New Betfair Markets

Lord Flasheart

Lord Flasheart

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Just spent the last two hrs lookin at Betfairs new and old markets.They clearly dont seem to be taking this seriously. I was hoping with a fresh start they would try and become a major player. The prices and volume on the hourly spread just as poor as ever. Most of the time the market is 108% and not much available at that price.
 
One has to remember that Betfair are neither marketmakers or brokers, they facilitate individuals trading with one another. The prices or lack thereof are those placed in the market by other participants, liquidity, volume etc. will only improve once there are more participants.

You could always mark up your own prices and size that you are prepared to trade in and see if they are taken or not. Who knows, if you were to do it properly and they are taken you may even make a profit.
 
Nice to see other traders from my nick of the wood>im in South Norwood.
My moan about Betfair is that they have asked someone to be market maker again and the guy that is doing it is just laying a wide spread with little money available. They have so much potential but need to do it properly.
 
My moan about Betfair is that they have asked someone to be market maker again and the guy that is doing it is just laying a wide spread with little money available. They have so much potential but need to do it properly.
Click to expand...

I don't see how if people choose not to use Betfair that it is Betfair's fault. Good opportunities will only exist if a large number of people decide to use their service. Obviously those who could have decided to go elsewhere.


Paul
 
Paul, I totally agree, I was just hoping that it was a far more viable proposition with tighter spreads and more liquidity.Never mind Ill stick with BB
 
Trader333 said:
I don't see how if people choose not to use Betfair that it is Betfair's fault. Good opportunities will only exist if a large number of people decide to use their service.
Click to expand...

It is partially Betfair's fault - opening up a whole range of new markets without having a MM in place (well it looks that way so far today anyway) is a bad move - having a substantial number of new financial markets with virtually zero volume doesn't create a good impression. Intrade/Tradesports have market maker agreement in which (I think) MM's agree to post prices continously in return for lower commission rates, Betfair should do something similar.

I'm also planning on MMing across all BF financials at some stage, but I was hoping that IG or another firm would start MMing today just to prove the point that a MM presence is needed to get some of the new markets going (and also boost volumes for the existing markets).
 
The speed of the price change suggests there is someone doing something. There is also a regular book of about 107.8% which implies someone is setting a market with the right equipment.
 
Which markets are you looking at? There have been bots present on the FTSE intradays for a while now, but the problems are:

1) They often don't put up prices on both sides of the spread.
2) If they do, then the spread is often very wide (7-8 points or more)
3) They come and go during the hour, and rarely stay around for more than a few minutes at a time before being paused/turned off.
4) The stake sizes are usually pretty small.

What the BF financials need are a proper MM who is willing to post a continous spread of 5 points or better, with decent stakes...
 
Is it that bad?
There seems to be some money on the decimal close market and the the spread on the Dow intradays seems to be okay.
 
The Decimal Close market is just a lottery! Each outcome has almost exactly a 10% chance (even at 4:30pm, as the index usually moves a reasonable amount before the official close).

There is a MM on the DJIA intradays you are right, but the spread is very wide (over 8 binary points), and the stakes are pretty small.
 
£10/point or higher on both sides of the spread. The current bots are offering barely £1/point most of the time, although sometimes one of the bots puts around £3-£4/point but only on one side of the spread.
 
This was all discussed several years ago. The reason there is little money in these markets is because somebody with a faster feed keeps picking off poor pricing. Very difficult to make money if somebody else can see the future.
 
scrip, yep thats the main reason. What we are saying is that we would love to take on the bot if it would lay decent volume and a decent spread. Then I quess he wouldnt do it, so things probably wont change. It was just a hope as betfair introduced some new markets.
 
Scripophilist said:
This was all discussed several years ago. The reason there is little money in these markets is because somebody with a faster feed keeps picking off poor pricing. Very difficult to make money if somebody else can see the future.
Click to expand...

Surely if you have access to the same feed (or faster) then it's possible to post a spread inside the much wider spread in which that bot operates?

Also, what about the futures markets? I doubt anyone is complaining on there about certain people having faster access to news feeds!
 
If one were to look at the FTSE to finish up or down @ 6086.10, the recent figures were back at 1.1 (£110 available) and lay at 1.25 (£5 available); at the time the FTSE was at 6158 (72 points higher).

Whilst that spread might appear high I cannot see the problem in trading, Betfair are not a spreadbetting firm and you do not have to trade at the prices you see. As such, there is no harm in asking for a price of 1.2 or 1.15 (back) for £50. If there is a trader out there who takes the opposite view for whatever reason, your trade will be taken in due course and then you simply lay the odds you wish in order to close the trade or accept whatever is on offer.

For as long as people sit on the sidelines waiting for better prices liquidity will remain poor and the astute few will mop up the good prices and bank the profits. It is not as bad as it seems.
 
Exactly yeah - it's not particularly hard to get filled on Betfair, but it would be even easier for users to trade in and out if a MMer was present offering tight spreads.
 
Jules 101, I can see your argument but it is these wide spreads that actually present the opportunites to the trader. Without saying too much, let us assume for simplistic purposes that major data will come out within the hour and the quote on the FTSE to finish up is 1.62 to 1.91; you feel that the news has the potential to move the market by 25 points but you do not know which direction it will be in.

Now what is to stop you from placing simultaneous bets of back at 1.88 and lay at 1.65 (abstract figures) at £10 each? If you are wrong and one side gets taken your maximum loss is £10 however, if your bets both get taken, you walk away with a profit of £2.30 (less Betfair commission). There are many other ways of achieving the same financial result or better but that is one of the basic methods.

By doing this, other backers and layers will be drawn into the market and before you know it, the market will be awash with traders.
 
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