YM journal

[Bigbusiness]

I was never fortunate enough to have a proper mentor. I have had to unravel the whole riddle for myself, alone. You cannot imagine what a tough journey it is. It nearly cost me my marriage, my home, my health, my sanity and £600,000 in losses before I began to learn, and easily another £3,500,000 before I could say I had finally mastered all of it, including the markets and myself.

So you lost £4.1million learning how to trade? I can't understand why you would need to learn to trade if you had that much money to burn. I can think of better ways to spend it

 

[a320]

Why does the MOS print this rubbish :?:

Albert Labos learned about stock market trading at a course run by a reputable training firm in Somerset called FTS

Sorry for going off topic Frugi

 

[SOCRATES]

So you lost £4.1million learning how to trade? I can't understand why you would need to learn to trade if you had that much money to burn. I can think of better ways to spend it

Since you think according to your own frame of reference this is all a joke, it is not. You misundserstand ~ your perception is one of someone with a bag of banknotes allowing all of them to blow away in the wind and losing the lot, just for fun.

If I had not chosen to go through the route of having to gain experience over many years of real trying all on my own, exploring, verifying, testing again, learning from it, and so progressing at a snail's pace, but making reaI progress and not make believe progress I would not have had to test everything with real money and would have opted to just paper trade which is playing at it, which is easy, because it is not the same.

I did not want to have the experience of playing at it, because at a very early stage I realised the feelings generated were different. The experience of paper trading is very different to the experience of playing with real money, therefore the lessons gained are also different. The first is artificial and the second very real. More than 40,000 trades is a testament to this alone.

I accumulated losses in the course of unravelling all of this because these losses were as a consequence of real turnover, and not paper money, this is the difference between for example getting experience in the real property market against just playing monopoly with friends on a winter evening.

This means that if during that process that I chose to undergo I had known what I know now and mastered what I have now mastered I would not have had to clock up those costs.

 

[SOCRATES]

Why does the MOS print this rubbish :?:



Sorry for going off topic Frugi

Right, now it is your turn. You have been hounding me about this FTS story obsessively for a long time. Here are the facts::~

I used to attend lots of Presentations, Discussions. Traders' Gatherings, Introductions, Seminars, Trade Fairs, etc., until I realised my name was being used to promote all these ideas that I did not necessarily agree or disagree with.

One of these was a Course on Options run by Peter Hall in Somerset. I found the way he presented his ideas interesting but not necessarily to be included in my toolbox.

I am always polite to people who invite me to their seminars and if at the end of them I am asked to comment, I comment as I find. I made the comment I found it interesting and helpful. The course was designed for absolute beginners.

You may be a beginner, and the reason I venture to make the statement is that you are not capable of explaining in depth any question ever asked of you on this website, instead you try to give us a lot of bull with these arcane lines and numbers of yours, in an attempt to attract attention to yourself for a reason that so far escapes me, but I am too old and battered by experience over many years to be considered a beginner.

 

[smiley]

The thing I like best about this site is that if you are willing to wait, sometimes a long time, you will find some GREAT little gems.

The thing I hate most about this site is that you have to suffer some uther rubbish and grand egos along the way in your quest to find it.

Maybe Albert is the "real thing" or maybe he isn't. Surely the only valid point is, if he actually inspires/helps others or not...........from the point of view of a "newbie".

OR

.......from the point of view of Albert, if indeed he "banks" the results of his efforts or just pretends to.

Either way, all the parties involved know the truth which is all that matters. For what it's worth, I think that the guy knows his stuff.

Kind Regards

Smiley

p.s. Sunday night, had a few G&T's so if this is total crap then p/s forgive me. Then again maybe that's why I speak the truth??/

 

[SOCRATES]

Socrates
You suggest the route I suggest is fraught with dangers. Your way would seem to have it's fair share of danger too. I quote "The final leg of perfecting the correct mindset took just under 13 years of pain and graft and sleepless nights".

You suggest there was a final solution (to dealing with emotion). Can you elaborate or am I missing the point?

Yes, there is. You have to strive to create a separate persona to deal with the market. Surgeons do it to deal with grisly operations, rescue crews do it to deal with accidents, and so on.

The persona you use in your daily life is not suitable to deal with the information shocks that the market deals out all the time.So you have to be able to deal with it in a different way, in the same way that other proffessionals deal with unpleasant, or uncomforatble or even frigthenening scenarios, because they owe it to their own proffessionalism to remain calm and detached without emotion.

 

[a320]

clock up those costs.

Clever play on words....

It was a retired horologist named Albert Labos

Maybe I am a beginner in the grander scale of things but I'm happy on my own pathein.

Thank you for taking the time to answer the MOS article which as often been brushed over in the past...

Have an enjoyable & pleasant evening

Thx

CJ

 

[SOCRATES]

Clever play on words....

Maybe I am a beginner in the grander scale of things but I'm happy on my own pathein

Thank you for taking the time to answer the MOS article which as often been brushed over in the past...

Have an enjoyable evening

CJ

Those are the facts, brutal and to the point and as a result of irrefutable evidence, as I am fed up with being accused of all sorts of nonsense. I work very hard, unpaid, to try to help all of you on this site as I have been through unbelievable levels of pain and stress and cost in order to crack all of this, and it is a shame you should have to experience even a fraction of what I have had to in order to finally overcome all the obstacles, therefore considering what I am trying to do for your collective benefit at no advantage to me whatsoever, you ought to consider that to reward this effort so negatively at every opportunity is completely unacceptable and totally out of order.

And you have a good evening too, and I hope that is the end of it.

 

[SOCRATES]

The thing I like best about this site is that if you are willing to wait, sometimes a long time, you will find some GREAT little gems.

The thing I hate most about this site is that you have to suffer some uther rubbish and grand egos along the way in your quest to find it.

Maybe Albert is the "real thing" or maybe he isn't. Surely the only valid point is, if he actually inspires/helps others or not...........from the point of view of a "newbie".

OR

.......from the point of view of Albert, if indeed he "banks" the results of his efforts or just pretends to.

Either way, all the parties involved know the truth which is all that matters. For what it's worth, I think that the guy knows his stuff.

Kind Regards

Smiley

p.s. Sunday night, had a few G&T's so if this is total crap then p/s forgive me. Then again maybe that's why I speak the truth??/

Of course I know my stuff, back to front and inside out and upside down, because what I tell you, even if you may not like it, is the consequence of hard experience, of which I assure you, I have a lot.

 

[smiley]

Of course I know my stuff, back to front and inside out and upside down, because what I tell you, even if you may not like it, is the consequence of hard experience, of which I assure you, I have a lot.

Albert

You provoke a reaction. In some this is positive, others not so. In my experience the worst thing is when you take the time to say something but nobody gives a damm.

Not the case here, so I repeat: everybody involved knows the truth, if only they admit it to themsevles. Once again, in my opinion, I think that you know your stuff and if you can help others through your posts and minimise their hard experiences then p/s keep going.

 

[Tuffty]

For anyone who is interested below is a link to a page from Seykota's site which explains the ways that one can deal with emotion/feelings. Thanks for your answer Socrates. I understand how you deal with the emotional side. I don't believe there is a right or wrong answer. I found Seykota's methodology interesting and useful for me as it has helped explain some of my traits but I haven't been part of a 'Tribe' process.

www.seykota.com/tribe/Pollinators/2004_H_02_CF.htm

I hope that Furgi and others may find some use in the above posts. Hope we haven't disrupted Frugi's thread too much. Cheers Tuffty.

 

[SOCRATES]

Thanks for the encouragement folks, it means a lot.

Was paper trading today as I just don't trust myself at the moment. I feel out of sync in some inexplicable way. Well, actually not inexplicable: I think that big losing day temporarily crushed my self esteem, thus lending weight to the adage that you pay yourself no more and no less than what you think you are worth.

Looking at today's action I was happy I stayed away. A short plunge, an interminable sideways grind and then a sudden late rally. Ideal conditions for me to overtrade and get chopped up.

Here's hoping next week will bring you a fresher, faster, fecund Frugi (and some decent trades) :cheesy:

Good weekend to all.

Frugi, you are not correct by punishing yourself in this way, because it serves to create collateral damage instead of collective reinforcement.

When you have this sort of experience, you have to walk away and cool down completely.
It is only when you are completely cooled that you cannot yet return. This is because there is work to be done. This work has to be done on yourself. I am sorry that it is not pleasant.
You have to sit down and have a conversation with yourself and find out by persistent quesitioning why it is that you are doing what you are doing and reacting in this way.

This is a most unpleasant excercise, You have to do these these things in order to extricate answers. You need to acquire these answers in order to help you progress, otherwise you will get locked in to a cycle of behaviour that repeats itself. This is not your fault. It is as a result of being human.

The more often you allow this behavioural loop to take charge the more difficult you will find it to countermand it, or until the experience becomes so painful, that you are obligated to stop.

When you give yourself the answer, then you will know how to deal with it, because you will have had a realisation, and this empowers you not to repeat this self destructive cycle.

I know it is not easy, but it is the single most important process you need to execute in your present condition for you to evolve as an efficient trader.

That is my advice, and my advice which I offer to you gladly, is the result of my experience, which is considerable.

Kind Regards As Usual.

 

[frugi]

iBite

Gosh - I see there has been some heavyweight posting activity in my absence. Excellent

I have to be brief now but rest assured I will find some time properly to read the previous contributions/advice and answer as appropriate. Thank you for your responses and suggestions everyone, though once again I would like to respectfully caution members that this is not the place for personal attacks (nobody is guilty of this yet but please remember that anyone who is will be treated harshly). Cheers.

That said, everyone please feel free to post here. It is not in any way a sanctified or elitist thread :cheesy: and all are welcome.

---

A simple self explanatory Grail long today for +45. I closed shy of the target (previous high 507) because of the large volume seen at 17:27 accompanied by a bearish candle with a long top tail and FWIW OB RSI.

The pleasant surprise of the day came from taking $1.18 out of Apple by shorting near the top and following down the 5 minute bars, moving the stop to just above the high as each bar closed. Was eventually stopped out on the first HH. Why did I short? Screaming divergences on every momentum indicator going, near a century number and lack of momentum when the new high at 77.73 was posted - it just seemed to dribble up on low volume when one might have expected another surge. Not to mention failure rallies on the main indices. As far as I could see T&S was not showing much size going through, but bear in mind my 'micro analysis' skill is almost non-existent at the moment, so it was probably just luck

There was also a Dow 3pk PD between 20:10 and 20:34 with an encouraging volume pattern on the 3 lows. How did I miss that?

 

[clylbw]

Hi frugi,

So you trade stocks as well now? Best wishes.

I will stick to the indexes for a while. Although such a consolidation was not unheard of, today's low volume took me by surprise to some degree, especially during the opening hours in which I normally expected heavier volume. It almost felt a bit anti-climatic after all the movements since the new year.

And something seemed to be brewing up in the afternoon, the last 90 minutes in particular. I suppose I have a pretty good idea of what are intended by the big boys, but time will tell. When the fireworks go off, we will be ready.

 

[frugi]

Engineered fluctuation warning, code red

Initial direction was described as "uncertain", but according to Suki Bapswent of BullTV the move was "sure gonna be strong" and most like to reverse "when you least expect it".

So you trade stocks as well now? Best wishes

Hi cly,

Only very occasionally, cause they won't let me violate the PDT rule (account breathes a sigh of relief) The Dow suffers the other 99% of my attention.

And something seemed to be brewing up in the afternoon, the last 90 minutes in particular. I suppose I have a pretty good idea of what are intended by the big boys, but time will tell. When the fireworks go off, we will be ready.

I love these enigmatic posts (and I'd be a very happy Clanger if you felt like expanding on the issues touched, but of course I perfectly understand if you wish not to)
Yes, the low volume was odd - I'd expect more following a gap of that size. I've gone back to my charts to see if I can discern the big boys' intentions that you hint at, but as ever I am at a loss.

All I see is a bull flag on the hourly with a target of 10580 if 10500, ideally 10510, goes tomorrow. The bull flag is perched neatly on top of the well established hourly channel from which we broke out today. Perhaps I also see an engineered move below the LOD at 10465 in the last hour followed by relatively solid buying? So the big boys presumably want to take it up tomorrow. Am I close? LOL, almost certainly no! I have much to learn.

The gap is a bit of a wild card because to fill it would mean a fall back into the long channel, which would surely disappoint a lot of bulls (bull trap/false BO setup). So I'd expect a strong reaction either way following a fill.

I'll initially be watching the flag boundaries for clues I guess. I'm only a greysider at best, remember!

Please keep posting cly

 

[s-a]

I don't want to take anything away from your thread here Frugi, but I feel compelled to thank Socrates for posting his experiences. Since I started trading 2 years ago I have been investing lots of effort (the majority of effort?) into my trading psychology. I have read lots on NLP so I can create new anchors for myself and collapse old anchors that I don't find useful. These seems to be doing something as my trading is starting to improve. Anyhow, thanks again Socrates - I appreciate you taking the time to post.

HG

 

[SOCRATES]

There is a lull in the proceedings, so I have a time gap in which to comment.

Thank you s-a for your comments above. I am pleased that what I explain and point out is of benefit, because that is the intent. You see it is very easy to misread what is presented on a chart and otherwise.

You have to be on your toes, you have to tune in to the intent. There are people, for reasons that escape me , determined to prevent others from progressing. This is not nice. Therefore if and when I am attacked I respond, and this is not primarily because I have anything left to prove anyomore, but because attacks misdirect the attention towards the attack or attacker and away from the validity of what is being explained for the benefit of all of you.

For example, in Frugi's post number 213 above there is included a 5 min chart of Apple Computer.
In this chart there are two glitches.

The first glitch is a long bottomtail appearing in the price progression at approx 1620. This cannot be correct. It has to be rogue data. This is because if you look carefully at the progression of the price, this sudden wobble is out of character with the development, a narrow, carefully controlled rise, with relatively narrow spreads in smooth sequence. I may be wrong, but I doubt it,

The second glitch occurs at 2040. Here there is a long toptail again out of keeping with the progression of the price which is again controlled and smooth. Again, my strong suspicions are that this is again rogue data. I may be wrong, but I doubt it.

I arrive at these conclusions as a result of observing the character of the market action in question.
In my experience, which is considerable, these tails are prone to occur in persistently volatile price action, which, from this chart, is totally absent.

Perhaps someone might be able to verify this with another chart that, devoid of these anomalies, would show the true picture as these distractions only serve to add risk to inadvertently misdirect.

 

[SOCRATES]

I forgot to mention, you will see that this chart is continuation from a gap up, a perfectly clean gap.
This clean gap and the way it iis presented would give the clue of further progress north because of the syle in which the price progresses thereafter. The trend that develops from this gap is rigidly bullish. This is another reason for the bottom tail to be out of place.

The effort required to lift the toptail to where it culminates again is out of place, does not look right, looks out of ccontext with the way price progression is being handled. This is what I mean when I say you have to look beyond what is presented.

Failure to do this leads to accept things as they appear and not necessarily as they are.

 

[frugi]

Yes, definitely bad data glitches.

 

[SOCRATES]

Ah ! Yes, you see Frugi, you may now percieve more clearly how the appearance of something like this can succeed in misdirecting, causing the wrong decision to be perhaps made, as a direct consequence of inadvertently arriving at the wrong conclusion? Actually it is a very easy trap to fall into, if you are not ferociously vigilant at all times.