Trading is easy - making money is hard

This is a discussion on Trading is easy - making money is hard within the General Trading Chat forums, part of the Reception category; Originally Posted by oildaytrader Most pussies think they are ready to trade in one year.All these pussycats are S and ...

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Old Mar 4, 2010, 2:19pm   #9
Joined Jan 2009
Re: Trading is easy - making money is hard

wh92stang started this thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by oildaytrader View Post
Most pussies think they are ready to trade in one year.All these pussycats are S and P traders ,counter trend monkeys,support and resistance traders /random zone traders and swingers on Tarzan's rope.

Clicking a mouse button and placing a buy or sell order isn't trading,it is gambling buy is black and sell is red, your broker did not tell you that.You need knowledge and skill before clicking the mouse.

All these gamblers who are not professional traders but gamblers.

Professional don't trade every day, and some days do not need to trade at all.Those who rely on a daily wage are f**cked up traders who often trade without an edge.They will only see true profitable set ups two or three times a week, the rest is gambling.

It will take several years to be consistently profitable.

Does that help?
I agree that professional traders only trade truly profitable setups, but that doesn't mean someone cannot trade every day and be a professional trader. Some professionals have an edge scalping quick moves every single day. But I do understand your point. Wait for true setups, anything else is gambling.
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Old Mar 4, 2010, 2:29pm   #10
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Re: Trading is easy - making money is hard

Quote:
Originally Posted by wh92stang View Post
I agree that professional traders only trade truly profitable setups, but that doesn't mean someone cannot trade every day and be a professional trader. Some professionals have an edge scalping quick moves every single day. But I do understand your point. Wait for true setups, anything else is gambling.
If you trade twice a week on each instrument, look for high probability entries and set ups you will be fine.Professionals don't scalp ,only mugs who get scalped.

I don't know what instruments you trade, but you should get an average one trade per day to make 40 points daily on average.These set ups give high profits.
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Old Mar 4, 2010, 2:56pm   #11
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Re: Trading is easy - making money is hard

wh92stang started this thread I mainly trade Crude oil futures and EurUsd.
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Old Mar 4, 2010, 3:23pm   #12
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Re: Trading is easy - making money is hard

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Originally Posted by oildaytrader View Post
If you trade twice a week on each instrument, look for high probability entries and set ups you will be fine.

Professionals don't scalp ,only mugs who get scalped.
Well mate I have the highest respect for your mechanical trading, and I think that the advice you're giving him is wise, but it's not the only way to go about it is it.

Everyones gotta figure out what works for them right.

If you talk with Tom who was at Futex there they have some of the biggest players in the S&P's who are pure scalpers, as were most of their predecessors on the floor or their later off-floor brethren like Paul Rotter who has made 50 - 60 million €uros / year for over a decade scalping the bund.

This guy here was a consistent loser until he started scalping:

http://www.trade2win.com/boards/gene...one-month.html

So while I agree with your point that for most it's much more sensible to trade off of higher time frames providing fewer high probability opportunities per week giving you more time to think things over, at the end of the day you'll have to do what provides the best mesh between your needs and personality which may well be diametrically opposed to what makes up the girl / guy next to you right.

If cutting losses very quickly poses no problems for you and profits start burning holes in your pockets pretty soon odds I'd say are pretty much against you that you'll succeed as a position trader, you just won't have the patience.

I think that's the biggest challenge in trading as in life, figuring out who you are, and what you want, two of the most important issues most probably remain clueless about for the remainder of their days on this planet I'd wager.

Which usually results in ending up where one didn't want to.

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Old Mar 4, 2010, 3:28pm   #13
 
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Re: Trading is easy - making money is hard

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I was thinking of another idea that I think might help. Each day on the calendar when I am done trading write down my final profit/loss for the day as well as my maximum intraday drawdown. Then have my girlfriend check it every night. I think that might help me from doing anything stupid because I have to show someone else my results no matter what, which would make me less likely to blow 10% of my capital in one day. Basically someone other than myself holding me accountable.
Create a journal in the journal thread. Writing down your day and stakes, positions and stop losses etc can give you an education in itself. As trading can be very dynamic we forget the previous day with the present day do to the intensity and overload! You would learn greatly from this and mo doubt others can learn from your gains and mistakes too!

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And Masq, I do need to use fixed stops. I've used mental stops because I hate placing physical ones, but that gets me in trouble more than anything
Ironically be very carefull when deploying stops. I can't stress enough how much the stop loss topic is blown out off proportion.....all people read is stop loss, stop loss, stop loss! Yes it can save you but it doesn't make you a better trader for it. Many traders read the stop loss stuff and think aaaahhh ok, i'll whack it right here! lol They generally place stop losses incorrectly: not enough breathing space, too tight and traders don't even tend to know what ATR is, which is absolutely ironic. ATR - average true range is the average movement of your market over a given time and this can help in deciding where a comfortable stop loss should be!

Please read the following:

http://www.trade2win.com/boards/us-i...ml#post1051562

It is not a perfect book answer but should give you an insight into being carefull with stops and not thinking suddenly that stop losses will be your perfect answer. When I see your scenario - stake sizes and over trading would be the bigger problem - stop losses would be one of the secondary ones.



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Old Mar 4, 2010, 4:38pm   #14
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Re: Trading is easy - making money is hard

[QUOTE=User;1071612]Create a journal in the journal thread. Writing down your day and stakes, positions and stop losses etc can give you an education in itself. As trading can be very dynamic we forget the previous day with the present day do to the intensity and overload! You would learn greatly from this and mo doubt others can learn from your gains and mistakes too!


sound advice, providing it doesn't affect your trading it might be worth keeping an open an honest journal for t2w at large to view and it might help set you on the straight and narrow. who knows maybe you'll pick up some jems from people who've faced the same problems themselves and managed to conquer them.
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Old Mar 4, 2010, 5:04pm   #15
Joined Mar 2010
Re: Trading is easy - making money is hard

This thread in particular has helped me immensely, even though I am only just barely starting out in my trading life. Can anyone help me develop a sound trading PLAN, as I've heard on these forums but have yet to embark on?

Thanks!
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Old Mar 4, 2010, 5:05pm   #16
 
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Re: Trading is easy - making money is hard

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Originally Posted by wh92stang View Post
I agree that professional traders only trade truly profitable setups, but that doesn't mean someone cannot trade every day and be a professional trader. Some professionals have an edge scalping quick moves every single day. But I do understand your point. Wait for true setups, anything else is gambling.
I day trade only, and have done for over a decade, I never under any circumstances keep a trade open over night, I trade FX only and focus on 2 pairings, I regard myself as a short term momentum trader, not a scalper and look to trade 2 or 3 times a day maximum with consistency. I trade a set up, which is simple, allows me to enter and exit trades with ease and little thought, more mechanical, based on my set up I suppose, I trade set stops and limits, never add to a losing in the hope I will get it back, I take the losses along with the wins, I trade 1:2 risk /reward. I record the statistics of every trade taken and those not taken to maintain a statistical database of my trading to enable me to be on the top of my game at all times.

Don't get greedy it has an uncanny knack of biting you when you least expect it, if you want to increase your exposure, do it gradually and within managed and sustainable limits.

Just my 2 penneth, good luck
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