What platform to use, special request

[No Quarter]

Hi there
After a few months on ETX with small amounts, slowly learning, I'm ready to put a few more zeros on the amounts that I trade. But...I'm very focused on the risk, and I'm looking for another platform. Why? Because at ETX I can lose more than I deposited, and that in itself makes me trade smaller amounts than what I would otherwise do.

I've seen lists of various platforms, but this about whether one can lose more than deposited, is not mentioned. Am I the only one that cares? A loss bigger than the deposit can be life changing, in a bad way

So the question is what platform can give me the tools and reasonable spreads, be FCA regulated, AND have a product where the max risk is the deposited amount?

Input is welcome, and any other advice about lowering risk when choosing platform.

 

[f2calv]

FXCM have a type of negative balance protection, i.e. you pay for all losses above $50k

http://ir.fxcm.com/releasedetail.cfm?ReleaseID=902619

 

[No Quarter]

FXCM have a type of negative balance protection, i.e. you pay for all losses above $50k

http://ir.fxcm.com/releasedetail.cfm?ReleaseID=902619

Thanks for input f2calv, but that's not the kind of "insurance" I'm looking for, could still be dramatic...

 

[f2calv]

If your current position size is such that an adverse move could utterly wipe out your account [and more besides] then logic would dictate that your position size is simply too big.

Trading goes hand in hand with risk, rewards only come to those who take on a level of risk [whether that level is big or small]. To "win" at trading you have to be playing a long-game and constantly managing your risk.

How much of your account are you risking per trade at present?

 

[No Quarter]

If your current position size is such that an adverse move could utterly wipe out your account [and more besides] then logic would dictate that your position size is simply too big.

Trading goes hand in hand with risk, rewards only come to those who take on a level of risk [whether that level is big or small]. To "win" at trading you have to be playing a long-game and constantly managing your risk.

How much of your account are you risking per trade at present?

3%

 

[timsk]

Hi No Quarter,
Welcome to T2W.

Hi there
After a few months on ETX with small amounts, slowly learning, I'm ready to put a few more zeros on the amounts that I trade. But...I'm very focused on the risk,. . .?

Good for you, you should go far!

. . .and I'm looking for another platform. Why? Because at ETX I can lose more than I deposited, and that in itself makes me trade smaller amounts than what I would otherwise do.?

This is a positive - not a negative. IMO, you're better off sticking with a broker like ETX that offers no negative balance protection and betting small rather than switching to a broker that does offer it and betting big. With the latter route, although you won't ever owe more than the amount deposited, the probability of you 'blowing up' (i.e. losing your account) rises dramatically.

I've seen lists of various platforms, but this about whether one can lose more than deposited, is not mentioned. Am I the only one that cares? A loss bigger than the deposit can be life changing, in a bad way?

Any broker that offers negative balance protection will advertise the fact loud and clear.

So the question is what platform can give me the tools and reasonable spreads, be FCA regulated, AND have a product where the max risk is the deposited amount?

It's a binary choice: you either go with a broker that offers negative balance protection or you don't. A half way house option might be to choose a broker that doesn't offer negative balance protection but does offer guaranteed stops. That said, so long as you're not over leveraged, you shouldn't need negative balance protection anyway. As f2calv rightly says, if a black swan event occurs, resulting in a sudden and massive move against you that wipes out your account and then some, you're almost certainly risking waaaay too much per trade.

By way of example, take the German Dax which, very roughly speaking, is trading around 10,000. If you have an account with £2,500 in it and you're trading at £1.00 per point, then the index would need to drop 25% to the 7,500 level to wipe you out. It's highly unlikely to drop that far in such a short space of time that you can't take evasive action. If it does, say in a single day, you can bet your bottom dollar there will have been a catastrophic event somewhere. If even that is taking on too much risk for your liking, deposit £10,000 in your account and use no leverage at all. That way, the only way your account will blow up is if the world blows up, which is pretty much what would have to happen for the index to go to zero!
Tim.

 

[No Quarter]

timsk, thanks for input, and I agree with most. Handling risk is a big part of making money doing this.

And I'm cautious. But let me give you an example. I had a GBPUSD position over a weekend, and didn't feel comfortable about it. And yes, the world would have to explode for that position to really hurt my finances. But reality is that I "dare" not be open over the weekend again, and since I think I'm doing the right thing, I'm losing out because I don't like to risk an infinite amount of money.

So, with a safety net like what I'm looking for, I would trade more and thereby make more money.

Maybe I should have two platforms, one protected for singular, larger night and weekend rolling trades...

Regardless, back to my initial questions, are there any such platforms? I can't find any, well found one, but the webpage looks like something I could have made in a day...

 

[timsk]

. . .Regardless, back to my initial questions, are there any such platforms? I can't find any, well found one, but the webpage looks like something I could have made in a day...

No Quarter,
Brokers change their products constantly, so members will only be able to answer this if they happen to be in the market for a new broker and they're looking for negative balance protection. So, you'll have to do your own research. On another site, a post listed these firms: ActivTrades, CMC, ADS Securities, FxPro, Admiral Markets and, as f2calv has already mentioned, FXCM. Whether or not they meet all your criteria - I have no idea.
Tim.

 

[No Quarter]

No Quarter,
Brokers change their products constantly, so members will only be able to answer this if they happen to be in the market for a new broker and they're looking for negative balance protection. So, you'll have to do your own research. On another site, a post listed these firms: ActivTrades, CMC, ADS Securities, FxPro, Admiral Markets and, as f2calv has already mentioned, FXCM. Whether or not they meet all your criteria - I have no idea.
Tim.

Only FxPro seems to still have that negative protection. Anybody using them? Happy?

Or, is this for real?
http://www.forexpeacearmy.com/forex-reviews/3947/www.fxpro.com
If so, FxPro is dangerous

It's apparently a jungle out there, maybe I should stick to FTX, where famous in Denmark Traders are?

 

[No Quarter]

Now I'm really getting confused, looking at FOREX Platform review sites, e.g. FxPro. Some say it's the best in the world (did they write it themselves?) and some call it a fraud. Even ETX is called a fraud, should be hard getting money OUT of there, haven't tried, so far I've only put money IN.

But then it's good to have user forums like this, so recommendations for platforms are welcome, with or without negative balance protection, please

 

[tatarmalay]

Hi No Quarter,
Welcome to T2W.

Good for you, you should go far!


This is a positive - not a negative. IMO, you're better off sticking with a broker like ETX that offers no negative balance protection and betting small rather than switching to a broker that does offer it and betting big. With the latter route, although you won't ever owe more than the amount deposited, the probability of you 'blowing up' (i.e. losing your account) rises dramatically.


Any broker that offers negative balance protection will advertise the fact loud and clear.


It's a binary choice: you either go with a broker that offers negative balance protection or you don't. A half way house option might be to choose a broker that doesn't offer negative balance protection but does offer guaranteed stops. That said, so long as you're not over leveraged, you shouldn't need negative balance protection anyway. As f2calv rightly says, if a black swan event occurs, resulting in a sudden and massive move against you that wipes out your account and then some, you're almost certainly risking waaaay too much per trade.

By way of example, take the German Dax which, very roughly speaking, is trading around 10,000. If you have an account with £2,500 in it and you're trading at £1.00 per point, then the index would need to drop 25% to the 7,500 level to wipe you out. It's highly unlikely to drop that far in such a short space of time that you can't take evasive action. If it does, say in a single day, you can bet your bottom dollar there will have been a catastrophic event somewhere. If even that is taking on too much risk for your liking, deposit £10,000 in your account and use no leverage at all. That way, the only way your account will blow up is if the world blows up, which is pretty much what would have to happen for the index to go to zero!
Tim.

Hi timsk,
I am looking for free good charting tool preferably with free real time data for paper trade purposes, For instance Ninja Trader offers the same but lasts 2 weeks only. Meta stock and tradestation doesn't offer demos, hence I browse around and couldn't find something similar like those mentioned above.
I hope you can help me with that.
Regards

 

[timsk]

Now I'm really getting confused, looking at FOREX Platform review sites, e.g. FxPro. Some say it's the best in the world (did they write it themselves?) and some call it a fraud. Even ETX is called a fraud, should be hard getting money OUT of there, haven't tried, so far I've only put money IN.

But then it's good to have user forums like this, so recommendations for platforms are welcome, with or without negative balance protection, please

Hi No Quarter,
I can see this is all quite confusing to a novice. However, it's hard for me - or anyone else who's been around the block a few times - to say ABC firm is good and XYZ firm is bad, not least because why on earth should you believe me in preference to anyone else! (You shouldn't by the way, always do your own research and draw your own conclusions.)

When it comes to brokers, keep in mind there is no 'best' broker or No1 broker, as it depends on each trader and the products and services they require. This FAQ will help you find the right one for you: Can You Recommend a Data Feed, Charting Software & Broker? Regarding security of funds and ensuring you don't opt for an 'iffy' (scam) broker, follow the steps outlined in this post - and you won't go too far wrong.

ETX are absolutely fine. All brokers receive negative reviews; every last one of 'em. Keep in mind that most people who complain the loudest about a broker are traders who have lost money and are desperate to find someone to blame. The very last thing they'll ever do is to look in the mirror and say 'you blew up your account because you're a numpty and traded like a ______' (insert word of your choice).

So, on the basis of the above, I'm not going to recommend anyone. You've got to do your own research and decide for yourself. By all means post a short list of anyone you're considering and I and others will be happy to tell you if there are any 'red flag' firms on your list that are best avoided. However, stick to the advice in the links provided and you'll do just fine.
Tim.

 

[No Quarter]

Hi timsk,
I am looking for free good charting tool preferably with free real time data for paper trade purposes, For instance Ninja Trader offers the same but lasts 2 weeks only. Meta stock and tradestation doesn't offer demos, hence I browse around and couldn't find something similar like those mentioned above.
I hope you can help me with that.
Regards

Is that you call thread hi-jacking?!

 

[timsk]

I am looking for free good charting tool preferably with free real time data for paper trade purposes, For instance Ninja Trader offers the same but lasts 2 weeks only. Meta stock and tradestation doesn't offer demos, hence I browse around and couldn't find something similar like those mentioned above.

Hi tatarmalay,
Welcome to T2W.

Please see the links posted above in my reply to No Quarter. The only other thing I'd say is that most brokers offer some sort of demo trading facility which will include a charting package. It's very unusual for them not to, although the precise terms and conditions will vary from one broker to the next. For example, my current broker is IG. They only offer a free 2 week trial (using ProRealTime charting), after which you have to go elsewhere or open a live account. However, if you fund a live account and do four trades per month, you can continue to run a demo account to test ideas and strategies etc. in perpetuity. There are no other charges; fantastic deal IMO.

Given that you specifically mention MetaStock and NinjaTrader, I'll hazard a guess that you're either with - or want to be with - a direct market access (DMA) broker? This is a generalisation but, very broadly, DMA brokers are aimed at professionals, or at least people who know exactly what they want and are happy to pay for it. If you're wanting free intra day software, then I suggest you give MetaTrader4 (MT4) a go, as it's so ubiquitous. Although, much better IMO, is ProRealTime mentioned above. If you literally just want free intra day charting, then try Investing.com
Tim.