What trading platform( depth of market-DOM ) for scalpers.

econbizer

Junior member
20 0
if u r retail & r looking for lowest fees, go to interative brokers.

eg 6usd/month lev 2 cboe futures. 2usd per trade comm

cons - no tick chart


also look at optimus futures - trade via multicharts(cqg) for free data (heard of, not tried) or sierrachart(rithmic) 25usd data per mth, dirt cheap for the vast amt of market subscriptions. approx 2usd comm per trade
 

bootsyjam

Active member
225 19
X trader. It's the most widely used DOM/market entry system as far as I'm aware. There's a reason for that.
Next job is find a broker to use it with.
 

econbizer

Junior member
20 0
X trader. It's the most widely used DOM/market entry system as far as I'm aware. There's a reason for that.
Next job is find a broker to use it with.
TT is very expensive.. any suggestions for access to it with a reasonably priced broker?
 

bootsyjam

Active member
225 19
Unfortunately there's no 'cheap ' way of doing it as if you get data/x trader bundled together then you will pay higher commission each trade so it's a zero sum game. I would suggest optimus futures or look up ft71 on google-he has his own brokerage that I think is quite good.

One thing I have realised is that the computerisation of trading has given traders (including myself in the past ) the unrealistic expectation that we can get all we want for free/at low cost in terms of platforms etc.

Considering the barriers to entry that used to exist to be able to trade (get job in bank/buy seat on exchange) then the costs to get the same data and platforms that successful pro traders use actually seems quite reasonable. Let's call it the cost of doing business like a pro:)

If you're trading futures then I don't know too many of the liquid markets that are less than approx 10 euros/£/$ per point (yes there is mini dow but don't count that as very liquid+10 points in the Dow is not a big move). If you're successfully trading with that trade size then the cost of tt/x trader is kind of irrelevant.
 

econbizer

Junior member
20 0
Unfortunately there's no 'cheap ' way of doing it as if you get data/x trader bundled together then you will pay higher commission each trade so it's a zero sum game. I would suggest optimus futures or look up ft71 on google-he has his own brokerage that I think is quite good.

One thing I have realised is that the computerisation of trading has given traders (including myself in the past ) the unrealistic expectation that we can get all we want for free/at low cost in terms of platforms etc.

Considering the barriers to entry that used to exist to be able to trade (get job in bank/buy seat on exchange) then the costs to get the same data and platforms that successful pro traders use actually seems quite reasonable. Let's call it the cost of doing business like a pro:)

If you're trading futures then I don't know too many of the liquid markets that are less than approx 10 euros/£/$ per point (yes there is mini dow but don't count that as very liquid+10 points in the Dow is not a big move). If you're successfully trading with that trade size then the cost of tt/x trader is kind of irrelevant.
Thanks for sharing your knowledge bootsyjam!

I did use TT before in my younger days. It's pretty overkill even for an intra-day scalper. Mostly good for inter-market arbitrage scalpers back in the day.. not so much now with algos getting all the arb now. It looks good.. but you can do much better with your money.

As I only scalp a specific product, dow minis for now, minimising costs makes sense. Most feed providers sell data in bundles, which doesn't make sense for small retail like myself. I am considering optimus, & have demo-ed for awhile infact.
 

T44

Member
57 8
Look at Sierra Chart, excellent platform if ur on a budget, you can customise it to look like TT if you want! Until ur at a level to get volume discounts then have a look at deepdiscounttrading, blingy name and website but all the pricing is there without having to submit an enquiry. YM at $3.34 per rt plus platform fees and data. I looked into this v recently and if ur happy having just Sierra Chart as ur only platform then the CQG FIX feed is 10 c per rt, platform and data depends on the features option you choose within Sierra. DDT support is great, and Sierra has a comprehensive website.
 

bootsyjam

Active member
225 19
Thanks for sharing your knowledge bootsyjam!

I did use TT before in my younger days. It's pretty overkill even for an intra-day scalper. Mostly good for inter-market arbitrage scalpers back in the day.. not so much now with algos getting all the arb now. It looks good.. but you can do much better with your money.

As I only scalp a specific product, dow minis for now, minimising costs makes sense. Most feed providers sell data in bundles, which doesn't make sense for small retail like myself. I am considering optimus, & have demo-ed for awhile infact.
Fair enough. You mentioned that you are scalping. As such you need to work out what is the best Dom in terms of order routing, reliability and general performance. If scalping, your entries are going to be even more important. I know some prop traders and everyone uses TT. I had exactly the same conversation with them about cost etc and they were all adamant that TT was the best for execution and order routing. I'm more of a swing trader so technically I don't need the awesome functionality, but then again I still need reliable fills and TT apparently is best in this regard. Any savings you make on another DOM might be a bit of a mirage as you might get more slippage/not get filled at all which can affect taking profits as well as respecting stop losses if you use them.

I'm not overly technical so depends how deep you want to delve into the technical side. If you don't mind me asking, are you uk based and what will be your approx acct size?
 

T44

Member
57 8
Interesting info.....

CQG and CTS both offer high end offerings at a similar price to TT I assume they must pick up some clients or they wouldn't stay in business?
 

econbizer

Junior member
20 0
Fair enough. You mentioned that you are scalping. As such you need to work out what is the best Dom in terms of order routing, reliability and general performance. If scalping, your entries are going to be even more important. I know some prop traders and everyone uses TT. I had exactly the same conversation with them about cost etc and they were all adamant that TT was the best for execution and order routing. I'm more of a swing trader so technically I don't need the awesome functionality, but then again I still need reliable fills and TT apparently is best in this regard. Any savings you make on another DOM might be a bit of a mirage as you might get more slippage/not get filled at all which can affect taking profits as well as respecting stop losses if you use them.

I'm not overly technical so depends how deep you want to delve into the technical side. If you don't mind me asking, are you uk based and what will be your approx acct size?
TT is great for.pure bid-ask scalpers going for a few ticks. They have very very advanced conditional entry orders. For eg you can place an order at the next bid above the current price ONLY IF the bid size has a minium of 30 contracts. This would have been a huge edge 10 years+ ago before algos came into the market. Such an edge will give a scalper a huge chance for a better queue to be filled forst & manny other contracts to lean on

I am not a pure sxalper like the above. I should prob say I am an intraday trader. DOM is an extra for me. my trades r placed off charts. I just find flashing tickers & the rapid movememt of DOM too adrenaline inducing. I prefer to keep it boring & trade off tick charts. I m not uk based.

Perhaps you r wondering what is the minimum you need to trade futures. Using dow minis as an eg, if you trade 1 contract & your avg stop is 20ticks (1 tick $5 x 20ticks = 100usd), & you risk 1% a trade, You will need a bare minimum of 10k usd. Simply adjust the tick/avg stop size/ risk per trsde values for an idea of which product you r interest in. Good luck!
 

bootsyjam

Active member
225 19
TT is great for.pure bid-ask scalpers going for a few ticks. They have very very advanced conditional entry orders. For eg you can place an order at the next bid above the current price ONLY IF the bid size has a minium of 30 contracts. This would have been a huge edge 10 years+ ago before algos came into the market. Such an edge will give a scalper a huge chance for a better queue to be filled forst & manny other contracts to lean on

I am not a pure sxalper like the above. I should prob say I am an intraday trader. DOM is an extra for me. my trades r placed off charts. I just find flashing tickers & the rapid movememt of DOM too adrenaline inducing. I prefer to keep it boring & trade off tick charts. I m not uk based.

Perhaps you r wondering what is the minimum you need to trade futures. Using dow minis as an eg, if you trade 1 contract & your avg stop is 20ticks (1 tick $5 x 20ticks = 100usd), & you risk 1% a trade, You will need a bare minimum of 10k usd. Simply adjust the tick/avg stop size/ risk per trsde values for an idea of which product you r interest in. Good luck!
Uh you've misunderstood. I was asking your account size because if you have an account of 100k and you're a scalper then then the TT cost is of no consequence.

And now I find out you're not a scalper as such but an intraday trader and just want to trade off a chart. And you find a DOM too distracting. So why are you asking at all-passing the time or something?
Anyway, good luck in your search.
 

T44

Member
57 8
Hi Bootsy,

I'm not a scalper either, trades usually last from a few mins to a few hours. As described in my earlier post I use Sierra with a CQG FIX feed, usually trading direct from a chart, sometimes from a Dom. It has never occurred to me that using CQG or CTS as I have in the past might give worse fills than TT. Do you know whether the evidence is just anecdotal or the result of genuine comparisons?

Thanks, T
 

econbizer

Junior member
20 0
Uh you've misunderstood. I was asking your account size because if you have an account of 100k and you're a scalper then then the TT cost is of no consequence.

And now I find out you're not a scalper as such but an intraday trader and just want to trade off a chart. And you find a DOM too distracting. So why are you asking at all-passing the time or something?
Anyway, good luck in your search.
I am interested in TT's algo design lab. If the costs for TT has come down, I would definitely go for it. can you share an idea of the lowest cost for a TT setup?
 

econbizer

Junior member
20 0
Look at Sierra Chart, excellent platform if ur on a budget, you can customise it to look like TT if you want! Until ur at a level to get volume discounts then have a look at deepdiscounttrading, blingy name and website but all the pricing is there without having to submit an enquiry. YM at $3.34 per rt plus platform fees and data. I looked into this v recently and if ur happy having just Sierra Chart as ur only platform then the CQG FIX feed is 10 c per rt, platform and data depends on the features option you choose within Sierra. DDT support is great, and Sierra has a comprehensive website.
Thanks for your info T44. I m holding back with optimus that goes thru amp futures at the moment, until I clear up issues like reliability. Has DDT been in the industry for long.. reputatable with reliable fills in your experience?

I m using IB. slippage on YM is normal. either price slips past my entry stops n dun get executed or v occassionally slips past my stop loss for a worse fill.
 

T44

Member
57 8
DDT is an introducing broker, one man band it appears a guy called Howard Lender. His CS is spot on, rarely wait more than a couple of hours on a reply to a basic enquiry, and more important stuff is very quick. They clear through Ironbeam, which it seems is a subsidiary of Wedbush these days. You get a choice of datafeeds which is where Bootsy's fills issue may come in. I've never noticed any issues, but if you do lose a tick a side compared to TT then it would mount up....don't know how to test this though!

I looked at AMP but opted for DDT a few years ago, DDT cleared Crossland at the time, they got bought out.

I use Dorman at the mo, despite being a clearer they do take retail clients, but I do find their CS rather patchy although once everythings set up and agreed its fine......but I'm considering going back to DDT in the near future.
 
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