Dow - Which Way?

[Chocolate]

Ok, so where can you get volume data and tick & trin for the dow?

 

[Bid A-Tool]

yes correct it will put them out but in my favour :cheesy:

on your stop loss idea im thinking of more of 50 points or less but have not worked on this area yet. I will use my demo account auto stop loss for now

Don

Don,

Sell signal on 6th May 2005. How does that one compare?

Bid A-Tool

 

[Bid A-Tool]

This is exactly the point I have been trying to make about "Stop Loss" orders.

http://www.vss2000.com/support/stoploss.asp

The proper prescription for using Stop-Loss orders, whether trailing or limit, and establishing a best scenario implementation and the optimum trigger limits can be a daunting task. We have in the past tried to suggest times and percentages for setting such orders, but could not come up with a satisfactory formula that can balance both safety and function. It has been our experience that, more often than not, a Stop-Loss order entered with the intent to protect the Investor from a possible steep loss, in reality can turn out to be more of a Loss Order. We would therefore suggest that one consider, as we do, being somewhat liberal with the stop loss activation point or trailing point. We are not saying that Stop-Loss orders do not have their place and function, however, great care should be exercised when used as sometimes they can work against the Investor.

 

[Lightning McQueen]

Ok, so where can you get volume data and tick & trin for the dow?

TICK and TRIN are for the whole of the NY stock exchange giving an overall picture of market sentiment.
TIKI is the same as TICK but is the dow 30 stocks only. I don't have a clue if there is a dow only equivalent of TRIN. (if I got this all wrong Im sure someone will put me straight :cheesy: )

for data try a downloader that will use Quote.com I use HQuote pro the symbols are $TICK $TRIN $TIKI
I just collect the data out of curiosity and not for use in any trading system as yet
volume data hmmm are you asking about up/down volume or total traded volume?

Don

 

[Lightning McQueen]

Don,

Sell signal on 6th May 2005. How does that one compare?

Bid A-Tool

Again as I dont know your trigger for the signal I will say what i see.

the peak of the signal is on the 6th so not really a trade IMO and its a friday. signal rolling over Monday 9th. confirmed sell signal on 10th with trade exit on 16th and new buy entry. can I ask what your trigger is, Im sure your looking at peak signal, which would be hard to trade live, hence your change in call the other day.

BTW my own trix histogram strategy (which I have posted on these boards) called a sell on the 5th I had forgotten all about this strat as I was getting so wrapped up in this new and better one.

Don

 

[Bid A-Tool]

Again as I dont know your trigger for the signal I will say what i see.

the peak of the signal is on the 6th so not really a trade IMO and its a friday. signal rolling over Monday 9th. confirmed sell signal on 10th with trade exit on 16th and new buy entry. can I ask what your trigger is, Im sure your looking at peak signal, which would be hard to trade live, hence your change in call the other day.

BTW my own trix histogram strategy (which I have posted on these boards) called a sell on the 5th I had forgotten all about this strat as I was getting so wrapped up in this new and better one.

Don

Correct call on the 16th March 2005 for a buy signal. Our systems appear to be quite close.

I have decided on a 75 point Stop Loss for all trades and enough to let the trade flow. I will not call a Buy or Sell order until after close (about 9:10pm). This is going to be strict & disciplined trading on my part. 311 points in the bag already. We shall see how it develops.

Bid A-Tool

 

[Chocolate]

Thanks for the info; I found $trin on stockcharts.com, more precisely http://stockcharts.com/h-sc/ui?c=%20$trin but it doesn't make that much sense to me...

I also found an interesting link at http://www.livecharts.co.uk/trinframe.htm which made more sense, but I'm not sure if this is live intraday or how to adjust the time frame.

Bid a Tool, I can't remember if I asked you this already, but do you use volume (because $trin involves volume).

 

[Lightning McQueen]

Correct call on the 16th March 2005 for a buy signal. Our systems appear to be quite close.

I have decided on a 75 point Stop Loss for all trades and enough to let the trade flow. I will not call a Buy or Sell order until after close (about 9:10pm). This is going to be strict & disciplined trading on my part. 311 points in the bag already. We shall see how it develops.

Bid A-Tool

Hi bid

this call is where they may differ but I can see why yours called a long

I have a confirmed short on the 9th and a close on the 30th march that little wibble up on the 14/15 march caused your system to signal a trade, its quite sensitive isn't it
agreed they are very similar so now we can move on to the live trades with some confidence
as I have posted i will run with an auto disaster stop

Don

 

[Bid A-Tool]

Thanks for the info; I found $trin on stockcharts.com, more precisely http://stockcharts.com/h-sc/ui?c=%20$trin but it doesn't make that much sense to me...

I also found an interesting link at http://www.livecharts.co.uk/trinframe.htm which made more sense, but I'm not sure if this is live intraday or how to adjust the time frame.

Bid a Tool, I can't remember if I asked you this already, but do you use volume (because $trin involves volume).

If I handed you the system on a "plate" tomorrow it still wouldn't make any sense. I have been intensely studying this system for two years and sometimes it can still catch you out. I know a little about volume and support and resistance levels and the others like candle sticks and other indicators but what is "tick & trin".......It sound like "trinny & suzanne" having a bad cloths day.

Bid A-Tool

 

[Bid A-Tool]

Hi bid

this call is where they may differ but I can see why yours called a long

I have a confirmed short on the 9th and a close on the 30th march that little wibble up on the 14/15 march caused your system to signal a trade, its quite sensitive isn't it
agreed they are very similar so now we can move on to the live trades with some confidence
as I have posted i will run with an auto disaster stop

Don

That's what I was thinking "quite sensitive". It appears to "spell" a trade. Oh well we will see how it goes.

Bid A-Tool

 

[Lightning McQueen]

Thanks for the info; I found $trin on stockcharts.com, more precisely http://stockcharts.com/h-sc/ui?c=%20$trin but it doesn't make that much sense to me...

I also found an interesting link at http://www.livecharts.co.uk/trinframe.htm which made more sense, but I'm not sure if this is live intraday or how to adjust the time frame.

Bid a Tool, I can't remember if I asked you this already, but do you use volume (because $trin involves volume).

Hi Chocolate
Thanks for the links. you may also like to try this link and watch the videos I have to admit to being a fan of their work

http://www.cbot.com/cbot/pub/cont_detail/0,3206,928+26322,00.html

FWIW I dont use volume at all in my own strategies (cant speak for Bid A-Tool's as we dont know the strat as yet )but can see the merit of trin etc which is why I am collecting the data for possible future use watch the videos and it will be clearer.

Don

 

[Bid A-Tool]

Just one point all you readers. I am not here to sell my strategy. This board and website is Trade 2 Win. I hope my system will help you to do that and give you the confidence to enter a trade without "fretting". If anyone can match my signals with their own system then that will help you even more.

I DO NOT want people to use real money in any of these trade. If you do so it will be at your own risk. (This system is being tested) If you want to play along then please use the CFD simulator (see the link below). Unfortunately you are unable to use "Stop Loss" orders for a trade on the simulator.

http://www.iii.co.uk/cfd/?type=simulator

Bid A-Tool

 

[tricks]

TIKI & TRIN

Been following this cryptic convo for the past few days with increasing amusement.

I use all manner of different tools depending on the prevailing market conditions. During the past two months I've harvested far more points than Tool simply by using the 200SMA and TICK&TRIN. No more, no less. In a choppy market it's absolutely unbeatable!

Sod the fancy systems when the market is doing all the hard work for you.

Hi Kew,

Very interested in your post. May I ask what the TIKI & TRIN are saying about the DOW as of today 23rd April. Are they suggesting overbought for example or telling you to stay in on a long? I have a genuine desire to know as I am currently short and running a 70 point loss! Wondering whether to take a hit - 'big ouch' - or stay in.
Also, can you reccommend a good data provider / software to use the TIKI & TRIN. Thanks in advance.

tricks

 

[SpeedScalper]

Hi Kew,

Very interested in your post. May I ask what the TIKI & TRIN are saying about the DOW as of today 23rd April. Are they suggesting overbought for example or telling you to stay in on a long? I have a genuine desire to know as I am currently short and running a 70 point loss! Wondering whether to take a hit - 'big ouch' - or stay in.
Also, can you reccommend a good data provider / software to use the TIKI & TRIN. Thanks in advance.

tricks

tricks,

Here is a chart with the TIKI....TRIN....etc. I made this chart several years ago. It is in Word format....so you can print it. I no longer use the TIKI or any other information on the chart. The values are my personal observations over the years. The "wild extremes" can go much higher....on the TICK....than what is shown....however....the do often "turn" at those levels.

I trade much different now than I did several years ago.

Good trading to you!

SpeedScalper

 

[Lightning McQueen]

kewbridge dont be shy you have a lot to offer this thread please post

Don

 

[kewbridge]

Hi tricks
Don't know much about TIKI, but www.livecharts.com has TICK& TRIN displays for free. Otherwise try www.lycosfinance.com or obviously the subscription packages like ShareScope etc. They all do them.

At end of play Fri DJIA TRIN stood at 1.46, which is getting to overbought, TICK was at 470 which is middleish going bearish - all in my book at least but DYOR. Doesn't necessarily mean anything for Monday morning as, on an intraday basis which is how I use them, they bob up and down like yo-yos.

Don't know from where you're short so can't really comment. I do think we'll see some volatility on Monday though so you might just get a chance to reverse. Personally, I'm playing mainly the long side till the end of next week, only short for scalping when it's just too bleedin' obvious not to - like violating the 200SMA for instance.



don:
Thanx! It's not that I don't want to post but I find that merely lurking is less of a distraction when day trading in choppy seas! Whenever I get into a convo on a board I tend to lose the plot on the trading front. But I pass by several times a day and I do enjoy the posts here. There's lots of useful stuff. I just find Tool's posts - er, odd? For someone who's developed a winning 'system' he does seem to have strange gaps in his grasp of market behaviour.

 

[tricks]

tricks,

Here is a chart with the TIKI....TRIN....etc. I made this chart several years ago. I no longer use the TIKI or any other information on the chart. The values are my personal observations over the years. The "wild extremes" can go much higher....on the TICK....than what is shown....however....the do often "turn" at those levels.

I trade much different now than I did several years ago.

Good trading to you!

SpeedScalper

Thanks for that SpeedScalper, very interesting chart. However, are you saying that you now consider that the indicactors are of no use? If so, may I ask why, and enquire what you now consider to be of more use?

'I trade much different now than I did several years ago.'

cheers - tricks

Good luck

 

[SpeedScalper]

Thanks for that SpeedScalper, very interesting chart. However, are you saying that you now consider that the indicactors are of no use? If so, may I ask why, and enquire what you now consider to be of more use?

'I trade much different now than I did several years ago.'

cheers - tricks

Good luck

tricks,

I have a much simpler method of trading now. Just like all traders....we try different things. I did very well using the values on that chart. One thing to be concerned about when using the TICK....is the fact it is based on the NYSE....not the ES. If you are trading just the Dow....then the TIKI is good....but I rarely trade the Dow. However....I had the TIKI....TICK....and TIKQ on my chart....and when they...."all indicated"....the same thing....then more than likely....it is a Market Move....rather than just a Dow move or a ES move or a NQ move. Market moves are always better....especially for Trend traders. While I am a Scalper....I will also trade a Trend.

By the way....I sold this chart and many other charts for trading....on eBay....several years ago....but no longer do that. So now....I just give these charts away.

SpeedScalper

 

[tricks]

Hi tricks
Don't know much about TIKI, but www.livecharts.com has TICK& TRIN displays for free. Otherwise try www.lycosfinance.com or obviously the subscription packages like ShareScope etc. They all do them.

At end of play Fri DJIA TRIN stood at 1.46, which is getting to overbought, TICK was at 470 which is middleish going bearish - all in my book at least but DYOR. Doesn't necessarily mean anything for Monday morning as, on an intraday basis which is how I use them, they bob up and down like yo-yos.

Don't know from where you're short so can't really comment. I do think we'll see some volatility on Monday though so you might just get a chance to reverse. Personally, I'm playing mainly the long side till the end of next week, only short for scalping when it's just too bleedin' obvious not to - like violating the 200SMA for instance.

Thanks Kew,

I'm short the DOW at 11312 'June' contract at £20 a point! Hence the 'big ouch' comment. And I'm grossly overtrading at that level - a knee jerk reaction to a another big loss the same night that I then entered this trade. Classic eh, as to how not to trade! Don't comment, I know, I know, I know. However at least I'm honest about my failures.
As a point of interest, what time frame/frames are you looking at on the 200SMA? And do you use the 200 on it's own or use shorter crossovers with it?

cheers - tricks

 

[SpeedScalper]

Hi tricks
Don't know much about TIKI, but www.livecharts.com has TICK& TRIN displays for free. Otherwise try www.lycosfinance.com or obviously the subscription packages like ShareScope etc. They all do them.

At end of play Fri DJIA TRIN stood at 1.46, which is getting to overbought, TICK was at 470 which is middleish going bearish - all in my book at least but DYOR. Doesn't necessarily mean anything for Monday morning as, on an intraday basis which is how I use them, they bob up and down like yo-yos.

Don't know from where you're short so can't really comment. I do think we'll see some volatility on Monday though so you might just get a chance to reverse. Personally, I'm playing mainly the long side till the end of next week, only short for scalping when it's just too bleedin' obvious not to - like violating the 200SMA for instance.

Thanks Kew,

I'm short the DOW at 11312 'June' contract at £20 a point! Hence the 'big ouch' comment. And I'm grossly overtrading at that level - a knee jerk reaction to a another big loss the same night that I then entered this trade. Classic eh, as to how not to trade! Don't comment, I know, I know, I know. However at least I'm honest about my failures.
As a point of interest, what time frame/frames are you looking at on the 200SMA? And do you use the 200 on it's own or use shorter crossovers with it?

cheers - tricks

tricks,

What timeframe are you using?

SpeedScalper