David Laws

Where on Earth have you got that idea from as there is nothing published that supports this view at all ?

It would have made no difference if he were straight and had done the same thing with a female partner the result would have been the same.


Paul

If he had had a female partner he would not have felt the need (however probably mistaken) to cover up the relationship, which is what seems to have led to his problems. In addition, I am just sure the press (certain sections of it) were only too delighted to "out" him because of their own particular views and prejudices, in order to cause maximum embarrassment.


It's interesting: that other (pre-scandal) article spoke of his objections to section 28, and I thought to myself, I wonder if he's gay? The next thing I hear about him is that there is a "gay lover" "scandal".

By the way, I only said "it looks as though", not "he has been". Perhaps I should have expressed it as "This has the appearance of his having been hounded out because of his sexuality[, even though this may not be the case]".


There would be certainly some on the Tory right (e.g. of the Telegraph-reading persuasion), who would have been very unhappy about the coalition in any case, for it to be the last straw to find out that one of their most prominent coalition partners was "batting for the other team".


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/new...erate-act-of-an-MP-scared-of-being-outed.html

It is a sad fact that from the second David Laws was appointed Chief Secretary to the Treasury, some tabloid parliamentary journalists have been trying to work out how to out him. That is not a criticism of The Daily Telegraph – the paper pointed out that it intended to run the story but not reveal Laws's sexuality, and after it asked questions of the Chief Secretary, he publicly acknowledged the relationship.

hmm....but of course the Telegraph knew perfectly well that as soon as the story broke, even without mention of his sexuality, it would only be a short time before the full story emerged, so they are no better than the tabloids.

Admittedly, their motive was more anti-coalition than anti-gay, but hey, two birds with one stone.
 
He'll be back later.

Just look at Mandelson's comebacks - his sexuality didn't seem to get in his way.

I don't think he will be easily forgiven for having caused so much embarrassment so early on.

Mandelson knew where all the bodies were buried, and was a master at making himself seem indispensable (God knows how). Laws hadn't had time to establish himself, and the little bit of good he helped to do with the immediate 6bn cuts was probably undone as the Government had to try to calm the markets in the wake of the "scandal".
 
Laws only broke the law after becoming an MP and not before so it would not be possible to know what was going to happen until after he was elected.


Paul

Valid point but surely there are some checks done after election too ? By the constituency party and the privilege's committee. Especially with the knowledge that a lot of MPs were fiddling their expenses. Did he lie his way past them ?
Without The Telegraph this whole sordid episode of MPs expenses would have not come to light - well done them !! Outed 100s 0f them - honesty wise

Whoever called them lying, cheating b*astards didn't know how right they were
 
If he had had a female partner he would not have felt the need (however probably mistaken) to cover up the relationship

This just isn't true and also makes no sense. He did not cover up or intend to cover up the relationship and that is not the issue. If he had been concerned about having to cover up his relationship then he would not have risked using tax payers money in the way that he did as this was always going to be a very weak link in any cover up attempt.

Even if he had been straight and had been open about seeing someone the result would still have been exactly the same.


Paul
 
If the average Joe had been caught stealing £20 of stuff from the corner shop he could have got a prison sentence.

The politicians who embezzled 10s 0f thousands 0f £s got off really lightly having been caught. Had to pay it back and maybe out of office for a few months.

Do I look up to the trash at the top - fraid not, its just scandal after scandal.

He'll bounce back like Mandelson, Archer etc. Not much of a deterrent is it !!
 
One thing you're overlooking here is that he campaigned tirelessly on his whiter-than-white expenses record, and deliberately poked fun at other high claiming MPs (I think one of his targets was Oliver Letwin, who claimed £20k for something or another). His attitude was fairly patronising in fact (as was Clegg's), yet all along he was knowingly breaking the laws of the land (see that little pun?).

He's a chiselling little crook like the others.. not quite in Elliot Morley's league (claiming mortgage for a property which was fully paid) but that's just semantics, a crook is a crook.

For him to then go on to preach to us about restraint and everything else, well frankly my dear, f-k off.
 
Oh yes, the bit about "he wasn't my partner because we didn't have a joint bank account", that's up there with Straw's claim that "accountancy is not my strong suit" when caught out for claiming twice on council tax.

If a bank robber says "Sorry, didn't realise stealing from banks was illegal, here, have the money back" do you then let him go??
 
This just isn't true and also makes no sense. He did not cover up or intend to cover up the relationship and that is not the issue.

Excuse me? That is exactly what he did, until this whole thing came out.
This has certainly been made clear in many published sources subsequently.
He had not told his friends or family. He and his partner appear to have led a separate social life. I had not realised he was a Catholic. Now that I know that, as a former Catholic myself, I can well imagine exactly why he didn't want to be particularly open about his sexuality (if his family and background were anything like mine).

If he had been concerned about having to cover up his relationship then he would not have risked using tax payers money in the way that he did as this was always going to be a very weak link in any cover up attempt.
Logically you are correct, but it appears that that is exactly what he did do.
He has admitted he was foolish to expect to be able to cover it up, and naive, and frankly, if you think this whole thing is only about expenses and not about his sexuality, then I think you are being a bit naive Paul.

Even if he had been straight and had been open about seeing someone the result would still have been exactly the same.
Possibly, but then we are back to the probability (IMO) that had he had a heterosexual partner, he would not have felt the need for any cover-up. Even my old-fashioned, very traditional, very orthodox Catholic extended family can just about cope with heterosexual out-of-wedlock partners ("living in sin"). Gay partners would not be discussed with people like my Mum and seemingly not with Laws' Mum either.

Since my original posting, I have heard of something called a "co-habitation allowance" of £20,000 per year which he could have claimed had he been open about the relationship. Presumably also had it been a heterosexual relationship. Again, had it been the latter, I doubt if he would have had much hesitation in claiming that openly.

Nothing to do with his sexuality? Well, it seems that Julian Glover agrees with me:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/libertycentral/2010/may/30/felled-shame-david-laws

Even so, Laws would have endured if he had not found his sexuality blasted into the public domain – the Telegraph running a blurred snatched photograph of his partner. Some people will dislike the argument that sexuality had anything to do with his downfall, as if gay men are asking to be excused from rules that apply to others. But Laws did not ask to be excused. He simply ended up in an awful mess. People do, sometimes.
(My emphasis)


On another tack, Polly Toynbee says that he was a bit dodgy over some other claims as well, so for someone in his position, he was skating on thin ice anyway.

On yet another tack, it has been argued that MPs like Laws should not have to answer questions about their private life when making claims at the taxpayers' expense. Several letters to the Guardian have made the point that benefit claimants are not spared extremely close scrutiny about their private lives, with examples being given of benefit snoopers checking the sleeping arrangements in shared houses, and generally spying on claimants. In addition, false claimants are liable to face a prison sentence. Laws has only had to sacrifice a well-paying and prestigious job (although he still has another well-paid and fairly prestigious job to fall back on, lucky chap), with the suggestion that "he will be back soon".

One of the letters said that Cameron should just have given Laws a week off to "make his peace with his Catholic guilt and his Mother".


And earlier article from Glover, before Laws actually resigned/was sacked:

The story of David Laws has an uncomfortable echo: the downfall of BP's former chief executive John Browne. Both men – for reasons their friends still don't understand – tangled themselves in entirely unnecessary efforts to hide their sexuality. Browne fell. Laws may survive – he deserves to – but this looks bad.

Both men once worked in the City – once very homophobic, only somewhat less so now – and caught the habit of not telling the truth about themselves. Both are extremely close to their mothers and Laws kept his life secret even from her, though she surely guessed. Both men are loners, Laws an ascetic puzzle even to his closest friends. Both men ended up in a mess.
(My emphasis)


Instead Laws fell in love with his landlord, the moment their relationship moved from affection to partnership perhaps less clear cut in their own minds than in cold print on the front of the Daily Telegraph. No doubt he persuaded himself that he was claiming way below the Commons maximum. No doubt he feared the consequences of changing the arrangement: would someone spot their relationship?
(my emphasis)

Of course there was nothing to fear. But the human brain does not always work like that. And it is not hard to guess why. His mother is Catholic. Laws had a Catholic education. The news broadcast this morning, which reported his situation, went on to cover the Archbishop of Canterbury's efforts to stop churches giving their blessing to gay partnerships. The world is less progressive than it sometimes seems from north London.

This is a scandal – if it is a scandal – caused by one man's inability to face up to his sexuality, not a desire to fiddle expenses. Whether he is now a credible face of public spending cuts is for the media, his party, and the prime minister to decide. I desperately hope he survives. I fear he won't.
(My emphasis)

And he didn't, of course. For now.
 
Standards have been pushed down and down by the usual suspects over the last 50 years. But the pendulum may well swing back sometime, but will it be before there are no morals or standards are left ?

Its tempting for the law makers to feel exempt from the standards they set for others.

The recent bank fiasco surely proved that the robbers are not reduced to demanding money at gunpoint as was the custom but now work inside the banks in the top jobs. Talk about laughing all the way to the bank ! Tony Blair and His Lordship 2 Jags etc. know all about that and do it all legally. Another credit for free education no doubt.
 
montmorencyt2w,

Fairs points but I still think that his situation was caused by himself and not the system being anti-gay.


Paul
 
I think that "anti-gay" is no longer an issue nowadays. I'm getting on and it is not with me. My objection was that he was not being clear with an expense problem, when he knew that this same problem was one of the election issues.

No matter how intelligent he is supposed to be, he was not that bright to think that the media would not find out, sooner or later. Fortunately for us and the government it was sooner and we are better off without him.
 
When you look at the original list of all MPs expenses when the story broke it's amazing how close together the amounts were. The vast majority got near £150K in expenses of one kind or another and it didn't seem to make much difference whether they were second homers or not. David Laws, as I recall, was down near the bottom of the list.

Pretty clearly it was all about a hidden pay boost - "...in addition you can have up to £150k in "expenses", although you'll need to put in some evidence to keep the books straight." - type of thing.

All very naughty, naughty of course.

It does seem a shame that such a sharp brain as David Laws is lost - his performance in Parliament when he announced the cuts was, I thought, excellent and a model of how to do business without slagging everyone off and trying to score political points - particularly when the expenses thing was (is) endemic and institutionally driven.

jon
 
Fix electrodes to the b*stards nuts imo and crank up the handle

They would then think twice before ploughing on

None of that soppy gobbledy-gook of being a deprived child etc
 
Fix electrodes to the b*stards nuts imo and crank up the handle

They would then think twice before ploughing on

None of that soppy gobbledy-gook of being a deprived child etc

I do believe that we have a radical amonst us. :D
 
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