CMC Complaint & Ombudsmans Response

In his case hedging the position with another broker would have been the natural thing to do.

CMC did not hedge this postion, thy stood to loose quite a few quid in a short amount of time, I could not put orders or nothing into the market as they would not accept online instructions or telephone instructions.

As a order taking business this is discracefull.

We will see how the this unfolds as more news reporters have showen an intrest in this story.
 
TomTom said:
In his case hedging the position with another broker would have been the natural thing to do.

CMC did not hedge this postion, thy stood to loose quite a few quid in a short amount of time, I could not put orders or nothing into the market as they would not accept online instructions or telephone instructions.

As a order taking business this is discracefull.

We will see how the this unfolds as more news reporters have showen an intrest in this story.
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Well, by that statement I meant that you should have been ready to hedge the position with another SB if something went wrong. Maybe you didn't have that possibility at the time.

Good luck!
 
gle101 said:
Well, by that statement I meant that you should have been ready to hedge the position with another SB if something went wrong. Maybe you didn't have that possibility at the time.

Good luck!
Click to expand...

Not only that, maybe he doesn't know how to do that!!! You can't assume people know you know. :-0

Point is, if they made market to open a trade, then they should make market to close it - it's that simple. The price and spread they quote is entirely up to them but they should have made market.

If what TomTom says is correct, then they already know this hence why no records or anything were kept by CMC which would, presumably have forced them to honour their commitment to make market at that time.

If TomTom had been more diligent and kept a few records, I wonder how things'd have turned out then? May not have needed to start this thread...:-0
 
seguna said:
Not only that, maybe he doesn't know how to do that!!! You can't assume people know you know. :-0

Point is, if they made market to open a trade, then they should make market to close it - it's that simple. The price and spread they quote is entirely up to them but they should have made market.

If what TomTom says is correct, then they already know this hence why no records or anything were kept by CMC which would, presumably have forced them to honour their commitment to make market at that time.

If TomTom had been more diligent and kept a few records, I wonder how things'd have turned out then? May not have needed to start this thread...:-0
Click to expand...

Is there a remote chance cmc dont keep detailed records - i think not
 
seguna said:
Not only that, maybe he doesn't know how to do that!!! You can't assume people know you know. :-0

Point is, if they made market to open a trade, then they should make market to close it - it's that simple. The price and spread they quote is entirely up to them but they should have made market.

If what TomTom says is correct, then they already know this hence why no records or anything were kept by CMC which would, presumably have forced them to honour their commitment to make market at that time.

If TomTom had been more diligent and kept a few records, I wonder how things'd have turned out then? May not have needed to start this thread...:-0
Click to expand...
Honestly, if you put 2k in one position, in a volatile market like the DAX index, you owe it to yourself, to be aware that something might go wrong. Either the site can go down or you might not get through to the dealers. Something unexpected could happen, in this case the dealer refused to close the position. It doesn't help you to blame the company (even if they should have closed, at least part of the position). The end result of such a hugely leveraged position can be devastating if it goes against you in a big way. I would personally have been very glad to get out of a position like that on the plus side. I am not saying that he shouldn't fight for what he believes is right. Inexperience can cost you a lot. I am sure that TomTom agrees, and he will not attempt such an experiment again, unless completely secured from all angles.
 
Gle101

True words. But the issue here is not about volatility of the DAX etc. It's about the integrity of CMC! They ALLOWED him to build up £2000 ppt worth of position in that index. They are therefore OBLIGED to let him close - even if in smaller sizes or adjusted prices! That is part of the obligation of market makers and is in fact what it means to 'make market' in a stock, future or whatever instrument - to offer buying and selling prices.

Ultimately, the fact that THEY have strenously denied that he even TRIED to close, rather than that he tried to do so but THEY would not offer prices, says it all...
(n) Why else are they claiming no phone records and all that cr*p?

Granted, TomTom should have been more careful and had backup plans in place etc but if CMC knew the risk was too big for them (or the underlying market) they should NEVER EVER EVER have allowed him to OPEN to that level in the first place!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:(

That's not market making it's grand thievery...and as I said earlier they may have thought he was a nutter and not bothered to even hedge it. But that's not easy cos their computers AUTOMATICALLy highlight such large positions...
 
seguna said:
Gle101

True words. But the issue here is not about volatility of the DAX etc. It's about the integrity of CMC! They ALLOWED him to build up £2000 ppt worth of position in that index. They are therefore OBLIGED to let him close - even if in smaller sizes or adjusted prices! That is part of the obligation of market makers and is in fact what it means to 'make market' in a stock, future or whatever instrument - to offer buying and selling prices.

Ultimately, the fact that THEY have strenously denied that he even TRIED to close, rather than that he tried to do so but THEY would not offer prices, says it all...
(n) Why else are they claiming no phone records and all that cr*p?

Granted, TomTom should have been more careful and had backup plans in place etc but if CMC knew the risk was too big for them (or the underlying market) they should NEVER EVER EVER have allowed him to OPEN to that level in the first place!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:(

That's not market making it's grand thievery...and as I said earlier they may have thought he was a nutter and not bothered to even hedge it. But that's not easy cos their computers AUTOMATICALLy highlight such large positions...
Click to expand...
Well, if you have funds to cover up for the margin requirements of the position, I cannot see that CMC have done anything wrong in opening the position in the first place. Yes, I agree with most of what you say, but what does it help if something goes wrong and you don't have any other alternatives. TomTom might even lose such a case if it goes to court and get stuck with a hefty cost for the trial.
 
gle101 said:
.... but what does it help if something goes wrong and you don't have any other alternatives. TomTom might even lose such a case if it goes to court and get stuck with a hefty cost for the trial.
Click to expand...

I take your point but again you miss mine. Your point is that traders should, as much as possible, be self-insuring. That's very wise in the selfish, unjust, dog-eat-dog world we live in.

"...if something goes wrong and you don't have any other alternatives..."

It all depends what goes wrong. Some things you can do something about, some things you can't. For example if the market utterly crashed 200 points in 15 mins, one cannot hold the MMs accountable for not honouring stops etc

Again, for me, the issue is a simple one. If CMC have been dishonest and are taking advantage of the apparent lack of records/evidence to the contrary, then that's what needs to be addressed and made right FIRST. TomTom's apparent naivety, and what it may have cost him comes second to that and I agree that it's an issue to be learned from big time!

Let's not kid ourselves though, how many traders do you know that record all their phone calls and screen trades etc? Even the ones that know they should?
 
seguna said:
I take your point but again you miss mine. Your point is that traders should, as much as possible, be self-insuring. That's very wise in the selfish, unjust, dog-eat-dog world we live in.
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Yes, sorry to say this is the case in any trading enviroment.
 
why sorry?

"where's your offer?"
"i'am at 89"
"ok, i would like to buy those.would that be ok?"
"ooh, i'm not sure. maybe it's not. i'd like to back off to 94. would that be ok"
"yeah, that's fine. i'll just leave it thanks"

of course it's a dog eat dog world in trading.
 
gooseman said:
why sorry?

"where's your offer?"
"i'am at 89"
"ok, i would like to buy those.would that be ok?"
"ooh, i'm not sure. maybe it's not. i'd like to back off to 94. would that be ok"
"yeah, that's fine. i'll just leave it thanks"

of course it's a dog eat dog world in trading.
Click to expand...
Let just say that I have many years of trading experience and don't like to blame anybody else when something unexpected happens.
 
Thank you all for your input and support with this thread.
After much consideration I have decided for FOS to review there decision based on information that I requested to be taken onto account was not obtained plus there is a criminal offence against CMC for not sending information under Data Protection Act ( the buck stops with Mr Cudass / CEO on this one )
I will be posting over the next few days
1, My original compound
2, Multiple requests for information DPA
3,CMCs Final response
4,FOS findings ( this is very good reading )
5,Other findings/unfair practises from other traders who attempt to close high value bets with CMC.

All this can be seen on through a separate link ( just a photo website )

Watch this space.

I realise I have been dealing with Mr Cudass's firm, however because a criminal offence as been committed by CMC unfortunately it is the owner who has to pick up the piece's. This is a bold statement and I realise CMC has more $$££ than me, but ask yourself this ?
1, FSA guidelines state that companies that deal with sensertive information must have telephone recording facilities. CMC do have these facilities, however only on a fraction of the lines ( none compliance )
2, Failure to provide information under DPA on more than one ocassion is a criminal offence. ( Mr Cudass or CEO will not like this and hopefully he will take a personell interest in this case when he realises the implications )
3,Been economical with the truth with written statements to FOS = Possible Fraud = ( criminal offence = Jail for Mr Cudass or CEO )
 
CMC are a pile of crap if you ask me. Used them for day and gave up. Bought some IHG.L 5000 i think, all fine, went up a bit, tried to sell them and they bid me 2p out....would be OK apart from the fact there was 70000 on the bid at the time in the underlying market.

Account closed.
 
Tom Tom

If you are trading in size of upto 175 lots of DAX why are you not using Futuresbetting?
It makes no sense to me as they are DMA and you would have been able to work the clips?
 
riogordo said:
Tom Tom

If you are trading in size of upto 175 lots of DAX why are you not using Futuresbetting?
It makes no sense to me as they are DMA and you would have been able to work the clips?
Click to expand...


This was early 2007 M8 was happy with CMC at the time before this episode
 
Interesting read here. I was just deciding if spread betting is worth the hassle and this has just answered my questiong. would you say £20pp is large? Well if you think it is not then you are living in a dream world cmc market terrrible. I am moving my money as they are refusing to execute my trades and only on requotes and then when I want to close out they refuse and hit my stop.. All because I am in the money. I will take my money and look for another company.

The interesting thing is CMC are now in bed with natwest hmmm....... I am sure they cannot afford all this publicity. Perhaps the next in line after the banks are the spreadbetting thieves who try to still from little fish.

One must add though were does MIDFID stand with all this. Treat your customer fairly... They are to prove that they indeed acted in your best interest...
 
Cooltrader

If you are betting more than £10pp then FB are well worth looking at. Absolutly no requotes.
 
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