Splorff

I suspect that finspreads have really done wrong by you, and really sympathise with your plight. Any finspreads customers reading about your experience should be so shocked they should move elsewhere in my opinion.

A server going down is a very scary thing, and probably something of a grey area. While this resulted in you taking a significant loss with FS, no doubt somewhere, FS customers, were also stacking up a significant profit?
Unless the servers didn't really go down, and you were the only/one of the few customers to experience this problem?

Knock FS on the head, at least consider WorlsSpreads with their 1 pip spreads, and also look into futuresbetting/twowayfutures who are based in Gibraltar.

While WS may seem good so far to me, at the end of the day they are still a spreadbet dealer, like finspreads. FB/TWF are a spreadbet broker, only making their profit through client commissions, hedging all clients trades into the market that you are trading through direct access (very transparent as you are trading direct access, without commission, but just paying a wider spread to do so).

A broadband connection is considered to be much more reliable and stable than a dial-up connection. Virgin.net, metronet, broadbandquest, are some of the few broadband ISP's that have monthly contracts (with maybe a 30 day notice cancellation period, and a £50 cancellation fee). Most other ISP's have a 12 month minimum contract.

Good luck
JT.

 

[damianoakley]

Today I decided I was never again going to use Finspreads. I went long at about 12430. I don't use stops as I prefer to just watch whats happening with a book for company. It was going well about 27 points in my favour. Things then started to change for the worse. It started to nosedive. I hung on but was getting concerned. Suddenly The screen was no longer live, with no fresh updating. I didn't know where I was.

I turned the computer off, as I must to use the telephone. I called Finspreads. They must have been busy, as it was a while before I got an answer. I told the lady what was happening. Another wait, while she connects me to a dealer. Again I tell him what is going on. I am told that the server is down. Politely enough I told him what I thought of the service. The line then becomes dead.

I ring them again and got through the whole thing again. Then I'm talking to a dealer again. Yes the server is down he tells me. What about my bet I tell him. I havn't a clue whats going on, and I am long £100 per point on the Dow.

He wants my account number, post code etc. Eventually I discover I am nearly £4 K out of pocket. I get him to close the bet. As there is no point leaving it run as I cannot see what the hell is happening, and it could easily get worse.

Finspreads have a spread of 6 points. Therefore I placed £600 in their hand that day. Thats a tidy sum of money considering the little they do. I think the service considering its cost, is really crap. Servers- whatever they are, should not be going down or anywhere else for that price.

It really is just not good enough. To cap it all the Dow closed at 12480. I would have made 50 points 50 X100 = £5000. So, Ive lost about £9k all in.

The previous week while in a bet, they did the same thing -down server. Then I gave them the benefit of the doubt. Once yes, but not twice. Good bye Finspreads.

Hi All,

I have read this thread with a great deal of interest.

Anyone who knows me from my previous posts or from meeting me, will know that I am not a big fan of spreadbetting. I accept and respect the fact that there are traders who profit from it, but I have always viewed spreadbetting as placing a bet with a bookmaker who has a vested interest in whether you win or lose.

However, the opening post of this thread does not relate to anything concerning the usual gripes of spreadbetting, like wide spreads or price spikes. The trader lost money due to a computer crash at the broker. Now let's face it - a system error like the one described could effect any intraday trader at any time on any trading platform.

I would say that this thread highlights significantly the need to have a backup plan when things go wrong. How many of us can actually say that we have planned for every eventuality in our trading? Have we honestly thought of everything that could go wrong and prepared for it?

If you trade for long enough, the worst case scenario usually happens, and you have to be mentally ready to put your backup plan into action without hesitation.


Thanks

Damian

 

[CJIA]

I'll take a look at Etrade, or maybe the IB you mention.[/QUOTE]

I've been day trading on the daily dow using spread betting for 5 years and found some differences in the spread betting companies.
Here is my take on things.
Finspreads customer service very poor,execution was good,i opened big trades on the phone and closed online,this worked well but at times the Internet would go down so this proved to be a big pain at times.Scalping a few points was possible as they move the spread in accordance to the futures price.
There is also delay at times to update the result of your trade to reflect in your bank.
Two way spreads same as Fins.

Capital Spreads and E-Trade same company and same dealers,customer service was ok
Only traded online with these two and found the platform to be stable, they have had a few days when you are totally locked out and nobody would answer the phone,i have not traded with them for 12 months now so can't comment on them now.
What i found was that to scalp with them was impossible as they they would freeze the spread
around the market price,what i mean is that if the future price moved up and down 10 to 20 pips they would always have the spread on there positive side of the market or the spread would not move at all.There is also a delay in closing out trades.


I've been with with IG for 9 months and find them ok,customer service ok.Execution is very good and the platform is stable.It is possible to scalp as the spread continuously moves in accordance with the future price.They do slip points at time so on the whole i find them i find them to be the best spreadbetting company to day trade the daily dow.

Have not used Cantor or City or WS