Calling all "Senior Members T2W" Experienced traders! Help Newbies?
Steve
You have been hiding in the closet, some excellent posts which must have taken time and effort, thank you and well done.
Of course you can apply maths to your trading especially is assessing are you applying the best method for your money. When you talk of adding to positions this is rather similar to that of a pyramid style trader. One that tends to follow trends and will place his first buy and then on each subsequent support for the next move up buy again. This of course can be applied to any time frame because obviously trends apply in all time frames just on smaller scale as you move down or the reverse if you move up a time frame.
If we consider the math of this. The best opportunity to enter a trend is on the reversal, but this can be difficult unless skillful, get a clue from divergence or some other method. Alternatively the entry could be at the point the trendline is broken and again it could be the first sign of support after the trendline is broken.
It could be said that the lowest point in the new trend was the optimum time to enter because if you are able to run the length of this new trend then your money will benefit from the longest part of the price move.
Entering the 2nd amount will also do well the closer it is to the original entry and of course by this stage (subject to the time frame you are trading) you are already in profit from the 1st position so the trader is more confident to add to his position. And so this continues with the overall position increasing until the money runs out in terms of money management or the trend comes to an end.
When you assess what each deal has produced in terms of profit then the last entry will offer the least gain and each deal placed earlier will have more to profit as you move back along the line of deals.
On purely a mathematical basis the best entry was the earliest in the trend. The test for most traders is could they see it all the way through, most probably not. However if this was a specific trading method then with the faith in it it would encourage greater discipline for staying with the deal or at least opening your mind to this thought process to allow one to develop such a method.
Chump are you by any chance in the medical profession your posts are always DEEP, but meaningful.LOL
Simple old me is rather basic. Thanks also go to dbp also some good straight to the point no messing about posts with large messages contained within. You lot have certainly made me think differently the last few days or at least made me realise a greater understanding of what I have been doing from a visual perspective. Thank you.
Have a good weekend all
Regards
Kevin
You have been hiding in the closet, some excellent posts which must have taken time and effort, thank you and well done.
Of course you can apply maths to your trading especially is assessing are you applying the best method for your money. When you talk of adding to positions this is rather similar to that of a pyramid style trader. One that tends to follow trends and will place his first buy and then on each subsequent support for the next move up buy again. This of course can be applied to any time frame because obviously trends apply in all time frames just on smaller scale as you move down or the reverse if you move up a time frame.
If we consider the math of this. The best opportunity to enter a trend is on the reversal, but this can be difficult unless skillful, get a clue from divergence or some other method. Alternatively the entry could be at the point the trendline is broken and again it could be the first sign of support after the trendline is broken.
It could be said that the lowest point in the new trend was the optimum time to enter because if you are able to run the length of this new trend then your money will benefit from the longest part of the price move.
Entering the 2nd amount will also do well the closer it is to the original entry and of course by this stage (subject to the time frame you are trading) you are already in profit from the 1st position so the trader is more confident to add to his position. And so this continues with the overall position increasing until the money runs out in terms of money management or the trend comes to an end.
When you assess what each deal has produced in terms of profit then the last entry will offer the least gain and each deal placed earlier will have more to profit as you move back along the line of deals.
On purely a mathematical basis the best entry was the earliest in the trend. The test for most traders is could they see it all the way through, most probably not. However if this was a specific trading method then with the faith in it it would encourage greater discipline for staying with the deal or at least opening your mind to this thought process to allow one to develop such a method.
Chump are you by any chance in the medical profession your posts are always DEEP, but meaningful.LOL
Simple old me is rather basic. Thanks also go to dbp also some good straight to the point no messing about posts with large messages contained within. You lot have certainly made me think differently the last few days or at least made me realise a greater understanding of what I have been doing from a visual perspective. Thank you.
Have a good weekend all
Regards
Kevin
SOCRATES, Hi you may remember me from way back when ever this thread was started. You advised me then to be patient, you may recall. You also advised me to follow the thread to learn and see some real fireworks.
I think I have seen some fireworks as this thread has progressed, but I have to admit the only ones I understand are the ones between members on this board.
The post above by Jumpoff reminds me of the great and simple things I have learnt on this thread as it has grown. I also sincerely thank all the experienced members on this thread who have taken the time to contribute with there time and knowledge.
However when I posted the cry of help initially to experienced traders, to help me and other newbies.
It was for sound practical advice to help us on are way.
There is absolutely no doubt that we have had that in bucket loads and even I understood some of it and again I thank you all.
The truth is I just don't understand most of what you guy's are saying! and there are amazingly large gaps till I do understand something.
The Unlearning bit was quite embarrassing for me as I don't know anything anyway.
All I want to know ,if I do not understand all what you experienced guy's/gal's are talking about at this point (and I have read every post) should I take a taxi?
If this thread is more for the big boys please keep it going so I may re-visit it ,when I'm a bit more grown up.Please don't wait or hold your breath it could be some time.
Thanks Again Gary
I think I have seen some fireworks as this thread has progressed, but I have to admit the only ones I understand are the ones between members on this board.
The post above by Jumpoff reminds me of the great and simple things I have learnt on this thread as it has grown. I also sincerely thank all the experienced members on this thread who have taken the time to contribute with there time and knowledge.
However when I posted the cry of help initially to experienced traders, to help me and other newbies.
It was for sound practical advice to help us on are way.
There is absolutely no doubt that we have had that in bucket loads and even I understood some of it and again I thank you all.
The truth is I just don't understand most of what you guy's are saying! and there are amazingly large gaps till I do understand something.
The Unlearning bit was quite embarrassing for me as I don't know anything anyway.
All I want to know ,if I do not understand all what you experienced guy's/gal's are talking about at this point (and I have read every post) should I take a taxi?
If this thread is more for the big boys please keep it going so I may re-visit it ,when I'm a bit more grown up.Please don't wait or hold your breath it could be some time.
Thanks Again Gary
Jeez - you guys make it all sound so hard...
How about?
1 wait for a directional break out/reversal pattern. (Leave it alone, watch and wait)
2 wait for it to pull back. (they always do at some point)
3 When the pull back turns around again - Get In with a smallish stop. (safer place to get in with higher probability of success)
4 Wait for sensible exit signal/target. (moves will either hit a target or eventually run out of steam)
5 When target met or exit signal occurs - Get Out
Solves the stop problem, confirms the direction, gives plenty of room for profits to be bigger than losses.
Does it really have to be harder or more complicated than that?
nbo
How about?
1 wait for a directional break out/reversal pattern. (Leave it alone, watch and wait)
2 wait for it to pull back. (they always do at some point)
3 When the pull back turns around again - Get In with a smallish stop. (safer place to get in with higher probability of success)
4 Wait for sensible exit signal/target. (moves will either hit a target or eventually run out of steam)
5 When target met or exit signal occurs - Get Out
Solves the stop problem, confirms the direction, gives plenty of room for profits to be bigger than losses.
Does it really have to be harder or more complicated than that?
nbo
stevespray
Experienced member
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NBO2….
We are just messengers reporting and reflecting our own experiences. If it makes things sound hard then they most likely are. If it was easy then most people would give up their day jobs and trade for a living, implicitly they don’t. I’m not trying to knock what you are saying but I’m uncertain at this point whether your points are simply theory or whether they are actually the way you trade and subsequently turn a profit.
I notice that this was your first post – Welcome.
I would point out at this stage that your post relates more to entry criteria than to the actual management of trades once you are in them. To be honest, I personally could write a book called “101 Ways To Enter A Trade”. This, in a sense, and in my opinion, is another false prophet which less experienced traders need to lay to rest. Too many people are interested in ‘quality of signals’ and as a result the search for that ‘holy grail’ begins. This could be one of those points of unlearning that Soc first mentioned. Folk automatically assume that great signals will lead to great profits. Of course what they over-estimate is their ability to manage the position while it is open and that is THE BIG PROBLEM. Remember, a signal to enter a trade is purely a method, there is no system until all aspects of the trading procedures are covered and catered for.
As I pointed out in my previous post, I feel that the evidence I have gathered, for me personally, shows that, the only way to be really successful, is to add in to positions in the hope that a trend is starting or continuing. That is purely my own opinion which is drawn from the facts that I have read about other genuinely successful traders of the last 100 years. In order to profit from such a method a great deal of psychological ‘mish mash’ has to be overcome. I would suggest that even in your method there would be psychological issues which would, sooner or later, have to be dealt with. Examples could be, a run of losing trades which knock confidence in your ability, every time you tighten a stop it gets tripped and you end up closing for pennies or perhaps you find that every so often you end up closing trades just before take off and then have to sit there and watch as you realise that ‘you just missed the big one’. These are all painful emotions. They can not simply be passed off and not dealt with.
If I get a chance over the weekend I’ll try and write a further post on my studies regarding ‘adding to positions’. I want to try and build some positive psychology for people in that area.
Take care,
Steve.
We are just messengers reporting and reflecting our own experiences. If it makes things sound hard then they most likely are. If it was easy then most people would give up their day jobs and trade for a living, implicitly they don’t. I’m not trying to knock what you are saying but I’m uncertain at this point whether your points are simply theory or whether they are actually the way you trade and subsequently turn a profit.
I notice that this was your first post – Welcome.
I would point out at this stage that your post relates more to entry criteria than to the actual management of trades once you are in them. To be honest, I personally could write a book called “101 Ways To Enter A Trade”. This, in a sense, and in my opinion, is another false prophet which less experienced traders need to lay to rest. Too many people are interested in ‘quality of signals’ and as a result the search for that ‘holy grail’ begins. This could be one of those points of unlearning that Soc first mentioned. Folk automatically assume that great signals will lead to great profits. Of course what they over-estimate is their ability to manage the position while it is open and that is THE BIG PROBLEM. Remember, a signal to enter a trade is purely a method, there is no system until all aspects of the trading procedures are covered and catered for.
As I pointed out in my previous post, I feel that the evidence I have gathered, for me personally, shows that, the only way to be really successful, is to add in to positions in the hope that a trend is starting or continuing. That is purely my own opinion which is drawn from the facts that I have read about other genuinely successful traders of the last 100 years. In order to profit from such a method a great deal of psychological ‘mish mash’ has to be overcome. I would suggest that even in your method there would be psychological issues which would, sooner or later, have to be dealt with. Examples could be, a run of losing trades which knock confidence in your ability, every time you tighten a stop it gets tripped and you end up closing for pennies or perhaps you find that every so often you end up closing trades just before take off and then have to sit there and watch as you realise that ‘you just missed the big one’. These are all painful emotions. They can not simply be passed off and not dealt with.
If I get a chance over the weekend I’ll try and write a further post on my studies regarding ‘adding to positions’. I want to try and build some positive psychology for people in that area.
Take care,
Steve.
Gardan
SOCRATES, Hi you may remember me from way back when ever this thread was started. You advised me then to be patient, you may recall. You also advised me to follow the thread to learn and see some real fireworks.
I think I have seen some fireworks as this thread has progressed, but I have to admit the only ones I understand are the ones between members on this board.
The post above by Jumpoff reminds me of the great and simple things I have learnt on this thread as it has grown. I also sincerely thank all the experienced members on this thread who have taken the time to contribute with there time and knowledge.
However when I posted the cry of help initially to experienced traders, to help me and other newbies.
It was for sound practical advice to help us on are way.
There is absolutely no doubt that we have had that in bucket loads and even I understood some of it and again I thank you all.
The truth is I just don't understand most of what you guy's are saying! and there are amazingly large gaps till I do understand something.
The Unlearning bit was quite embarrassing for me as I don't know anything anyway.
All I want to know ,if I do not understand all what you experienced guy's/gal's are talking about at this point (and I have read every post) should I take a taxi?
If this thread is more for the big boys please keep it going so I may re-visit it ,when I'm a bit more grown up.Please don't wait or hold your breath it could be some time.
Thanks Again Gary
You will find that when one starts a thread on the Board, you will probably get some direct answers to the questions put. Thereafter, someone will pick up on others posts and so the thread develops into something the original poster never intended, but as you say it does become interesting, even if you dont understand all the subsequent posts.
I am afraid that is the nature of Bulleting Boards. However, if you keep reading other threads and the various sections I feel sure you will derive great benefit fromt he thoughts of others.
Best wishes
John
SOCRATES, Hi you may remember me from way back when ever this thread was started. You advised me then to be patient, you may recall. You also advised me to follow the thread to learn and see some real fireworks.
I think I have seen some fireworks as this thread has progressed, but I have to admit the only ones I understand are the ones between members on this board.
The post above by Jumpoff reminds me of the great and simple things I have learnt on this thread as it has grown. I also sincerely thank all the experienced members on this thread who have taken the time to contribute with there time and knowledge.
However when I posted the cry of help initially to experienced traders, to help me and other newbies.
It was for sound practical advice to help us on are way.
There is absolutely no doubt that we have had that in bucket loads and even I understood some of it and again I thank you all.
The truth is I just don't understand most of what you guy's are saying! and there are amazingly large gaps till I do understand something.
The Unlearning bit was quite embarrassing for me as I don't know anything anyway.
All I want to know ,if I do not understand all what you experienced guy's/gal's are talking about at this point (and I have read every post) should I take a taxi?
If this thread is more for the big boys please keep it going so I may re-visit it ,when I'm a bit more grown up.Please don't wait or hold your breath it could be some time.
Thanks Again Gary
You will find that when one starts a thread on the Board, you will probably get some direct answers to the questions put. Thereafter, someone will pick up on others posts and so the thread develops into something the original poster never intended, but as you say it does become interesting, even if you dont understand all the subsequent posts.
I am afraid that is the nature of Bulleting Boards. However, if you keep reading other threads and the various sections I feel sure you will derive great benefit fromt he thoughts of others.
Best wishes
John
Nbo
Yes that is putting it simply and very similar to what I do. However the other posts have been discussing the problems associated with trading. Your points are simplicity in themselves and to the point, but to the untrained it could be meaningless or they misunderstand.
What the other posters have been trying to get across IMHO is that you should not run before you can walk.
You need the knowledge before you trade if you do not do this then you do not understand what is happening and most likely make further errors of judgement.
The points you have identified are a method and to produce this you have done so from your knowledge of the market and this has no doubt come from your own study and testing and evaluation to see for yourself that it works for you. Therefore you have followed the advice that the posters have in fact been giving in detail in order to get that message across. Simply put to many are not prepared to do this and try to run before walking and get burnt and this creates emotional baggage to make there progress even more difficult than when they started. They turn into traders of fear. A method takes away that fear.
I also agree with Steve that you have provided the outline but not all the answers. Each component must account for all the problems you may get along the way. Do you keep the same stop at entry through the complete deal or do you apply a trailing stop. Are targets based on previous resistance / support or a figure selected that you are happy with. When is the trend over, you might get a double top form only for it to prove to be a retracement that takes out the nearest stop before continuing.
Steve also refers to the whipsaw element, how often do traders get in have the price move into profit but then return to virtually a nil position and grab at what small amount is left on offer because they feel they have missed earlier profit. Of course they should have had faith in the stop, but what if the stop is taken out only for the price to re-bound and move into profit as first expected. These are issues not covered by your list (although I do like it's simplicity) it is not a complete method / plan and until new traders understand all that can happen and why they need a complete trading plan that will account for what they are going to do when confronted with a whipsaw. Issues such as risk, money management and a number of other areas that become pertinent to them.
Your list focuses on a trend style but what if the market moves into a non trending state, depending on the time frame it is quite likely the trader may have to adapt to the changing conditions so this aspect needs to be included.
Please do not misunderstand me I am not having a pop at you, I actually liked the method and the way it was presented but I do not think it is suitable for someone with little experience it is suitable for those that have the knowledge to understand what you are implying but aware of the areas they would need to address in addition to your list. All factors of the market must be correctly understood and included for in a method and new traders have to learn to understand this only then will they actually apply what you have posted correctly because without it they will not keep to your stop etc..
Out of interest what time frame do you trade.
Regards
Kevin
Yes that is putting it simply and very similar to what I do. However the other posts have been discussing the problems associated with trading. Your points are simplicity in themselves and to the point, but to the untrained it could be meaningless or they misunderstand.
What the other posters have been trying to get across IMHO is that you should not run before you can walk.
You need the knowledge before you trade if you do not do this then you do not understand what is happening and most likely make further errors of judgement.
The points you have identified are a method and to produce this you have done so from your knowledge of the market and this has no doubt come from your own study and testing and evaluation to see for yourself that it works for you. Therefore you have followed the advice that the posters have in fact been giving in detail in order to get that message across. Simply put to many are not prepared to do this and try to run before walking and get burnt and this creates emotional baggage to make there progress even more difficult than when they started. They turn into traders of fear. A method takes away that fear.
I also agree with Steve that you have provided the outline but not all the answers. Each component must account for all the problems you may get along the way. Do you keep the same stop at entry through the complete deal or do you apply a trailing stop. Are targets based on previous resistance / support or a figure selected that you are happy with. When is the trend over, you might get a double top form only for it to prove to be a retracement that takes out the nearest stop before continuing.
Steve also refers to the whipsaw element, how often do traders get in have the price move into profit but then return to virtually a nil position and grab at what small amount is left on offer because they feel they have missed earlier profit. Of course they should have had faith in the stop, but what if the stop is taken out only for the price to re-bound and move into profit as first expected. These are issues not covered by your list (although I do like it's simplicity) it is not a complete method / plan and until new traders understand all that can happen and why they need a complete trading plan that will account for what they are going to do when confronted with a whipsaw. Issues such as risk, money management and a number of other areas that become pertinent to them.
Your list focuses on a trend style but what if the market moves into a non trending state, depending on the time frame it is quite likely the trader may have to adapt to the changing conditions so this aspect needs to be included.
Please do not misunderstand me I am not having a pop at you, I actually liked the method and the way it was presented but I do not think it is suitable for someone with little experience it is suitable for those that have the knowledge to understand what you are implying but aware of the areas they would need to address in addition to your list. All factors of the market must be correctly understood and included for in a method and new traders have to learn to understand this only then will they actually apply what you have posted correctly because without it they will not keep to your stop etc..
Out of interest what time frame do you trade.
Regards
Kevin
Garden
I would stick with it if you can. Carry on with your own research and reading material and continue to go through some of the other threads already mentioned within this thread. You have already seen how important it is to deal with emotions and how they can get in your way to prevent you from doing what you should. We have shown the importance of stops and how they must be rigidly adhered to, not just a fancy that sounds good but when it gets hit you can't keep to it. These are the starting blocks you really need to take hold of.
If there is something you do not understand then consider using the pm I am sure that in most cases when they have time the poster will try to expand for you. I know it will ot be everyone's cup of tea here but read that book by Elder, it will help to get you started and you will understand it but realise you will still have to find your own way and that there is more to consider but I do believe it will be of assistance to you.
You also come to identify those posters who appear to have good advice and are genuine sometimes they will mention something to research. Keep an open mind and include these items in your search for greater understanding and a general broadening of knowledge about the markets.
Hope this helps
All the best
Kevin
I would stick with it if you can. Carry on with your own research and reading material and continue to go through some of the other threads already mentioned within this thread. You have already seen how important it is to deal with emotions and how they can get in your way to prevent you from doing what you should. We have shown the importance of stops and how they must be rigidly adhered to, not just a fancy that sounds good but when it gets hit you can't keep to it. These are the starting blocks you really need to take hold of.
If there is something you do not understand then consider using the pm I am sure that in most cases when they have time the poster will try to expand for you. I know it will ot be everyone's cup of tea here but read that book by Elder, it will help to get you started and you will understand it but realise you will still have to find your own way and that there is more to consider but I do believe it will be of assistance to you.
You also come to identify those posters who appear to have good advice and are genuine sometimes they will mention something to research. Keep an open mind and include these items in your search for greater understanding and a general broadening of knowledge about the markets.
Hope this helps
All the best
Kevin
Steve,
Thank you for the welcome.
The simple strategy above is exactly what it says. Simple. The point is to Keep it Simple. It has worked across all markets for many many years and will continue to work across all markets for many years to come. The reasons it works.
You don't get caught out by fake moves. (a big killer for newbies)
Your stops don't get hammered very often (that process has already been carried out by the pro's)
Your entry is clear.
Your exit is clear.
There is little to do by way of 'trade management'.
The success rate is fairly high.
The failure rate is fairly low.
The winnings average more than the losses average.
These types of set-up occur regularly.
Psychology doesn't enter into it because you consistantly are making money over time.
Its easy to define.
Its easy to explain.
Its easy to understand.
Its easy to identify.
You're trading with the market on the side of the pro's instead of fighting it/them.
You're keeping your risks right down.
Its boring and consistent.
So you don't get every single possible pip out of every single possible move? People who try to do that usually go nuts or have a heart attack trying.
There are only 3 things you can control whilst trading.
When/which way you get in.
When you get out.
How much money you risk.
Outside of that you have no control.
With a simple strategy that consistently works you control the 3 elements you can and let probability do the rest.
It really is that simple!
nbo
Thank you for the welcome.
The simple strategy above is exactly what it says. Simple. The point is to Keep it Simple. It has worked across all markets for many many years and will continue to work across all markets for many years to come. The reasons it works.
You don't get caught out by fake moves. (a big killer for newbies)
Your stops don't get hammered very often (that process has already been carried out by the pro's)
Your entry is clear.
Your exit is clear.
There is little to do by way of 'trade management'.
The success rate is fairly high.
The failure rate is fairly low.
The winnings average more than the losses average.
These types of set-up occur regularly.
Psychology doesn't enter into it because you consistantly are making money over time.
Its easy to define.
Its easy to explain.
Its easy to understand.
Its easy to identify.
You're trading with the market on the side of the pro's instead of fighting it/them.
You're keeping your risks right down.
Its boring and consistent.
So you don't get every single possible pip out of every single possible move? People who try to do that usually go nuts or have a heart attack trying.
There are only 3 things you can control whilst trading.
When/which way you get in.
When you get out.
How much money you risk.
Outside of that you have no control.
With a simple strategy that consistently works you control the 3 elements you can and let probability do the rest.
It really is that simple!
nbo
Kevin,
Try this.
"1 wait for a directional break out/reversal pattern. (Leave it alone, watch and wait)"
Simple Draw 2 lines across the screen. One above all the bars in a cluster and one below. Wait for it to go outside that. You've got a break out.
or
There are a plethora of well documented reversal patterns availble on the web and in tech analysis books. - not hard to look up and learn.
"2 wait for it to pull back. (they always do at some point)"
Your entry is now becoming a deliberate planned event instead of a knee-jerk reaction.
"3 When the pull back turns around again - Get In with a smallish stop. (safer place to get in with higher probability of success)"
As above a deliberate action, planned in advance and waiting the moment to execute as simply described
.
"4 Wait for sensible exit signal/target. (moves will either hit a target or eventually run out of steam)"
Means quite simply wait and do nothing. Either your target (however it is set) will be hit or the move will run completely out of steam. Wait for one of these two to happen. Sit on hands. Make tea. do whatever. Just monitor periodically.
"5 When target met or exit signal occurs - Get Out"
As it says. Either the target will take you out. (whatever that target is.) or the move will grind to a halt. either way you get out.
Making a living out of trading is literally that simple. The vast majority fail because they try to make it more complicated than this and introduce so many things that don't need to be there.
Or try this.
If you consistently enter in the right direction but your stop is consistently taken out. Place your entry order where your stop was and you stop behind that. Leave everything else the same. et voila. Problem solved. Your stop is now better positioned, can be smaller and is less likely to be hit, and you get a bigger slice of the profits because you enetered at a better price!
Simple solutions to simple problems that do not need to be made complicated.
nbo
Try this.
"1 wait for a directional break out/reversal pattern. (Leave it alone, watch and wait)"
Simple Draw 2 lines across the screen. One above all the bars in a cluster and one below. Wait for it to go outside that. You've got a break out.
or
There are a plethora of well documented reversal patterns availble on the web and in tech analysis books. - not hard to look up and learn.
"2 wait for it to pull back. (they always do at some point)"
Your entry is now becoming a deliberate planned event instead of a knee-jerk reaction.
"3 When the pull back turns around again - Get In with a smallish stop. (safer place to get in with higher probability of success)"
As above a deliberate action, planned in advance and waiting the moment to execute as simply described
.
"4 Wait for sensible exit signal/target. (moves will either hit a target or eventually run out of steam)"
Means quite simply wait and do nothing. Either your target (however it is set) will be hit or the move will run completely out of steam. Wait for one of these two to happen. Sit on hands. Make tea. do whatever. Just monitor periodically.
"5 When target met or exit signal occurs - Get Out"
As it says. Either the target will take you out. (whatever that target is.) or the move will grind to a halt. either way you get out.
Making a living out of trading is literally that simple. The vast majority fail because they try to make it more complicated than this and introduce so many things that don't need to be there.
Or try this.
If you consistently enter in the right direction but your stop is consistently taken out. Place your entry order where your stop was and you stop behind that. Leave everything else the same. et voila. Problem solved. Your stop is now better positioned, can be smaller and is less likely to be hit, and you get a bigger slice of the profits because you enetered at a better price!
Simple solutions to simple problems that do not need to be made complicated.
nbo
dbphoenix
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nbo2 said:
As Steve and Kevin have pointed out, this is simple if one has the experience to put it all into context. In fact, it's not all that different from what I do.
But I'm not a beginner.
Let's be a beginner.
What's a "breakout"? What's a "reversal"? What do you mean by "direction"? The lines are going up and down all over the place.
What's a "pull back"? Where does it pull back to? How far? How long do I have to wait?
What do you mean by "turn around"? How do I know when it's turned around until after it's happened? What's a "stop"? What's "smallish"? What kind of stop? What do you mean by "get in"?
You get the idea.
Do this several hundred times with several hundred people and you'll begin to anticipate all of it when you describe something "simple". Then someone will come along and wonder why you make it so complicated.
Nbo
I agree with all your comments and do believe an important feature of the method and the chart set up IS TO KEEP IT SIMPLE. If it becomes complex it can become difficult and disjointed and the trading results start to follow suit.
I made my comments for the benefit of some traders who may not fully comprehend what you display as obvious. For example we all say stop at your stop but many still fail to do this, I WAS ONE OF THEM. I allowed emotions to get the better of me, fear and greed. Only after I fully comprehended this message through the experience of not stopping when I should have and discovering exactly the results you get with such poor discipline. Evaluation displayed that by keeping to those stops the results would have been significantly better.
The method you display is the method I trade so I am not against what you say just that novice traders should take the trouble to fully comprehend each component rather than just say I will put a stop here or there and then they will question it when it is tested. They need to be aware of the emotions and the affects of them in order to deal with them effectively. Understanding the method will produce faith in it in every aspect and then they can apply it and stick to it. Having a plan is one thing but they have to have complete faith in it or they will not maintain the discipline to keep to it.
As I said earlier I am not against your post and I applaud it's simplicity and IMHO this is the way a method should be recorded down to its bare bones when it has been completed. Simple short rules that ensure the focus remains on the correct information you have developed to trade the market through knowledge and relevance.
Regards
Kevin
I agree with all your comments and do believe an important feature of the method and the chart set up IS TO KEEP IT SIMPLE. If it becomes complex it can become difficult and disjointed and the trading results start to follow suit.
I made my comments for the benefit of some traders who may not fully comprehend what you display as obvious. For example we all say stop at your stop but many still fail to do this, I WAS ONE OF THEM. I allowed emotions to get the better of me, fear and greed. Only after I fully comprehended this message through the experience of not stopping when I should have and discovering exactly the results you get with such poor discipline. Evaluation displayed that by keeping to those stops the results would have been significantly better.
The method you display is the method I trade so I am not against what you say just that novice traders should take the trouble to fully comprehend each component rather than just say I will put a stop here or there and then they will question it when it is tested. They need to be aware of the emotions and the affects of them in order to deal with them effectively. Understanding the method will produce faith in it in every aspect and then they can apply it and stick to it. Having a plan is one thing but they have to have complete faith in it or they will not maintain the discipline to keep to it.
As I said earlier I am not against your post and I applaud it's simplicity and IMHO this is the way a method should be recorded down to its bare bones when it has been completed. Simple short rules that ensure the focus remains on the correct information you have developed to trade the market through knowledge and relevance.
Regards
Kevin
LOL
Ya Know, A simple Glossary will answer those things. (in spite of the fact that the terms are self describing by their names. It doesn't take much imagination...)
As to how long/how far? as long/far as it takes surely! All it requires is observation to find out how/far that is.
Why make simple things complicated?
nbo
Ya Know, A simple Glossary will answer those things. (in spite of the fact that the terms are self describing by their names. It doesn't take much imagination...)
As to how long/how far? as long/far as it takes surely! All it requires is observation to find out how/far that is.
Why make simple things complicated?
nbo
Nbo
I forgot to say that obviously you know and understand what to do from all aspects of your trading method but novice traders will not in its present form. There will be questions, a lack of knowledge and understanding by novice traders. It is one of the reasons why so many fail to make progress.
Any published entry method will work and become profitable with a correctly developed method. But every entry method does not work every time. This has to be learnt and fully understood before the method can be applied professionally.
Kevin
I forgot to say that obviously you know and understand what to do from all aspects of your trading method but novice traders will not in its present form. There will be questions, a lack of knowledge and understanding by novice traders. It is one of the reasons why so many fail to make progress.
Any published entry method will work and become profitable with a correctly developed method. But every entry method does not work every time. This has to be learnt and fully understood before the method can be applied professionally.
Kevin
