Just HOW do you make money in the markets?

This is a discussion on Just HOW do you make money in the markets? within the Trading Systems forums, part of the Methods category; Originally Posted by dcraig1 No but you do need to test any idea that you believe for whatever reason may ...

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Old Jan 4, 2010, 4:07am   #31
 
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Re: Just HOW do you make money in the markets?

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Originally Posted by dcraig1 View Post
No but you do need to test any idea that you believe for whatever reason may have merit. If you sit on your **** and wait for trading statements to point you in the right direction you will get absolutely nowhere.
They say that 90% of people that attempt to trade fail. I'd say the percentage on forums like this is much, much higher. Certainly higher than 99.9%.

I see little merit in testing things that sound good written by people that are more than likely losing money.

I think the time would be much better spent sitting on your **** than following the advice from 99.9% of the people touting trading advice on the internet. That includes this site.
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Old Jan 4, 2010, 4:24am   #32
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Re: Just HOW do you make money in the markets?

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Originally Posted by DionysusToast View Post
I see little merit in testing things that sound good written by people that are more than likely losing money.
That is why you need to develop a critical capacity to eliminate most of the garbage. And that requires some knowledge. People lose money for all sorts of reasons, but doesn't mean that everything they say is of no value at all. You need a critical attitude and understanding and reading trading statements is no route to that. I'm all in favour of demanding trading statements from "gurus" touting their services.

For my part, I take absolutely no notice whatsoever of most of the trading advice on here or any other site. That includes things like pin bars, fib ratios, harmonic thingies, magic numbers in general, candlestick patterns and general hand waving about price action when it cannot be nailed down to something specific. It's taken some time to reach that point. Any many of the things I reject I have tested and found to be of no value.

If I do see something out of the ordinary and I feel has some plausibility I will look into it a bit further.

Last edited by dcraig1; Jan 4, 2010 at 4:32am.
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Old Jan 4, 2010, 5:00am   #33
 
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Re: Just HOW do you make money in the markets?

I agree in the main with you, esp on all the TA stuff. People want to use TA in isolation because it removes the need to think and use a bit of discretion. It also leaves people with the idea that there can be a one size fits all approach.

For instance, how many times have we heard 'and reverse the methods for shorts' - downward moves do not necessarily move identically to upward ones, so why treat them the same ?

On these expert threads & systems - how many times do we hear people discuss obvious things that may impact the trade (consider stocks for instance)....

Enter on a technical signal UNLESS the company has an earnings announcement the next day/week.
Buy unless the company is soon to complete acquisition of another company.
Don't buy close to dividend payment date.
Enter short on a Goldman Sachs downgrade.
Exit position prior to an FOMC day.
Buy on low volume months where brokers will be pushing clients to trade so that they can hit their commission thresholds.

You don't see any of this stuff & it shows clearly that the people selling stock based systems are generally full of crap.

People just want to surf, find a set of simple rules, implement them and make a gazillion dollars. They do this despite the fact that there is zero evidence that anyone before them has done the same.

Really - who wants to spend the few weeks it takes to learn how the markets work when you can spend years testing out crappy TA based systems from the internet ?
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Old Jan 4, 2010, 5:22am   #34
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Re: Just HOW do you make money in the markets?

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For instance, how many times have we heard 'and reverse the methods for shorts' - downward moves do not necessarily move identically to upward ones, so why treat them the same ?
Yup. The short side of the market is different from the long.

I did a little experiment of selecting a random portfolio of stocks from SPX, buying on stock CCI < -100 selling on CCI > 100 over five years of history where the SPX ended about where it started. It actually easily outperformed the SPX itself, though with hideous drawdowns.

I reversed the logic shorting on CCI > 100, covering on CCI < -100. Results were just horrible.

You can probably choose any fast oscillator and get the same result.

It is actually not very hard to show that short and long sides are different. Just look at the volatility.
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Old Jan 4, 2010, 6:06am   #35
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Re: Just HOW do you make money in the markets?

I have, always, used top and bottom patterns differently. I can never see a downward pullback in the same way as one in an uptrend. I've tried turning them upside down---no good!

Last edited by Splitlink; Jan 4, 2010 at 6:19am.
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Old Jan 4, 2010, 11:18am   #36
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Re: Just HOW do you make money in the markets?

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People just want to surf, find a set of simple rules, implement them and make a gazillion dollars. They do this despite the fact that there is zero evidence that anyone before them has done the same.
And that statement there, IMO, is why there are some folk on this thread saying "stay off the 'net" and some are saying "wtf? the 'net is a great place to learn to trade" (emphasis on LEARN!). Because if you predicate that yes, SOME people just want to surf etc etc, then yeah, of course they are wasting their time, and they are going to end up disappointed. I just don't think it applies to every new trader. There are quite a few novices, here and elsewhere, that already know that, and have come here for specific advice or help with some part of their own learning process. And (again IMO), they can get that here.

keep on truckin
Tess
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Old Jan 4, 2010, 4:29pm   #37
 
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Re: Just HOW do you make money in the markets?

Highlander1 started this thread
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Hello,
I'm trying to figure out which route to go to take a shot at making consistent money trading. I've been reading a lot of these posts here, and basically it seems like there are quite a few opinions on how NOT to make money. For instance: day trading-no way 'cause your computer/system/execution/bankroll etc... can't compete with the big boys & market makers; buying a canned system (i.e. "AbleTrend")-no way, 'cause if it was that simple everyone would be doing it, or, too expensive and trend following using EMA MA's is just as good & a lot cheaper; using " 'bots " for a fully automated system-no way, Star Treks' Mr. Data would have a hard time designing a good one;

And on and on and on...

So everyone, is ANYONE making money, and how?

I'm thinking a swing trading time frame, to help eliminate the execution headaches with active intraday trading; seems like it has become a high stakes video game rather than a exercise in strategic thinking. Options maybe?

Thanks in advance for your input!


Wow! And I thought trading the markets was going to be brutal.
The battles on this website rival those in Congress!
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Old Jan 4, 2010, 4:42pm   #38
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Re: Just HOW do you make money in the markets?

[QUOTE=Highlander1;1018026]So everyone, is ANYONE making money, and how?


I am, volatility = opportunity.
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Old Jan 5, 2010, 5:38am   #39
 
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Re: Just HOW do you make money in the markets?

Highlander1 started this thread Care to elaborate? Are you trading options and using high volatility to sell? Or are you just talking about wide swings in stock prices for regular trading?
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Old Jan 6, 2010, 11:20am   #40
 
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Re: Just HOW do you make money in the markets?

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Originally Posted by zupcon View Post
There's at least 3 of us on this thread who understand why its not such a great idea. Why would you wish to confuse someone with noise ?, its irresponsible to mislead people in that way.
Make that 4 !
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Old Jan 6, 2010, 11:35am   #41
 
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Re: Just HOW do you make money in the markets?

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Originally Posted by dimsdaletraders View Post
And that statement there, IMO, is why there are some folk on this thread saying "stay off the 'net" and some are saying "wtf? the 'net is a great place to learn to trade" (emphasis on LEARN!). Because if you predicate that yes, SOME people just want to surf etc etc, then yeah, of course they are wasting their time, and they are going to end up disappointed. I just don't think it applies to every new trader. There are quite a few novices, here and elsewhere, that already know that, and have come here for specific advice or help with some part of their own learning process. And (again IMO), they can get that here.

keep on truckin
Tess
With the greatest of respect you've been here 8 weeks. I will repeat that the problem with this site or any internet forum not just about trading is that they're populated by know it alls.

I personally know about 15 guys from this website, hand on heart probably about 4 of them make consistent money probably another 4 make money but in spurts when discipline is maintained and the remaining 7 just can't do it.

Ironically the guys in the losing group post the most "helpful" comments on T2W and the guys making consistent money couldn't give a f u c k. If they log on to to T2W anymore it's just for "lulz"

Please trust me on this and realise that everything that glistens isn't neccessarily gold. You will need a very strong BULLSIHT Detector for this website and after 8 weeks you just aren't gonna have one.

I'm sure it's the same with any internet based forum be it on cars, computers etc etc. Without naming names one of the T2W Legends lives in a counci flat on housing benefits and I've had this seperatley verified.
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Thanks! The following members like this post: Paul71 , zupcon , Splitlink , dimsdaletraders , trendie
Old Jan 6, 2010, 12:12pm   #42
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Re: Just HOW do you make money in the markets?

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Originally Posted by ceydababy View Post
With the greatest of respect you've been here 8 weeks. I will repeat that the problem with this site or any internet forum not just about trading is that they're populated by know it alls.

I personally know about 15 guys from this website, hand on heart probably about 4 of them make consistent money probably another 4 make money but in spurts when discipline is maintained and the remaining 7 just can't do it.

Ironically the guys in the losing group post the most "helpful" comments on T2W and the guys making consistent money couldn't give a f u c k. If they log on to to T2W anymore it's just for "lulz"

Please trust me on this and realise that everything that glistens isn't neccessarily gold. You will need a very strong BULLSIHT Detector for this website and after 8 weeks you just aren't gonna have one.

I'm sure it's the same with any internet based forum be it on cars, computers etc etc. Without naming names one of the T2W Legends lives in a counci flat on housing benefits and I've had this seperatley verified.


This post is how i imagine things to be, great post. Really helpful people are usually rubbish at anything, lol. At the moment i'm snowed in, i can't get out of my council flat, so it's cheap cider and cat food for me all day whilst 'scalping' the eur/dol. Lulz.
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Old Jan 6, 2010, 12:25pm   #43
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Re: Just HOW do you make money in the markets?

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Originally Posted by ceydababy View Post
With the greatest of respect you've been here 8 weeks. I will repeat that the problem with this site or any internet forum not just about trading is that they're populated by know it alls.

I personally know about 15 guys from this website, hand on heart probably about 4 of them make consistent money probably another 4 make money but in spurts when discipline is maintained and the remaining 7 just can't do it.

Ironically the guys in the losing group post the most "helpful" comments on T2W and the guys making consistent money couldn't give a f u c k. If they log on to to T2W anymore it's just for "lulz"

Please trust me on this and realise that everything that glistens isn't neccessarily gold. You will need a very strong BULLSIHT Detector for this website and after 8 weeks you just aren't gonna have one.

I'm sure it's the same with any internet based forum be it on cars, computers etc etc. Without naming names one of the T2W Legends lives in a counci flat on housing benefits and I've had this seperatley verified.
If you know 15 guys then I expect that that is fairly common on this site. I, personally, know no one because of where I live and, also, I prefer anonomity. Nevertheless, I think that you are right in what you say. This site is ego driven and a big pinch of salt is needed to get the right advice.

If I was, truly, honest with myself I would say that the main reason for posting on here is to communicate in English while I am at the computer. I'm sure that I get more good information at the same time and I hope that I have been able to give some.

Split
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Old Jan 6, 2010, 12:36pm   #44
 
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Re: Just HOW do you make money in the markets?

The head of fixed income for a hedge fund pops in here as does another hedge fund guy who trades currencies. So this website does attract the kind of people you might want to mentor you or take advice from

However, you have to find them amongst the Wasp's, KillPhil's and Spanish89's of this world and once you've found them hope they're gonna help you out !

Bon Chance
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Old Jan 6, 2010, 12:40pm   #45
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Re: Just HOW do you make money in the markets?

You will also find BBMAC and newtron bomb and Mr Charts

Last edited by gamma; Jan 6, 2010 at 2:55pm.
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