my journal 2

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Old Jul 9, 2010, 10:26pm   #1001
 
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re: my journal 2

travis started this thread Well, thank you for the feedback. You didn't divulge about your family but you shared with us that trick about poker. I know what you mean by self-discipline. Among the other problems, I can't resist impulses, especially lately. I have gotten so impatient that I can't even wait windows to reboot without getting irritated. Well, let's keep in touch on this journal - maybe you'll want to share more in the future. I do have problems, but don't forget my objective is automated trading right now (also that's what I wanted some of my dad's money for), so I am not worried about my failure as a discretionary trader. In fact in the past few months, I've tried to quit it altogether (ever since I started this journal), rather than trying to learn it. I've started this journal to learn what was wrong with me - and it worked. I didn't know I was a compulsive gambler until recently.
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Old Jul 10, 2010, 12:06am   #1002
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re: my journal 2

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Originally Posted by travis View Post
Well, thank you for the feedback. You didn't divulge about your family but you shared with us that trick about poker. I know what you mean by self-discipline. Among the other problems, I can't resist impulses, especially lately. I have gotten so impatient that I can't even wait windows to reboot without getting irritated. Well, let's keep in touch on this journal - maybe you'll want to share more in the future. I do have problems, but don't forget my objective is automated trading right now (also that's what I wanted some of my dad's money for), so I am not worried about my failure as a discretionary trader. In fact in the past few months, I've tried to quit it altogether (ever since I started this journal), rather than trying to learn it. I've started this journal to learn what was wrong with me - and it worked. I didn't know I was a compulsive gambler until recently.
Yea my goal is automated trading. I dont see the point in discretionary trading when im trading off pretty much a fixed idea, which could be automated, and the fact that for every trade i see i will be missing 5 similar trades. That can be a good thing though. One thing i do that helps me lose track of my winnings because i think sometimes you may be up like 2.3k for the month for example and you think that you only want to risk 300 max is stupid but does play on you alot. Know what you are up or down for the month can mess with your trading, so what i do is everytime i make a winning trade of say 500, i will take out 350 or any amount up to 500, and if i lose 500 i will add an amount up to 500 into my account. I try to lose track of whether i'm up or down for the day, week or month. No goals for the month of 10%, just trades that either win or lose. Your head will know if you're up for the month, but not how much. I generally find that i'm up and i dont feel the need to make the money back if i lose first day of the month. If my account is at 40k at the start of the month and i look at it in 2 weeks time and its 41.5k i wont know if i'm up 1.5k or not. I'll check in 3 months time to see how i'm doing, adding up the withdrawals, deposits, profits and losses. I play 10 tables at a time, if i lose my 20$ on one table i go to another table. I'll find that on one table i'll have 100$ on one table and lose on 3 tables. I feel like i'm not doing well but im up 40$. It's like cutting your losses short and running your profits. It works in poker too. You have your bad days though, when luck doesnt go your way. Look for tables with high average pot sizes, normally people calling with crap. You will lose sometimes but percentages win eventually.
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Old Jul 10, 2010, 1:09am   #1003
 
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re: my journal 2

travis started this thread Yeah, I am a big fan of diversification as well. I know it should play in my favor, but the problem is that with a small capital you can't diversify, and you're encouraged to take bigger risks to get a bigger capital, and that way it never grows. That's what happened to me until here. Among the many causes of my gambling there was also an urge to increase my capital.
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Old Jul 10, 2010, 6:36am   #1004
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re: my journal 2

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Yeah, I am a big fan of diversification as well. I know it should play in my favor, but the problem is that with a small capital you can't diversify, and you're encouraged to take bigger risks to get a bigger capital, and that way it never grows. That's what happened to me until here. Among the many causes of my gambling there was also an urge to increase my capital.
That's where you fail. Get some good capital together first. 20k minimum. If you cant then don't trade. I wouldnt recommend anyone else trading 20k to begin with probably like 2k max, but i think you're at the stage where you need this amount to progress.
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Old Jul 10, 2010, 10:09am   #1005
 
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re: my journal 2

travis started this thread I've had a capital of 20k and even 30k before, and it often came from starting with a few thousands, but I still felt pressure to make more money and make it faster, and this lead to discretionary trading, and blowing out accounts.

You see, as I wrote before, my parents and everyone, even I, agree on the fact that to quit my job I'd need to have a capital of at least 500k, and then I would have to set it aside (not even invest it). And the more I dislike my job and the city I am living in, the more I have been rushing to that 500k, sometimes rushing things worked (I doubled my account for several months in a row), but inevitably, taking these huge risks, lead to blowing out my account once every few months. And this is just the good last 2 years I am talking about, thanks to automated trading, because, before automated trading, I was only trading discretionary (while developing the systems) and blowing out my account practically every month, continuously, ever since 1997, yet never seeing any doubling of capital: it was just going down from the start to the end. I just lost everything over and over again. Usually went from a few thousands to 0, over and over again.

Also, and I am again referring to the last two years, I could not take the systems' drawdown. When I came home and found a 1000 dollars loss by the systems, or even just 500 dollars, I'd engage in revenge trading to make it back. Sometimes it worked, and sometimes it didn't, and when it didn't, I got even more upset. I take losses personally. I take everything personally (it offended me when you wrote I have a "weak personality"), even a neighbour slamming the door, which he/she did right now. I get offended easily, and I am intolerant. I am a control freak. Ideally, I'd like to have the world under control and to be able to kill people I don't like and who bother me, or at least make them disappear. The first people on my list are the neighbours.
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Last edited by travis; Jul 10, 2010 at 12:28pm.
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Old Jul 10, 2010, 3:06pm   #1006
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re: my journal 2

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Originally Posted by travis View Post
I've had a capital of 20k and even 30k before, and it often came from starting with a few thousands, but I still felt pressure to make more money and make it faster, and this lead to discretionary trading, and blowing out accounts.

You see, as I wrote before, my parents and everyone, even I, agree on the fact that to quit my job I'd need to have a capital of at least 500k, and then I would have to set it aside (not even invest it). And the more I dislike my job and the city I am living in, the more I have been rushing to that 500k, sometimes rushing things worked (I doubled my account for several months in a row), but inevitably, taking these huge risks, lead to blowing out my account once every few months. And this is just the good last 2 years I am talking about, thanks to automated trading, because, before automated trading, I was only trading discretionary (while developing the systems) and blowing out my account practically every month, continuously, ever since 1997, yet never seeing any doubling of capital: it was just going down from the start to the end. I just lost everything over and over again. Usually went from a few thousands to 0, over and over again.

Also, and I am again referring to the last two years, I could not take the systems' drawdown. When I came home and found a 1000 dollars loss by the systems, or even just 500 dollars, I'd engage in revenge trading to make it back. Sometimes it worked, and sometimes it didn't, and when it didn't, I got even more upset. I take losses personally. I take everything personally (it offended me when you wrote I have a "weak personality"), even a neighbour slamming the door, which he/she did right now. I get offended easily, and I am intolerant. I am a control freak. Ideally, I'd like to have the world under control and to be able to kill people I don't like and who bother me, or at least make them disappear. The first people on my list are the neighbours.
Where's the little voice in your head telling you not to revenge trade? That should grow everytime you do it. Mine does. Well there you have it, you need 500k to progress not 20k. What does that tell you? Get your automated system to work on a small amount? The goal isnt to make money but show you can make a return consistently. Dont even look at it like earning a living off it, but just a project? Then you can work out how to turn it into a hedge fund or get people to invest in you. Even i would if you could prove you make consistent returns.
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Old Jul 10, 2010, 3:56pm   #1007
 
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re: my journal 2

Travis is like Sissyphus, doomed to roll a huge rock up a steep hill, but before he can reach the top of the hill, the rock will always roll back down, forcing him to begin again.

We try to tell him either not to roll the rock, or how he can roll it successfully, but up till now, no-one has managed.
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Old Jul 10, 2010, 4:11pm   #1008
 
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re: my journal 2

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Where's the little voice in your head telling you not to revenge trade? That should grow everytime you do it. Mine does. Well there you have it, you need 500k to progress not 20k. What does that tell you? Get your automated system to work on a small amount? The goal isnt to make money but show you can make a return consistently. Dont even look at it like earning a living off it, but just a project? Then you can work out how to turn it into a hedge fund or get people to invest in you. Even i would if you could prove you make consistent returns.
Yes, thanks for the offer. As a matter of fact, right now that's exactly what's happening. I got in touch with someone else reading this journal, who's investing in my systems right now. I knew it from the start, and it's happened as I knew it would happened: while trading the systems with someone else's money, the urge to trade discretionary was much less, and I was able to resist it: the urge to be reliable/responsible and keep my word was much stronger than the urge to gamble. Interestingly, I was trading the same systems for someone else and, on another server, for my account. Two weeks ago, there was quite a bit of a drawdown in the managed caused by my systems (and by the unusual markets). In my account, instead, there could have been less of a drawdown because I second-guessed my systems from the start and entered at a better price, but instead of losing less, as was going to happen, I kept that same trade open longer and lost more. Then, because of that disappointment, I engaged in revenge trading... in short the managed account experienced a drawdown, and my account was blown out.

Regarding that little voice in my head, it never grew, I never heard any voice - if anything I heard a voice saying "**** them all". That's the sick side of me. There's something irrational and defective in my behaviour, just like in many other humans: some people drink themselves to death, others smoke... others abuse their children (like my dad)... the difference with trading is that it makes you realize faster that you are hurting yourself. You can't keep on saying that you trade to make money, if you're constantly losing money. Sooner or later you have to stop, even before understanding why you are doing it. I still don't know why I behaved the way I behaved: now I know there was some compulsion/compulsiveness elements to it. I thought I was trading to make money, or at least to learn to make money, but after 13 years, it's obviously not a good explanation, or at least not the whole explanation.
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Old Jul 10, 2010, 4:12pm   #1009
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re: my journal 2

Quote:
Originally Posted by Adamus View Post
Travis is like Sissyphus, doomed to roll a huge rock up a steep hill, but before he can reach the top of the hill, the rock will always roll back down, forcing him to begin again.

We try to tell him either not to roll the rock, or how he can roll it successfully, but up till now, no-one has managed.
The rock just gets bigger and bigger each year, if you don't continue to grow your balance. It's like world's strongest man when they pick up the atlas balls, if you dont get the last ball up first time then it becomes increasingly more difficult to pick it up. You need a reality check Travis. 1k a month is better than +2,+2,+2,+2,+2,+2,+2,+2,+2,+2,+2, -22. Risk 1%-2% per trade. You're not better than that. This is what most successful traders do. I'm sure alot of them have gone through the same stupidity as all of us risking more. How much can you make a month realistically using 1%-2% pre trade per month?
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Old Jul 10, 2010, 4:15pm   #1010
 
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re: my journal 2

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Adamus View Post
Travis is like Sissyphus, doomed to roll a huge rock up a steep hill, but before he can reach the top of the hill, the rock will always roll back down, forcing him to begin again.

We try to tell him either not to roll the rock, or how he can roll it successfully, but up till now, no-one has managed.
Yes, that's a very good point. So far I seem doomed to keep on making unrealistic and therefore self-defeating efforts. Thanks to this journal at least I am opening my eyes to what the **** is up with me. I definitely belong in the category of compulsive gamblers so far. At the same time, I am a very hard-working mechanical trader. But the gambling side of me has been overwhelming.
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