Brexit and the Consequences

[seekingTruth16]

There has always been a segment of the population -- sometimes a large segment -- that has found refuge and comfort in the past, whether in response to the introduction of the tractor, the locomotive, the automobile, the aeroplane, racial integration, open borders, and so on. They have always been left behind, even those who like American Southerners hang on for more than a century, or those in England who yearn for a return to the class system as it was before WWI. But the rich have an ever-stronger stranglehold on society not seen since the days of Louis XVI. What we are going to do about that remains to be seen. But it is unlikely that events will unfold as usual.

True. Can't disagree, but the feelings are real. I don't think it's wise to ignore them. We have the opportunity to make a life that we can enjoy. A future that's good for us. Fair. Hard work, but with rewards. Not clear how a person can thrive when the landscape is shifting so significantly for him. When he feels uncomfortable or scared in his own country.

Adapt yes. Obviously. But when adaptation means leaving your country of birth, shouldn't we be asking questions whether something is not working quite right?

 

[dbphoenix]

True. Can't disagree, but the feelings are real. I don't think it's wise to ignore them. We have the opportunity to make a life that we can enjoy. A future that's good for us. Fair. Hard work, but with rewards. Not clear how a person can thrive when the landscape is shifting so significantly for him. When he feels uncomfortable or scared in his own country.

Adapt yes. Obviously. But when adaptation means leaving your country of birth, shouldn't we be asking questions whether something is not working quite right?

The situation isn't all that different from that of the Industrial Revolution in the UK, the Civil War in the US, the Bolshevik Revolution in Russia, the dissolution of the Austro-Hungarian Empire et al. Those who can adapt to change will thrive. Those who can't, won't and will instead become internet trolls.

 

[seekingTruth16]

The situation isn't all that different from that of the Industrial Revolution in the UK, the Civil War in the US, the Bolshevik Revolution in Russia, the dissolution of the Austro-Hungarian Empire et al. Those who can adapt to change will thrive. Those who can't, won't and will instead become internet trolls.

I can't argue with you intellectually. I accept you're right, and everything you just said is correct. I can only argue from the heart. And that's something that's hard to defend. But I feel Counter Violent is right, people are tribal, and things will not end nicely. And this did not need to go in this way.

 

[dbphoenix]

No, they won't end nicely. We haven't evolved fast enough. I feel fortunate that I won't be around to see it.

 

[counter_violent]

The situation isn't all that different from that of the Industrial Revolution in the UK, the Civil War in the US, the Bolshevik Revolution in Russia, the dissolution of the Austro-Hungarian Empire et al. Those who can adapt to change will thrive. Those who can't, won't and will instead become internet trolls.

And some of us internet trolls travel widely and discuss the issues of the day with "foreigners", shock horror. The common ground we share is a complete disdain for the EU and their total disregard for the views of the great unwashed.

 

[Splitlink]

I can't argue with you intellectually. I accept you're right, and everything you just said is correct. I can only argue from the heart. And that's something that's hard to defend. But I feel Counter Violent is right, people are tribal, and things will not end nicely. And this did not need to go in this way.

With a referendum result so close this could never end well. With the referendum delaying so long since the result, it will end worse---or never end, at all---because indecision is coming into play.

In Cataluña, the referendum for independence will end in a shambles but, one thing that the Independistas have learnt from the UK referendum and, since they are in government, can put into practice , is that they plan to go independent on October 3.

Such self-confidence is admirable, to say the least.

 

[Pat494]

In a big or small group , the faces change but not much else. Taxes will still be collected and there will be the dissidents moaning. When they get to power they are little different.

 

[Splitlink]

In a big or small group , the faces change but not much else. Taxes will still be collected and there will be the dissidents moaning. When they get to power they are little different.

You are getting old and cynical, Pat. I feel that way, too.

 

[Splitlink]

And some of us internet trolls travel widely and discuss the issues of the day with "foreigners", shock horror. The common ground we share is a complete disdain for the EU and their total disregard for the views of the great unwashed.

Birds of a feather flock together.

 

[Atilla]

The far right might be getting nowhere, but I think you're missing something if you think there isn't a change of sentiment towards uncontrolled migration in the EU. I think you need to travel more and speak to the locals. It doesn't need to be the far right.

I was recently shocked while on holiday, talking to a local, a very nice (not far right) gentleman, who simply saw his future elsewhere, because he felt that the number of arabs coming to his country was too large, and that they were just too different in nature. I was not the same nationality or race as the gentleman, but he saw me as similar in attitude, and yet saw the arabs who had arrived as different. He didn't express any hatred or even suggest they shouldn't be allowed to come, he fully accepted it, he just thought that the peoples were too different to mix in a good way, the national culture was changing in a way he didn't like, and saw his future as having to leave his home country.

I know this doesn't fit with your views of the far-right, racist, anti-immigration folks, but I've found that it's not just one person who has feelings similar to this.


Personally I'm all in favour of immigration, free-movement, I was even in favour of staying in the EU until they have shown themselves to be less than they should be recently. But there is a growing population who are unhappy with the direction things are going in. It might show up as 11% of a vote, but it shouldn't be dismissed. It's real. And if 11% vote, it's more than 11% that feel.

No I'm not missing anything but you are confused as to where you stand if I may put it bluntly.

First point I was referring to US putting 220% tariff on Bombardier short-range aircraft wrt to UK and Canada.

CV true to form responds with Italians facing migrants trying to enter EU borders on boats link. Timsk responds with racial twist.

Point is WTF has migrant into Italy have anything to do with Brex****ters making global trade deals with rest of the world - key point being our very close and special fwiends the yanks???


Second point you talk about being in favour of free movement and migration but then your heart tells you something else. You are a mixed up kid. How are you any different to the different people you perceive when you move.

If we are to take your perspective to its nth degree, people should stay put and not travel or migrate anywhere.


Contrary to migrant fiasco talked up here, people love to travel to all the big cities where most people are predominantly alien to locality.



Whilst I'm on a rant, what the heck is the Catalonian and Kurdish referendum's about then? It's like asking Londoners and only Londoners to brake away from the rest of the UK and become some kind of independent state so they get to keep all their tax revenues and expenditures.

Why bother asking the rest of the country??? People have trully gone ape-**** with their self righteous declarations.

Won't be long before every tom dick and harry takes back control in the free world and thus shutting it off to all other non-look alikes.

Do you non-intellectuals not see this

 

[dbphoenix]

So much would be solved if only the world were to set aside one large country where everyone is white and only white people can live there. Or even visit. Then everybody else could get on with the future.

 

[Pat494]

So much would be solved if only the world were to set aside one large country where everyone is white and only white people can live there. Or even visit. Then everybody else could get on with the future.

Do you mean a white only, black only, brown only and oriental only areas ? And then the rest of the globe is mixed ?
Might work I suppose until 1 group falls so far behind they want change or start fighting to expand and enslave others. Or racial cleansing. What about mixed races ? Do they have to live in the rest of the world ?

I don't think the racial problem is as important as competing political areas.

 

[dbphoenix]

No, just one big country where all the white people can live without having to worry about contaminating themselves through contact with anyone who isn't white. Especially those who aren't white and who are also poor.

 

[Pat494]

No, just one big country where all the white people can live without having to worry about contaminating themselves through contact with anyone who isn't white. Especially those who aren't white and who are also poor.

I thought better of you db or are you being funny ?

How about an area designated for racialists only of any colour ? They could leave when they had come to their senses,
Oh and one small matter of whites being dyed black, brown or yellow. Same for the others so that they enter as a different colour. Especially enforced for racial crimes and double the length of sentence ............

lol

 

[counter_violent]

Do you non-intellectuals not see this

We have Atilla surrounded. All he needs to do is sign up! How long can he hold out?

https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/200606

 

[Atilla]

We have Atilla surrounded. All he needs to do is sign up! How long can he hold out?

https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/200606

Greens forever in Brighton.


You keep dreaming and taking your vitamins

 

[counter_violent]

c_v - your petition needs publicity and for that I suspect you need a social media marketing expert. Find one who's in favour of Brexit and you're away!

In the meantime, how about bringing it to the attention Laura Kuenssberg and her colleagues at the BBC - letting them know that mentioning the petition in their reports presents them with the perfect opportunity to redress the balance and quash the accusation that the institution is pro-remain and anything but impartial. I imagine this is quite doable for those of you who use Twitter and Facebook etc. Needless to say, I don't!
Tim.

Laura Kuenssberg and the beeb are all part of the corrupt establishment. There is no point engaging them at all.

What I have been doing is preaching to the converted. A spot of targeted marketing on social media. After all, the petition is simply a numbers game.
I'm learning quite a bit and adapting the message as I go along. Performance translates into signings.

Now at 600
https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/200606

Here's the map
http://petitionmap.unboxedconsulting.com/?petition=200606

 

[counter_violent]

Now @ 725

Don't think we saw anything like this in the Scottish independence vote

Spanish police deployed to stop the referendum. What next, the army !

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-41452174

 

[Splitlink]

Now @ 725

Don't think we saw anything like this in the Scottish independence vote

Spanish police deployed to stop the referendum. What next, the army !

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-41452174

I've mentioned this before, cv. Spain and England were a mutual joining together of two states. Scotland's referendum was not illegal and Cameron knew it.

Cataluña and the rest of Spain signed a Constitution after Franco's death. They cannot go into independence on their own decision, legally. The independistas hold up the Scottish referendum as an example of British democracy but they are not correct in that the Catalan case is the same.

Like the Brexit crowd, those Catalans who are in favour of a Yes vote have been BSd by the ones at the top. They have, also, told Catalans that Cataluña will remain in the EU. That is not the case, either, unless Brussels changes its mind.

Once again, strange things happen and I am going to wait for the result.

 

[counter_violent]

I've mentioned this before, cv. Spain and England were a mutual joining together of two states. Scotland's referendum was not illegal and Cameron knew it.

Cataluña and the rest of Spain signed a Constitution after Franco's death. They cannot go into independence on their own decision, legally. The independistas hold up the Scottish referendum as an example of British democracy but they are not correct in that the Catalan case is the same.

Like the Brexit crowd, those Catalans who are in favour of a Yes vote have been BSd by the ones at the top. They have, also, told Catalans that Cataluña will remain in the EU. That is not the case, either, unless Brussels changes its mind.

Once again, strange things happen and I am going to wait for the result.

That's right, Scotland's referendum was not illegal. In fact, they had to get permission from parliament to hold it in the first place.

It doesn't much matter whether the Calalonian situation is legal or otherwise. Stopping them from having free will is the real issue. As we have seen numerous times, pissing people off and stopping them from doing what they want will not end well.