Calling all "Senior Members T2W" Experienced traders! Help Newbies?

[Gardan]

Kevin

Garden

There are programmes available where you can enter specifics requirements and press the button and hey presto you get a list of companies that meet your requirements either for entry or close to it. It is a matter for you to select the parameters. You then just look and decide which you feel are worthy of further attention. I do not do this because I only trade one instrument but I am aware of traders who do this for swing trading purposes among others.

Kevin

Kevin, I think i have seen them.

Highlighter:
Island Reversal ObV ect ect
Rsi 50- 20 ect ect
Gap in last ect ect
Find head & shoulders ect ect
20-50 moving avrage ect ect.
(Sound like I know what I'm talking about) Trust me I don't.

Is this what you mean and if so do you use them all, or do you have a favourite or have you set your own parameters.

Thanks Gary

 

[nbo2]

Kevin

I can think of many who didn't follow the rules and failed eventually despite remedial training. And environment wasn't necessarily a plus either... They didn't do what the instructions said they should do. "Bye bye" Thud! Bang! (that was the boot followed by the door slamming behind them). Next!

Gardan,

Simple

Get a list of stocks that often give the patterns you're looking for.
Look through them continually until you find one or more that are setting up.
Concentrate on those.
Get the trades away.
Continue the looking through process to find other opportunities.
Monitor those already in a trade.


nbo

 

[barjon]

Kevin.

When that method was first taught to me 'x' years ago, I had little or no market knowledge. It was the first method I ever learned and I was taught to do xyz routinely. I didn't understand it or the markets or very much about anything. I knew how/when to make the trades from what I'd been taught.

That was the first method I was allowed to trade. Gradually over time my knowledge increased and I understood more about what I was doing, and why it worked. But, in the meantime I was at least making my employers profits...

So, no - I didn't devise it - I can't take the credit for that, neither can the people who taught it to me nor those who taught it to them etc... No I didn't understand it either. I just did what I was told and it worked...

nbo

nbo2

i suspect your employer packed a bit more meat around those simple bones before letting you loose on the market

similarly, i suspect that if you gave those simple bones to 100 people to trade in real time there would be wild variations in definitions and i'd be surprised if more than 10 of them entered, set stops and exited at the same time and the same price levels.

not knocking the method, nor the keep it simple principle - just an observation that what seems simple (and obvious on historical charts) can quickly become more complex once you start trying to trade it.

good trading

jon

 

[Gardan]

nbo

Kevin

I can think of many who didn't follow the rules and failed eventually despite remedial training. And environment wasn't necessarily a plus either... They didn't do what the instructions said they should do. "Bye bye" Thud! Bang! (that was the boot followed by the door slamming behind them). Next!

Gardan,

Simple

Get a list of stocks that often give the patterns you're looking for.
Look through them continually until you find one or more that are setting up.
Concentrate on those.
Get the trades away.
Continue the looking through process to find other opportunities.
Monitor those already in a trade.


nbo

Thanks nbo, do you get the initial stocks by flicking through each stock in a market you are interested in. Until you recognise the set up you like. Or do you have fav you monitor all the time.
Suppose the question is how do you get the initial list of stocks.

Thanks

 

[nbo2]

Jon,

Back then rather less than is currently available in most reasonable books these days. (Not to mention the internet!) The principles of bums on seats/numbers game prevailed. Keep the ones that do it and get rid of those that don't, then pack in the knowledge... Crude but effective way of filtering out the ones you want to keep from those you don't...

The cost of that kind of filtering is much less than thoroughly training people who don't/can't/won't make it, even today...

nbo

 

[nbo2]

Gardan,

I don't trade stocks any more. But I used to compile my list by scanning historical charts and counting frequency of setup and assessing quality. If good enough - they went on the list. Did this about once a week...

Today I'd probably use a scanner for the first bit.

nbo

 

[nbo2]

I'll leave the thread alone now. After reading 30-odd pages of making it hard/complicated I felt that re-establishing some basic simplicity. i.e. Simple strategy that works + follow the rules needed to come back to the forefront of everyone's minds.

I hope I have caused no offense in this to anyone.

Thank you for the welcome and I wish you all great/continued success in your careers as traders.

nbo

 

[kevin546]

Garden

I think it would be better to select a group of companies that you feel offer value to this style of trading and time frame you decide to follow. You will need to consider the frequency of signal to see if a simple list of companies will suffice or if you need to widen the search using a scanner system.

Personally I favour trading companies you get a feel for rather than hoping from one to another but thats just a personal view. As for the examples you display I have no knowledge of them but there are various out there. I was signed up with Esignal charts for a while and they had the facility to apply your own system for the search process. Some of these tools either offer you a search on know data or you can produce your own. I think it would be better to define what you want to look for and test it paper trading it first to develop confidence in it.

Nbo

I would have thought knowing you had rules to follow that others required you to follow would have been enough to ensure you stuck to it especially if your job depended on it. This just goes to show how difficult it is, even under conditional trading like this you had failures who would not keep to the rules what chance would a lonely private uninformed 'would be trader' have working on his own with only him or herself to answer to. It shows that in general most new traders are left to themselves and can only develop by learning what the market requires of them to be successful through applying a correct method. There is no one to show them and no one to admonish them if they do not, just the bank balance and that is how the vast majority have to learn.

I think your circumstances were very different and in some ways very fortunate to enter your trading from such a conditional environment.

Regards

Kevin

 

[kevin546]

nbo

Your involvement was very much appreciated.

Best regards

kevin

 

[Gardan]

Kevin/nbo

nbo

Your involvement was very much appreciated.

Best regards

kevin

Yes, Thanks

 

[dbphoenix]

nbo2

i suspect your employer packed a bit more meat around those simple bones before letting you loose on the market

similarly, i suspect that if you gave those simple bones to 100 people to trade in real time there would be wild variations in definitions and i'd be surprised if more than 10 of them entered, set stops and exited at the same time and the same price levels.

not knocking the method, nor the keep it simple principle - just an observation that what seems simple (and obvious on historical charts) can quickly become more complex once you start trying to trade it.

Indeed. And this is at least one place where beginners get into so much troulbe.

No method is so simple that it doesn't require explanation, and if that explanation is done in writing, it looks complicated. The method I posted is about as simple as it gets. And it's profitable. But I'd like to see somebody trade it without asking any questions about it.

My signature at ET says "simplicity is not for sissies". In order to keep it simple, one first has to make it simple. And making it simple involves a bit more than just following a prescription.

And, of course, there's a big difference between "simple" and "easy", but that's another subject.

 

[Gardan]

Kevin

Garden

I think it would be better to select a group of companies that you feel offer value to this style of trading and time frame you decide to follow. You will need to consider the frequency of signal to see if a simple list of companies will suffice or if you need to widen the search using a scanner system.

Personally I favour trading companies you get a feel for rather than hoping from one to another but thats just a personal view. As for the examples you display I have no knowledge of them but there are various out there. I was signed up with Esignal charts for a while and they had the facility to apply your own system for the search process. Some of these tools either offer you a search on know data or you can produce your own. I think it would be better to define what you want to look for and test it paper trading it first to develop confidence in it.

Nbo

I would have thought knowing you had rules to follow that others required you to follow would have been enough to ensure you stuck to it especially if your job depended on it. This just goes to show how difficult it is, even under conditional trading like this you had failures who would not keep to the rules what chance would a lonely private uninformed 'would be trader' have working on his own with only him or herself to answer to. It shows that in general most new traders are left to themselves and can only develop by learning what the market requires of them to be successful through applying a correct method. There is no one to show them and no one to admonish them if they do not, just the bank balance and that is how the vast majority have to learn.

I think your circumstances were very different and in some ways very fortunate to enter your trading from such a conditional environment.

Regards

Kevin

Thanks kevin. I off to,1/2 hol's with the kids, best go finish packing.

Regards Gary

 

[dbphoenix]

but the answers to these questions will usually be personal to the trader - which is why u can give the same rules to 2 traders and they will both have different equity curves at the end of the year.

Which is where the complexity comes in.

I never said trading was hard (though it obviously is to a great many people since nearly all of them lose money at it). To the contrary, trading ought to be and is very simple. It is not, however, simple-minded.

 

[barjon]

Jon,

Back then rather less than is currently available in most reasonable books these days. (Not to mention the internet!) The principles of bums on seats/numbers game prevailed. Keep the ones that do it and get rid of those that don't, then pack in the knowledge... Crude but effective way of filtering out the ones you want to keep from those you don't...

The cost of that kind of filtering is much less than thoroughly training people who don't/can't/won't make it, even today...

nbo

nbo2 - just a feeting visit then, pity

ah, those days - little choice but to keep it simple when you had to draw your own charts and calculate your own indicators (wot indicators!!).

Mind you, what's changed - except the filter is your own bank balance even cruder but just as effective.

good trading

jon

 

[dbphoenix]

For example, there are only three strategies: breakouts, retracements, and reversals. Yet people have spent upwards of $100 or more on trading books which tout "new strategies" which are nothing more than variations of these three but with cutesy-poo names that are irrelevant to the nature of the strategy. Ditto with "patterns".

Trading methods are simple. What makes things complicated is all the baggage the trader brings to the task. If I could get my hands on somebody who'd never even heard of the stock market, much less ever seen a chart, he'd probably be profitable within days.

 

[oatman]

nbo2
I have absolutely no idea how/why a car works. I certainly couldn't build one. Yet, I can drive one...
Are you a good driver?
Or do you think you're a good driver?

 

[SOCRATES]

What few people understand about "simple" is what it takes to reach simple. Olympic diving looks simple. Abstract art looks simple. As do the Ten Commandments.

Once you start teaching this stuff to other people, you'll have a whole new appreciation of "simple".

Ha ! Ha ! Ha ! Yes.

 

[SOCRATES]

There are two buzzwords :~ Simple and Shortcut.

When something is explained in detail, it is described as "giving it spin", by envious or malicious individuals. Spin it is not, it is the proper way to deal with a very complicated mechanical subject with many ramifications and an even more complicated psychological subject and an extremely complicated subject when these two elements are joined up, making it a a nearly impossible subject to master in its totality except for the very few, who posess the right faculties.

But in the end anyalysis it is simple, but the obstacle course that has to be overcome as a necessity to arrive at this ultimate simplicity, creates its own deselection process. This is not intended to be in any way demeaning, but brutally truthful.

That is why many aspire and few are able to ultimately succeed. They persuade themselves it is not necessary to graft at it and oneself, they argue it is there, simple, Ha ! Ha ! Ha ! Shortcuts, don't listen to what Albert has to say, just invalidate what he says, just, you know, there are many ways to skin a cat you know......Shortcuts, Ha ! Ha ! Ha !

If it were not so grevious and dire, it would be funny.

 

[barjon]

........ If I could get my hands on somebody who'd never even heard of the stock market, much less ever seen a chart, he'd probably be profitable within days.

wots the stockmarket and isn't a chart something to do with top of the pops? my phone number is...........

 

[Gardan]

dph

For example, there are only three strategies: breakouts, retracements, and reversals. Yet people have spent upwards of $100 or more on trading books which tout "new strategies" which are nothing more than variations of these three but with cutesy-poo names that are irrelevant to the nature of the strategy. Ditto with "patterns".

Trading methods are simple. What makes things complicated is all the baggage the trader brings to the task. If I could get my hands on somebody who'd never even heard of the stock market, much less ever seen a chart, he'd probably be profitable within days.

Quick, Grab Me........Guess I'm to late?