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This is a discussion on my journal within the Trading Journals forums, part of the Reception category; Originally Posted by travis It's much easier to not act than to fix your faulty behavior. [...] Applying the stoploss ...

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Old Oct 8, 2009, 1:39pm   #185
Joined Apr 2008
Originally Posted by travis View Post
It's much easier to not act than to fix your faulty behavior. [...] Applying the stoploss and quitting a losing trade makes sense.
Good job!! Not acting is also a choice, a valid position in the markets. It is a key element of trader discipline, being able to sit on your hands when required (and there's a lot of that.) And you've just demonstrated to yourself that you can in fact do this. So, one minor victory won. Now next time, do the same, and reinforce the new pattern of behaviour. "Cut your losses short, let your winners run [to their targets]" etc. Once again, well done!

BTW, I've not kept fully up to date with your posts in the last week or 2 (so apologies if this comment is out of place somehow), but regarding other people and that looking at them etc/friend/enemy thing, here's a suggestion: try occassionally smiling or winking at them when you notice them looking at you. In at least some (many) cases I bet you'll get smiles back and if not, then they're morose grumps and it's their problem if they don't want to be friendly. Either way you've lost nothing... (Just a thought/suggestion!)
The truly heroic traders are not the ones that take outsized bets with their capital, but ones that assiduously remove risk from the process and live to trade and win day after day after day.
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Old Oct 8, 2009, 1:54pm   #186
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Yamato started this thread Wow, finally a post in this desert. Thank you for your feedback and compliments.

Your suggestion about smiling is good, but it feels so bad to smile at people and not be returned that smile, that it makes it undesirable to risk. It's as if you told me to start hitting on every beautiful girl I meet. Sure, at the most I'll be rejected and I won't lose any money, but it's not a "costless" behaviour. In our actions we don't only take into account financial losses but also losses in terms of pride. As a consequence I don't hit on any girls, ever. And the same principle applies to smiling at people who are acting rudely to me. And it also applies to not begging for money when you need money. We'd rather starve and walk home, than beg for money in street to ride the subway home or buy a hot dog, and yet this would only cost us in terms of pride. If you needed a dollar, would you ask for it? Didn't you ever need a dollar? Did you ask for it to strangers in the street? If you agree with me on this, it means you also have pride and interferes with the efficiency of your choices.

On the other hand pride is one of the things that cost me so much money in the markets ("revenge trades" and so on), so maybe here's a situation where I should change my behaviour. But, as I said, I'd rather avoid situations that make me lose money or other things because of how I am, than try to fix myself, because I know how hard it is.

Basically, as far as trading, I fixed this "pride problem" by not trading discretionary and letting my systems do it. And as far social relationships, I've been solving the "pride problem" (that makes me feel disrespected quite often) by avoiding people. The method is far more efficient and profitable in the first case than in the second one. Simply because it's hard to avoid people. I can't make this idiot in front me disappear at my wish, and I can't do it for the others either.

Also, I agree with all your quotes, in my interpretation of them.

Last edited by Yamato; Oct 8, 2009 at 2:08pm.
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Old Oct 8, 2009, 4:21pm   #187
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Yamato started this thread Once again today I was in a very tough spot. I opened my trading platform and saw 2 trades open. One was making 500 and the other one was losing 500. More or less, to simplify. I was tempted as usual to close at least one of them and to tamper with my systems. I would have closed the EUR, that was making 500. And I would have kept open the CL, that was losing 500.

But then I thought: look at how they've been moving and how I know them to usually interact. They rise and fall together. Yet I was long on one and short on the other, and I thought: this is like a perfect insurance, in case the system is wrong: why should I close one of them with the risk of it being the wrong one?

Well, this time I was wrong. The 500 of the EUR turned, an hour later, into -100, and the -500 of the CL turned into +1000. I would have been right in closing the EUR. But if I did, and instead the EUR kept falling and the CL didn't reverse but kept falling as well? I would have been stuck with a closed gain of 500 and a loss rising to -2000 or even more.

Also, if today I I started messing and tampering with my systems, this would have ultimately lead - not today but certainly in the next few days - to doing something wrong enough to blow out my account again: most likely doubling up on a losing trade (so much that I could never afford to be wrong on that one trade: that's my most frequent and harmful mistake/illusion, based on my martingale tendencies but not backed by enough money).

That alone is enough to not start tampering again. Let alone the fact that my tampering usually just causes either losses, or no overall gain. To summarize, my tampering on average doesn't bring profits, and occasionally makes me blow out my account. So - no matter how many inviting situations/mirages for tampering I see - I must resist the urge because, if not today, certainly within the next ten trading days, it will bring me to ruin: it always has in the past.

However, having said all this, it feels really uneasy, uncomfortable and unnatural. Doing nothing, having to do nothing makes me feel uncomfortable. I don't know how many more adjectives I can write without lacking precision in my description of the feeling I experience. I basically feel like doing something. I also feel that it just cannot be possible that this automated thing does better than me, and some more things I can't put into words right now. Things that make me go against it, rebel against my sitting and doing nothing.

But until the principle holds, and until I don't break The Rule of not tampering at all with the systems, then the habit will follow and will reinforce itself and make it easier and easier. But the powers within me that lead me to rebel against this rule are still very alive. I don't know what they are and what makes me act against this rule, but I know there's something that does, and that it's not dead.

And if it gets strong enough to make me break that rule even once, then all hell will break loose, and I have no idea what may happen to my account - it could even go below the required margin within a few hours. I've seen myself do incredible and sick things like opening up several CL contracts, as money as my capital allowed me, to recover from losses, and usually it worked, but when such things did not work I blew out my account. And one cannot have such a trading that usually works and sometimes makes him blow out his account. I cannot allow myself to do what's proven not to work. Not after 12 years of this masochistic ****.

Last edited by Yamato; Oct 8, 2009 at 4:39pm.
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Old Oct 8, 2009, 6:36pm   #188
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Old Oct 9, 2009, 4:45am   #189
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Originally Posted by travis View Post
Once again today I was in a very tough spot. I opened my trading platform and saw 2 trades open. One was making 500 and the other one was losing 500. More or less, to simplify. I was tempted as usual to close at least one of them and to tamper with my systems. I would have closed the EUR, that was making 500. And I would have kept open the CL, that was losing 500.
Sounds like this song too, i think.

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Old Oct 9, 2009, 7:12am   #190
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Yamato started this thread Well, hello to my other reader. I don't know about that singer - she's a bit too loud for me.

For the record, those two trades ended like this. The EUR that was +700 ended as -400. The CL which was -500 ended as +2000. One would have thought that being correlated and being short on one and long on the other, I would just end the day with neither losses nor gains, but it never works like this. One guy wanted to run more than the other guy wanted to fall. Only that I didn't know who and when, but the system sensed it. Once again, I trusted my system, and I made money.

And this morning, I thought of a new system for sleeping well. If you wake up in the middle of the night, you must not get up or turn the lights on. That way, chances are much higher that you'll go to sleep again, whether at the time you wake up it seems possible or not. This morning it worked.
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Old Oct 9, 2009, 8:13am   #191
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Yamato started this thread Ok, here I am at work. In front of the moron with the radio (why can't this guy just die?). In a better mood than yesterday because today I've slept ok. Also, the boss has taken some work load off of me, because there's some functions of our deparment that have been moved to others. I am almost free, with time to do nothing, but as it usually happens I will now focus on what's wrong rather than being happy about what's right. For example, right now I am wishing death upon the guy with the radio, which from now on I will call "Bickering", because it actually resembles his real last name, and because I should start bickering with this Bickering sonuvabitch, but I don't because I am polite, which he is not. Ok, now he's whistling, too. The same songs every day, ****ty ones, and he whistles them as well. He sucks. Swine.

Last edited by Yamato; Oct 9, 2009 at 8:25am.
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Old Oct 9, 2009, 1:34pm   #192
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Hey buddy
Been trading 10am-9pm so i had a break (Well... Tried to) from trading to relax and chill out; but ended up having to do annoying tasks just as applying to univerisity and writing a personal statement and building a computer; But i also got a puppy so thats nice.

You been allowing your system to work out?

I've also been working into the night developing a system;
Focused on backtesting it across as many time-frames, market conditions and time-periods as possible to see if the system had a genuine edge or just random based on the data and i found that over all the data, on all the different charts and markets that it has a 1% positive expectancy on invested amount (non-leveraged markets) so i'm relatively pleased with the system; its structure is based in logic (a rare novelity in the market) and therefore i'm quite pleased.
Trying to automate it but i'm pretty rubbish so probably going to pay someone to do it for me because i simply do not trust my abilities to make it robust.

One things thats annoying me is that although i've based the system on logic; its results suggest that it has a predictive capability (As all succesful systems must have) and i can't really quite think why because fundamentally, it doesn't affect supply and demand; But i suppose it identifies situations and conditions where it is more likely for the continuation of demand than supply for example - However it does trouble me abit as to why it works but i based it on the 'logic' of fading human emotions on large scale movements (Large scale being relative of time-frame) so i guess it works because it opposes the 95% losers mentality.
Anyway, i don't know if your interested but i thought maybe you could look over the system and have a look at it, identify weaknesses and where it can be improved. I haven't curve-fitted it at all to data; i made the system before i actually checked the charts. Don't worry if your too busy or can't be bothered, its just i'm unexperienced in systems and an alternative opinion from an expert would be nice You could use it to if its up to your standards.

x Hope your not tampering with your system and letting it work.
I'm on a boat mother****er.

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