Boiler Room Scams

[Aggie]

This advanced fee scam sounds like priority venture management set up under a new name , its about time these people were caught, before they do untold damage to some more poor people and leave them devastated get them before they move on.

 

[experienced_it_all]

What about legit business? Any ideas?

I have seen so many scams on here that it makes me wonder how it is possible to expand a legit business. How can I find new investors and assure them I am not out to steal their money? The problem I see is that the scam companies can project a better image than legit companies because they basically have 100% profit margin! They can afford to put money into virtual offices, phone lines, web sites, - using stocks listed on international markets, etc.

If I can´t afford to create a fancy image because I want to put investors money into projects that make money (strange concept huh?!?), how can I convince people that I have a better opportunity since image seems to be everything when selling a concept?

Is there some type of key information that shows people you will do right by them?

Transparency??? (most scam companies can be transparent because restricted stocks are legal, even the dilution that drives the stock down to par value is legal!?!?!?!!!)

Any ideas? Because I am not going to let these guys win! If legit people give up, everyone will lose!

 

[anley]

Experienced

How about you setup a Ltd company here in the UK with your name registered etc
How about you bank with a UK bank
How about you list you name, contact number (proper landline) and proper physical address here in the UK
How about your website is owned by the company and the address its registered to is the same as the company address.

None of the boiler rooms do any of the above which amazes me why people would do business with them in the first place. Rule numbver 1 in business - know who you're dealing with....

All of those things go a long way to suggesting you're legit as if you do steal money (not that it's your plan to) it won't be hard to find you.

 

[experienced_it_all]

Experienced

How about you setup a Ltd company here in the UK with your name registered etc
How about you bank with a UK bank
How about you list you name, contact number (proper landline) and proper physical address here in the UK
How about your website is owned by the company and the address its registered to is the same as the company address.

None of the boiler rooms do any of the above which amazes me why people would do business with them in the first place. Rule numbver 1 in business - know who you're dealing with....

All of those things go a long way to suggesting you're legit as if you do steal money (not that it's your plan to) it won't be hard to find you.

Thanks for your post Anley...

I agree for the most part. I do have all of this for my company - the same name/address are on the website, company documents, official documents, landline (not forwarded), company name registered - except not in the U.K (I am not doing business in the U.K. and not exclusive to U.K. investors).

But it is really the point of my rant! Those things can be accomplished easily by scammers.

The problem I see is that most of the scam companies actually do this and even present a much bigger and better image. They can sell U.S./Frankfurt listed stocks, which are large companies with everything you mentioned, and money is sent to a major U.S./U.K. bank (Barclays, Citibank, etc.) But there is no real protection in this because of Reg. S/D/144 rules that have loopholes. At the end of the day, clients are left holding a piece of paper from the company, not the "broker" and it is not illegal for a company to tank. Worthless and legal!

I use offshore jurisdictions/not huge banks that are not well known... all for privacy and legal tax structure. It is for the benefit of the owners and to make money for everyone involved. But if you do not know these things, it looks shady.

In fact, at one point I even offered to have funds sent to my own account instead of the company account to show people that if I was trying to steal they could take action with a 2 minute phone call! (but I feel it is a bit ridiculous to go that far as well and just ends up looking unprofessional)

I am not looking for investors here, just bringing up the point that just because you find a company that is from the U.K./U.S. with major name banks, fancy buildings and secretaries, etc. and "International Advisors from Switzerland!", It does not mean you are any more protected than with a small start-up company.

The contract you sign always states that you can lose all of your money, and if you invest on image alone, you most likely will lose every penny (and more if your not careful).

 

[kenmar 1952]

Unfortunately for you as a legitimate trader you are tarred with the same brush if you cold call. A rule of thumb is that if you are contacted by someone you did not contact first, then it is a scam. You might miss an honest broker but I doubt it. What amazes me is that they contact the same people over & over again, they have no morals at all, & they are prepared to work hard for a small initial investment in order presumably to get more later.

One of the fanvorite scams is to get an investment in a share, then the share price rises & they say "time to get out of this one and in to another one", usually with a fee involved or an additional investment. On paper you made a profit. Get them to send you the money for the sale and tell them you will reinvest after the cash hits your account and see what happens. If nothing else at least you will limit your loses.

 

[cayte_m]

Once of friends has bought around 15k worth of shares in this Bio defence company, through a company called Britannia Swiss, or something along those lines. Its all seems a bit too good to be true to me, he bought them at $4 a share, are they being scammed? he has expressed his concern to the company about the whole thing but they are keen to reassure and see excited about the whole thing. Is there any way this could be legit?
Any advice would be great.
Thanks.

 

[Gold31]

Even at the best of times , and those are scarce, an investor cannot rely on a stock broker even with the best of credentials. The investor must do his own research , check and double check the validity of ANY share on offer, the commissions being paid and the type of licence granted by the
Regulator. Some of the licenced 'cowboys' have merely approval as a 'sales agent' though they
portray themselves as 'High Street Stock Brokers' . Even though they PROMISE in writing
an increase of from 100% to 300% in one to three years they do a runner when the maturity
time arrives and at that stage the share is down to almost zero value. The funds passed by an
escrow ends up in Hong Kong and the gangster there eventually is incarcerated but Regulators or the police unable to trace whereabout of the funds. So it needs to be widely published that 'Stock Brokers ' are only interested in the commission which is rarely disclosed and the ordinary
punter fails to research. In the case mentioned above the 'scammers' were taking 60% commission .
I am not being cynical - just warning to be extremely careful.

 

[Droyston]

Once of friends has bought around 15k worth of shares in this Bio defence company, through a company called Britannia Swiss, or something along those lines. Its all seems a bit too good to be true to me, he bought them at $4 a share, are they being scammed? he has expressed his concern to the company about the whole thing but they are keen to reassure and see excited about the whole thing. Is there any way this could be legit?
Any advice would be great.
Thanks.

Cayte
Sorry to say, from the brief notes, it looks like a scam.
Did the person from Britannia Swiss cold call him?
Did they suggest this as a first investment to demonstrate what they were able to do for him?
Did they say this company is about to be floated?
Did they suggest he would make a huge profit in a short period?
Did he send his money offshore?
If you want a list of other checks, read back on this site. It's very useful.
If the answer to any of the above questions is 'yes' tell your friend to write off the money, don't give any more to anybody either offering to buy his shares from him or suggesting he invests in more, or suggesting he invests the huge (no-existent)'profit' from this transaction in another company. They sometimes give a name of a happy investor so you can phone them to check out how great they are. That person is just another one of their scummy friends and is only contactable on a mobile which can't be traced back to them.
If he gets out of this with only a 15k loss he should count himself lucky.

 

[experienced_it_all]

Once of friends has bought around 15k worth of shares in this Bio defence company, through a company called Britannia Swiss, or something along those lines. Its all seems a bit too good to be true to me, he bought them at $4 a share, are they being scammed? he has expressed his concern to the company about the whole thing but they are keen to reassure and see excited about the whole thing. Is there any way this could be legit?
Any advice would be great.
Thanks.

It is a scam. Just looking at the web page (britanniaswissequities.com?) and with a little research you can see this company is not legit. What is the name of the Bio defense company ? Where is it listed? I assume it is an OTC stock or worse, probably with a restriction.

I agree with Droyston, if he gets out with just the 15K loss he will be lucky.

 

[anley]

Sorry but he won't get out with a penny as he's been 100% scammed.

Next time your friend should spend 20 minutes on some research as in this case it would have saved him £15,000. The money by the way will probably have been spent on living the high life, hookers, coke, 5 star suite for the night etc.

And of course they're 'reassuring him' that's what scammers do, they lie in the hope that he'll put up more money. So beware because they're going to be calling him again with other 'investments' and ideas. Probably along the lines that the company he bought is about to be taken over but he needs to pay £4,000 into escrow as a deposit which will be refunded. But again, it's all lies, because they want to steal.

 

[ns1000]

1) Why a British citizen/stockbroker ? in London was not charged by the UK police
2) If Hertzberg was a British Stockbroker why he was not flagged by the FSA
3) If he was trading as a company why the company name is not disclosed and his British address.

1) He lived in Hong Kong where his bank accounts were, so was correctly charged in Hong Kong. The only British connections were his passport and the victims' residence

2) He wasn't working in the UK. The FSA had no jurisdiction.

3) Search his name in Google, and you find the company name, along with the fact that he didn't live in Britain.

 

[experienced_it_all]

I understand each case is different, but I think people should realize that most of the "SCAMS" are not really illegal scams at all. People just get caught up in the excitement of making over-night profits, they listen to the third-party "Broker" (who will have nothing to do with the actually stock or contract) and they sign documents that state,

"Escrow is not responsible for partial or full loss...., There is no current market ... there is no plan for a market...., The stock is restricted and the buyer does not wish to sell.... And here is the best one - Because of administrative costs...etc... issuer receives less than full value...dilution will occur...no less than 30% of the net proceeds will be received... YOU HAVE NOT BEEN SOLICITED BY ANYONE FROM THIS COMPANY... These stocks have not been registered.... You can lose all of your money (AND YOU WILL!)"

or something similar is in the contract. This means the company or individuals are covered legally. Your contract is between YOU and the COMPANY, having nothing to do with the "Broker". I have a LAW background and if you sign a contract like that you basically made an agreement that these people can do whatever they want with your money. If you try and fight them legally you will just waste more time and money.

Again, each case is unique and some people just flat out steal, but I think if most people go back and check the contract closely they will find a bunch of clauses that translate into giving up all rights to their money

I think most of us have got taken in one way or another in our lives, always better just to learn from our mistakes and move on, than to dwell on it. IMHO.

 

[looker1]

Experienced

How about you setup a Ltd company here in the UK with your name registered etc
How about you bank with a UK bank
How about you list you name, contact number (proper landline) and proper physical address here in the UK
How about your website is owned by the company and the address its registered to is the same as the company address.

None of the boiler rooms do any of the above which amazes me why people would do business with them in the first place. Rule numbver 1 in business - know who you're dealing with....

All of those things go a long way to suggesting you're legit as if you do steal money (not that it's your plan to) it won't be hard to find you.

Hi Anley / Everyone,

Apologies for my lack of posting on the board, have been away. In answer to your points there from my understanding of what goes on, its pretty simple.

The early boiler rooms seemed to be owned by US or Canadian citizens, this made it very difficult to set up UK companies and the like given residency issues and the like.

Offshore jurisdictions carry alot of attraction from the tax free element, another carrot used in the selling process.

If it were a british national stting up the account, any investigation into them would be pretty quick because of the lack of cross jurisdiction problems.

The reality is, if the UK fraud squad where that good they wouldnt be needed!

In Scandanavia, people are taught how to invest at school, and the benefits of it, not just the potential rise in value of the stock, but also the ability to write off investments for tax purposes, something that is not easily done in the UK. I was caught during my time working outside the UK and having a pretty good understanding of these things. Sadly, there is no such thing as a free lunch. These half assed bandits will stoop to any level to steal money, even if it means taking extensive risks.

I am in the process of putting a blog together to promote the warnings on boiler rooms around the world from all of the government websites I can find, I will post it as soon as I have it up, it is a huge amount of work, but I hope to be able to stream it automatically once it is up and running, updates will be available by e-mail and the like. If anyone has any suggestions and input, it would be gratefully received!

 

[ADRIAN123456]

i keep asking myself .... for one who is normally so carefully .......to send money to these thieves.
I'm quickly loosing my mind. not slowly loosing my mind
Morgan Financial Advisors ..... Are they still in business.????
They have probably retired by now, but I have to keep working.

 

[Droyston]

i keep asking myself .... for one who is normally so carefully .......to send money to these thieves.
I'm quickly loosing my mind. not slowly loosing my mind
Morgan Financial Advisors ..... Are they still in business.????
They have probably retired by now, but I have to keep working.

I remember that feeling. I lost all of my savings and have to carry on working. Don't let them destroy your mind as well. There are thousands of us who consider ourselves to be careful and have had successful business careers, yet have been caught. These scum can hook in anybody who is unfortunate enough to come in contact with them when they are off guard. They come across as very knowledgeable and trustworthy and 90% of us trust people more than we should. I'm now fairly sure my name was given to them by somebody else I trusted too much - I just need to prove it and he won't be walking for a while. Have you thought about where they got your name from in the first place? For sure they didn't just get your name out of the local directory.The best thing to do is to remain angry and focus on finding these scum. I hope that one day you will catch up with them. I'm getting closer.

 

[ADRIAN123456]

Hi Drayston,
They got my mobile phone no from a trade web site I am registered on like "EC21 " or similar site . They appear to divide the businesses into countries of origin. Then they get Chinese phonecall operators to ring and line up the victim for a phone call from a "stockbroker " (= thief ). Line up is a good word because they are fishing, constantly casting their fishing line to see who is interested. The Chinese operator who made the first call asked for my business name that was only available on these web trade with this mobile phone no.

 

[Gold31]

Jerome Hertzberg and & entourage - IS Intersecurities et al

1) He lived in Hong Kong where his bank accounts were, so was correctly charged in Hong Kong. The only British connections were his passport and the victims' residence

2) He wasn't working in the UK. The FSA had no jurisdiction.

3) Search his name in Google, and you find the company name, along with the fact that he didn't live in Britain.

I feel I must respond to this post which seems to excuse the Regulator & police

a) It is reported that Hertzberg is a StockBroker and a UK citizen operating in London.
However it has not been revealed the name and address of this outfit in London or from where it was operating so 'In thePublic Interest 'should any poster have the detail it would be very useful.
If I were a British citizen holding a British passport I would expect help from the
British wherever located . Likewise if I incur the wrath of the law I would expect to
be sanctioned by the legal system where I am a citizen. Where was Hertzberg registered to pay his lawful Tax ?

b) He was'nt working in the UK - but he is reported as a Stockbroker in London UK .
So when he opened the 4 Bank Accounts in Hong Kong and money flowed to the tune
of something like a phenomal $90m - did the Hong Kong banks not prick up their ears ?
The regulators were informed of something untoward in 2006 and the SCAM continued
until Hertzberg was binned by the Hong Kong police Nov 2008 .

c) Have gIoogled Hertzberg and many others but have not been able to get the info
merntioned above !

It is good to see action like this and the authorities are to be applauded . However,
I have not noticed any achievement in really punishing the Scammers in Europe & Hong Hong.
For instances in a related case in the USA the SEC have been granted Emergency Relief
from the Illinois District Court including , temporary restraining order, Asset Freeze,
Repatriation, temporary penny stock bar, and prohibiting Defendants from travelling outside USA until they comply. This is some comfort to those who have been scammed.
Has similar action been taken by UK , Hong Kong, or Germany IN THE PUBLIC INTEREST ?

 

[richard.vandeloo]

I just want to say I appreciate the work you are doing in this forum.

I would just like to remind you if you are and Australian citizen and would like to file a complaint about online fraud, you can do so here.

If you have have been contacted by a suspicious company, we would appreciate your information as we are trying to become more active in shutting down these fraudulent operations.

Please email: [email protected] with any information you may have about potential fraudulent cold calling operations.

Thank you.

 

[anley]

Good for you Richard and good luck.

And if you're a low-life boiler room thief reading this post then tick-tock-tick-tock the net 'might' be closing in on you.

Also, don't lose any sleep about the potential knock at your door late at night/very early in the morning as it might just be the Police. Or perhaps it will be from someone you've stolen from and they've come to seek retribution.........

 

[ns1000]

I just want to say I appreciate the work you are doing in this forum.

I would just like to remind you if you are and Australian citizen and would like to file a complaint about online fraud, you can do so here.

If you have have been contacted by a suspicious company, we would appreciate your information as we are trying to become more active in shutting down these fraudulent operations.

Please email: [email protected] with any information you may have about potential fraudulent cold calling operations.

Thank you.

Richard,

You seem to be implying that you work for Asic, but don't have use Asic email address. Why would you use a gmail one?

I would urge anyone not to send this guy any details at all by email if they don't want them harvested for more scams.It's not hard to find teh name of someone working at Asic and use it for a scam. If you want to inform Asic, do it directly, not to a gmail adress.