Trading is easy - making money is hard

This is a discussion on Trading is easy - making money is hard within the General Trading Chat forums, part of the Reception category; Originally Posted by wh92stang My big losses have come on crude. I am limiting myself in the amount of contracts ...

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Old Mar 5, 2010, 6:00pm   #33
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Re: Trading is easy - making money is hard

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Originally Posted by wh92stang View Post
My big losses have come on crude. I am limiting myself in the amount of contracts now. Crude is so hard because it makes so many fakeouts one way or the other, but the times it is not a fakeout can be huge moves in a matter of seconds.
I day trade/intra day trade currencies. However, I also trade crude, but only off the 4hr/ daily. Perhaps if you take a longer term view/up your TFs you won't recognise the symptoms you refer to...? You'll need bigger stops and you may have to alter your TA to cater specifically for this security's different behaviour/patterns but it's a good security to trade and with IG the spread is 4-5 atm...
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Old Mar 5, 2010, 6:23pm   #34
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Re: Trading is easy - making money is hard

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Originally Posted by Black Swan View Post
I day trade/intra day trade currencies. However, I also trade crude, but only off the 4hr/ daily. Perhaps if you take a longer term view/up your TFs you won't recognise the symptoms you refer to...? You'll need bigger stops and you may have to alter your TA to cater specifically for this security's different behaviour/patterns but it's a good security to trade and with IG the spread is 4-5 atm...
Also take trades mainly in the afternoon with U S session.
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Old Mar 5, 2010, 6:25pm   #35
 
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Re: Trading is easy - making money is hard

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Originally Posted by N Rothschild View Post
one of the reasons i stopped day trading and swing/posistion trade now. mainly because you dont get caught up in the moment so much, what could be 5mins to think about a trade while day trading, could be a week or so to ponder your position while position trading. certainly helps!
Interesting but could you not get so much info that you end up confused and doubting your own analysis?

Obviously it's different for everyone.
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Old Mar 5, 2010, 9:24pm   #36
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Re: Trading is easy - making money is hard

wh92stang started this thread Thanks everyone for the suggestions and relating your experiences. Much appreciated. I'll begin my new more disciplined trading Monday. I think a very important point is to never go into a trade without a plan, and once you are in a trade, never deviate from your plan (at least as far as moving your max loss point). Never average into a losing trade UNLESS that was your plan from the beginning (i.e. take 1/2 position now, and if it falls X points buy the rest of the position).
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Old Mar 5, 2010, 10:50pm   #37
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Re: Trading is easy - making money is hard

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Originally Posted by wh92stang View Post
Thanks everyone for the suggestions and relating your experiences. Much appreciated. I'll begin my new more disciplined trading Monday. I think a very important point is to never go into a trade without a plan, and once you are in a trade, never deviate from your plan (at least as far as moving your max loss point). Never average into a losing trade UNLESS that was your plan from the beginning (i.e. take 1/2 position now, and if it falls X points buy the rest of the position).
Your success may be due to luck or lucky runs on crude,just make sure it is not the case,it could be worst thing to happen to a trader.A few luck runs and trader believes he is a pro.

Just tread very slowly
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Old Mar 19, 2010, 11:50am   #38
 
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Re: Trading is easy - making money is hard

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Old Mar 23, 2010, 1:49am   #39
 
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Re: Trading is easy - making money is hard

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It's been one full year now of daytrading full time, and I am at the point where I am very confident in my trading abilities, and find it almost easy to make a consistent, reasonable profit day in and day out. HOWEVER, I am still losing money overall.

Every time I tie together a consistent profitable run (sometimes as much as 10-15 days straight of winning) I find myself taking more and more risk and eventually I give back all of my profits and then some. Is this common amongst those of you who trade full time? What I'm saying is if you give me a $10,000 account and say make $200 today with less than $200 max drawdown I'd say there's a 90% chance I can do it. But if you just put $10,000 into an account and let me do what I want with it, I might run it up to $12,000 over the course of 2 weeks. Then I'll say why $200/day, I can double my position sizes and make $400/day. Next thing I know I'll find my self on the wrong side of a trade that I believe will come back to me, double down, and it takes off even further against me and I'll lose all of my gains and then some. All on one really bad trade that I was significantly overleveraged on.

I've done this about 3 times now and need to stop before I run out of money to trade with. Anybody else have or had this problem and solved it?
Yes, I've had the same problem and here's how I solved it: I quit discretionary trading and opted for automated trading.

I've been trading for over 12 years. For the first 10 years, the experience you described wasn't the case with me, because I almost always lost, for several reasons: wrong broker, wrong instruments, wrong strategy.

After solving those problems, I still didn't become profitable, and, for the past 2 years, I've been exactly in the situation you describe: I'd win for 2 straight weeks or so, and then, in two days, lose everything I had made and more. I guess because of wrong money management, but also, after a while, I'd start screwing up on the strategy itself, because I can't keep my impulses under control, and because, if the strategy is discretionary, it is not defined clearly and univocally enough to resist any trading urges. I double up on losers because I get mad and irrational. I stop waiting for the right opportunity, either because I am mad for having lost money and want to make it back quickly, or too confident and excited for having succeeded. In discretionary trading, there's when to enter, when to exit, and how much to bet. Those are the three things you consistently have to do correctly in order to succeed, but "correctly" doesn't mean "successfully": you don't win every time just because you're doing things rationally. Well, for self-control problems which I couldn't solve, I cannot even do those three things rationally. And I am not saying I can trade rationally for 2 weeks and then stop. I can trade rationally for maybe a couple of days at the most, then start pushing my luck more and more and sooner or later I blow out my account. And it's pointless to keep on trying, after over 12 years. So I quit and now I just focus on automated trading, which is so much easier. Actually I sometimes wonder why I didn't quit sooner, when I am so much better at automated trading. The reason is that I was taught to do things that challenged me, and this seemed like a challenge I could conquer. But I was wrong, I couldn't fix my mind, and it now makes sense to quit my efforts to learn to trade discretionary, because the point of this is to make money and not to challenge oneself.

With discretionary trading I have not had a single profitable month within the 12 years I have been trading. With automated trading, it tends to be the contrary, because there's no impulses to worry about, the strategy is a good one because it's been back-tested and forward-tested. Everything seems to be perfect. It really makes you wonder why isn't everyone doing it. Partly because it seems too easy, and so some people don't even try it because they think it's an illusion. But mostly I think it's because it requires a lot of work, and most of those who try it, stop before doing what's required. I don't even know if I've done what's required because I haven't made any money with it yet (actually I have made it but then lost it with discretionary trading). Certainly for me it's much easier to make money with automated trading than discretionary trading.

Last edited by Yamato; Mar 23, 2010 at 2:39am.
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Old Mar 23, 2010, 4:47am   #40
 
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Re: Trading is easy - making money is hard

oh, I really want to learn trading, dealing with stocks, hope I will have such opportunity in the future, then, I will come here to share your experiences about how to make money
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