If you have a 'buy' in place and when that's filled you place a 'sell' is there any chance no one will buy your contract? I have studied for around 5 years now trading the E minis but have found myself frozen with fear and cannot being myself to click the mouse and place a trade. When I first started trading I did well but then starting losing. I know now it's because I really didn't understand the system I was learning but that has caused me to fear now and I just can't get beyond it. Can anyone help?
Debbie,
If you are filled on your bid, then immediately place an offer on the other side of the spread, there is a remote possibility that if you bought at the very top of the market, prices will move against you and your offer will remain unfilled.
However, futures markets have "Designated Market makers" who are obliged to publish prices they are willing to buy and sell at for circa 90% of the trading day. If price moves against you, it will always be possible to close "at market" and hit whatever price is available from the MM's - this might be a bit off your entry, but you should be able to get out immediately.
The ES contract is very liquid; as I write, there are 11 @ 54.25; 54.50 for 73 - remember this is out of hours too. It is wholly unlikely that as soon as your bid or offer is filled that everyone leaves the market, there will always be a price to close at. I assume you will only be trading 1 contract to begin with, which shouldn't pose any problems with depth.
Of course, if you Buy at highs and sell at lows, a loss will be inevitable - but in either profit or loss, for 1 contract, you will always be able to get out - maybe at the wrong side of the spread, but during market hours in the ES front month, it'll only be about a tick off anyway.
I suggest you try it, placing an offer and trading out at market immediately afer your filled, with one contract. It should cost you 2 ticks plus comissions if you are very unlucky, call it $30, so write that off just to see that it can be done (call it $100, for the trade and the bottle of wine you can buy to celebrate 5 years of study into practice!).
Good luck!
If you are filled on your bid, then immediately place an offer on the other side of the spread, there is a remote possibility that if you bought at the very top of the market, prices will move against you and your offer will remain unfilled.
However, futures markets have "Designated Market makers" who are obliged to publish prices they are willing to buy and sell at for circa 90% of the trading day. If price moves against you, it will always be possible to close "at market" and hit whatever price is available from the MM's - this might be a bit off your entry, but you should be able to get out immediately.
The ES contract is very liquid; as I write, there are 11 @ 54.25; 54.50 for 73 - remember this is out of hours too. It is wholly unlikely that as soon as your bid or offer is filled that everyone leaves the market, there will always be a price to close at. I assume you will only be trading 1 contract to begin with, which shouldn't pose any problems with depth.
Of course, if you Buy at highs and sell at lows, a loss will be inevitable - but in either profit or loss, for 1 contract, you will always be able to get out - maybe at the wrong side of the spread, but during market hours in the ES front month, it'll only be about a tick off anyway.
I suggest you try it, placing an offer and trading out at market immediately afer your filled, with one contract. It should cost you 2 ticks plus comissions if you are very unlucky, call it $30, so write that off just to see that it can be done (call it $100, for the trade and the bottle of wine you can buy to celebrate 5 years of study into practice!).
Good luck!
Thank you for taking the time to respond to me. I was not aware of the "Designated Market makers." I day trade and scalp so would that apply to me as well?
I'm somewhat confused by your post. When I place a BUY I expect the market to go higher and then wait for a turn down in price to place a SELL. Also, I understand from what I'm told 5 to 10 contracts move as fast as one contract in the Eminis. Right now I am only trading (or trying to) one contract but when I first started I traded 5 contracts and they did seem to move as fast as one did.
My other question is, if I place (as an example) a BUY and go for say, just one point or tick and then place a SELL but the market is moving up, will that SELL get filled even though the market continues to move up? Is it likely there is someone on the other side that will buy my sell when the market is moving up? Or should I wait until the market turns down?
I hope this makes sense! I'm really frustrated with myself for not having the courage to do what I know to do.
I have studied charting for more than 5 years now and have found common patterns that are very dependable. When I paper trade I do extremely well if I stick to what I know, what I've found for myself.
Thanks again for your help!
The U.S. futures exchanges do not have designated markets markers. The options markets do but not the futures. Just wanted to make that clarification.
Jaydee
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You sound like me when I started trading...and probably just about everyone else.
The first trade I ever made (and the second, third and fourth…) caused my heart to beat through my chest and my body shook like a jelly! However, as time goes on this irrational fear should subside – if it doesn’t you need to fix it by accepting the risk before you make each trade (knowing what that maximum risk equates to is important here) and have no expectation that this trade will be a winner.
Trading with fear in your heart will cause you to make mistakes and often you will be too scared to enter what may turn out to be an excellent opportunity or, even worse, be too scared to exit a losing trade.
Just checking, but are you ok with the buying and selling orders? I think you were getting confused between limit and market orders.
Best
JD
I stand corrected; I knew the options did and wasn't really sure tbh, but the point about liquidity remains.
Hi Debbie
If you are using market orders you will always get filled but in very volitile conditions you may get some slippage.
That said, if your system permits, I would strongly advise you to use limit orders with bracket orders. I say this because in my own experience, it will definitely help you greatly with your emotions.
Good Luck and don't give up!
E
I know when I first started I was like most people, I didn't want to learn the ropes and jumped in before I fully understood the program I was using. Bad idea! I lost my concentration and began losing. I made very good money until that happened. Then I lost my confidence and fear set in. That's where I am at now.
I place BUYS AND SELLS at market and scalp. I'm in and out quickly but of course sometimes it's not so quick but I get out when the chart sets up for the exit. I don't place a trade I don't think will win. If I stick to what I've learned about charting my trade will be a winning trade. If I deviate from that I know I will probably lose.
Thanks much for the words of encouragement JD! People on this forum are wonderful!
Thanks much!
Scalping ES is extremely difficult. You're up against the best. Slippage and commissions are big factors, eating chunks out of profit from traders buying and selling at market.
I've seen traders with 80pc win rate lose money scalping ES.
As already said, use limit orders, let the market work for you. You'll need excellent money management technique and be able to act fast, not freeze.
Good luck
Honestly I have had other issues to deal with and haven't been trading. But I have used just market orders and have been very happy doing that. If the market turns on you you can get out right away with little loss. If it keeps moving in your direction, more money in your pocket. When I really didn't know what I was doing (when I first started) I did very well. But when things started going badly, I didn't know why so had to back off and learn the whys of things. Meanwhile I scared myself to death! So, then I've had to overcome the FEAR FACTOR! At this point I am confident that getting in and out with "at market" orders is the way to go for me.
Hi,
It sounds like the Fear Factor is really huge here.
Perhaps it is best to settle this by getting to understand where and why the Fear existed.
Since joining Fear Factor is not an option, you will have to find out yourself why.
Ie. 1. Perhaps the money you are trading with is of real significant ie. money you cannot afford to lose. Then you might want to save up a bit before trading actively.
2. Your past experience left you a HUGE Shock ie. lost of big money.
Then u really need to work on money management and discipline.
3. Lack of confidence? Get to trade along with other traders and not alone or sign up for a class or something to boost confidence. Perhaps you are not 100% condidence of what you have achieved in the past 5 years. Perhaps.
My 2 cents.
It sounds like the Fear Factor is really huge here.
Perhaps it is best to settle this by getting to understand where and why the Fear existed.
Since joining Fear Factor is not an option, you will have to find out yourself why.
Ie. 1. Perhaps the money you are trading with is of real significant ie. money you cannot afford to lose. Then you might want to save up a bit before trading actively.
2. Your past experience left you a HUGE Shock ie. lost of big money.
Then u really need to work on money management and discipline.
3. Lack of confidence? Get to trade along with other traders and not alone or sign up for a class or something to boost confidence. Perhaps you are not 100% condidence of what you have achieved in the past 5 years. Perhaps.
My 2 cents.
Hey:
You might overcome your FEAR FACTOR by sharing in a group.
Try the following chat mainly for signal-sharing:
emini_traders : Emini_Traders
bee1
Hi Debbie,
Are you trading during the US trading Time? Are you using any platform that has a DOM (Depth Of Market)? During the US trading time, S&P e-mini is very liquid. If you don't use a DOM, then you may miss a profitable trade and lose. By using a good DOM which has a bracket, you can set your LIMIT and STOP and as soon as you enter a trade, the DOM places the LIMIT (your profit target) and STOP ( your maximum loss). Some times in a volatile market, if your target is reasonable (like 2-4 ticks) you are in and out in a matter of a second even if your direction was wrong. You cannot place the LIMIT and STOP manually that fast. You have to set your LIMIT and STOP before entering the trade. If you can get even 2 Ticks per trade, that is $25. If your total commission and fees are less than $5, then you have a net profit of at least $20 per contract. With 5 contracts, that would be about $100 net. If you can do this several times a day, then you will do well. To get your confidence and speed and try your system or strategy (if you have one), I suggest to start with PAPER TRADING or Simulation account first. If you can consistently make money and grow your simulation account, then go with the real money. If you cannot make money with simulation account, then how can you expect to make money trading with real account?!!!! One last thing. Fear, Hope and Greed will wipe out your account. These three separates the professional and successful traders from the amateurs or I can make it more clear , THE LOSERS! I know because I speak from experience!!!!
I hope this helps,
Shahram
Are you trading during the US trading Time? Are you using any platform that has a DOM (Depth Of Market)? During the US trading time, S&P e-mini is very liquid. If you don't use a DOM, then you may miss a profitable trade and lose. By using a good DOM which has a bracket, you can set your LIMIT and STOP and as soon as you enter a trade, the DOM places the LIMIT (your profit target) and STOP ( your maximum loss). Some times in a volatile market, if your target is reasonable (like 2-4 ticks) you are in and out in a matter of a second even if your direction was wrong. You cannot place the LIMIT and STOP manually that fast. You have to set your LIMIT and STOP before entering the trade. If you can get even 2 Ticks per trade, that is $25. If your total commission and fees are less than $5, then you have a net profit of at least $20 per contract. With 5 contracts, that would be about $100 net. If you can do this several times a day, then you will do well. To get your confidence and speed and try your system or strategy (if you have one), I suggest to start with PAPER TRADING or Simulation account first. If you can consistently make money and grow your simulation account, then go with the real money. If you cannot make money with simulation account, then how can you expect to make money trading with real account?!!!! One last thing. Fear, Hope and Greed will wipe out your account. These three separates the professional and successful traders from the amateurs or I can make it more clear , THE LOSERS! I know because I speak from experience!!!!
I hope this helps,
Shahram
Actually, I just didn't know all I needed to know so when trouble came along I didn't know what to do, just reacted with emotion. Also at that time I suffered a trauma in life that rocked my world and I lost all confidence in myself. So I was dealing with more than just trading. When I paper trade I do extremely well.
Thanks for your response!
I am trading the e-mini in US time. I do very well paper trading. You are so right about the three emotions that will ruin a trader! When I first started trading I did very well but just didn't know enough about what I was doing and did not have the discipline to back off and educate myself further. My head is in a much better place now and I've learned a lot. Thank you so very much for your advice!
