What options available to a profitable trader with 4 years experience?

[fcmisc]

I've been trading as an employee for a prop firm for four years. I'm thinking of moving to another firm as I'm unhappy with the low bonus I received this year (around 3% of my trading profits), and because I'm not learning anything new other than what I'm teaching myself.

In the past 12 months I'vemade about EUR 2m in trading profits year with no significant drawdowns. I believe the margin allocated to my account is between EUR 2m - EUR 3m.

My strategies involve trading spreads on equity indices.

I have a BSc in Mathematics from a top university, and have an excellent knowledge of Excel, VBA and Java.

What sort of options would be available to me? In an ideal world, I'd like to find a role where I can continue trading my own strategy (with a defined profit split), do research, and learn from more experience traders. I do not have the funds to back myself as a local, and would prefer to work in a more structured environment within a professional trading team.

 

[Directional]

have you tried approaching any of the big prop firms? http://www.trade2win.com/traderpedia/Trading_Arcade_Index

if you have a track record of the sort you describe you could basically take your statements to any of the big prop shops such as Marex or Elite Derivatives and get a fully backed deal with a profit split of at least 70% in your favour.

 

[TWI]

3% is robbery, go talk to the guys Arb mentioned, sure with a proven track record you will have no probllem securing 15-20% or more. I take it the returns you talk about are net of costs.

 

[fcmisc]

have you tried approaching any of the big prop firms? http://www.trade2win.com/traderpedia/Trading_Arcade_Index

if you have a track record of the sort you describe you could basically take your statements to any of the big prop shops such as Marex or Elite Derivatives and get a fully backed deal with a profit split of at least 70% in your favour.

thanks for the tips. Which firms are the most reputable on the list? I've heard bad things about a few of them.

Also, I'd need a firm that provides overnight margining on inter product spreads across different exchanges. I've heard that some firms do not allow this due to high margin costs, while others charge an overnight borrowing rate, and others calculate margin dependent on VaR.

 

[charliechan]

I'm unhappy with the low bonus I received this year (around 3% of my trading profits),
...
In the past 12 months I'vemade about EUR 2m in trading profits year with no significant drawdowns.
...
I do not have the funds to back myself as a local, ....

so your bonus was E60k, and a salary.

most places will take a self funded 'local' for 20k down, larger limits, and you keep 100% - costs.

you dont need the 2m acct you think you may have.

As Arb said - elite, marex, futex seem good choices. stay away from kyte and sta though. sta seem to be going in all sorts of directions and cant keep up. kyte are high margin - in more than one way!

 

[smwinc]

Ridiculous.

How are you even paid? What has been your profit share throughout the year.

I.e. I'm assuming they didn't just pay you nothing and give you 3% of your profit at year-end.

It sounds like you were unaware of the bonus you would receive. There should be no (big) 'surprises', ever.

No disrespect intended, but if you have a trading record even 1/5 of what you mentioned, you will be welcome in the significant majority of firms that support your trading style.

A good, general guide for what to look for in a firm, and the type of questions to ask:

http://www.brettsteenbarger.com/Applying for a Trading Position.doc

Regards,

SMW

 

[RichieE]

I've been trading as an employee for a prop firm for four years. I'm thinking of moving to another firm as I'm unhappy with the low bonus I received this year (around 3% of my trading profits), and because I'm not learning anything new other than what I'm teaching myself.

In the past 12 months I'vemade about EUR 2m in trading profits year with no significant drawdowns. I believe the margin allocated to my account is between EUR 2m - EUR 3m.

My strategies involve trading spreads on equity indices.

I have a BSc in Mathematics from a top university, and have an excellent knowledge of Excel, VBA and Java.

What sort of options would be available to me? In an ideal world, I'd like to find a role where I can continue trading my own strategy (with a defined profit split), do research, and learn from more experience traders. I do not have the funds to back myself as a local, and would prefer to work in a more structured environment within a professional trading team.

If you can prove this track record you could also approach a bank. I am relatively new to this forum, so the other guys here could probably give you a better idea of your choices at a prop shop. However, I previously worked for a well known data provider and most head of for discretionary desks I've encountered I know would definitely offer you a much better offer than 3%.

 

[fcmisc]

Thanks for all the advice guys. I think I'll send an email off to Marex and see if I can get invited for a chat.

Aside from becoming an independent trader, are there any other opportunities that I should be considering?

I contacted a few recruiters from eFinancialcareers, but they did not have any suitable roles for me.

A friend in a bank said banks are firing rather than hiring, so that avenue is closed.

I am currently in the process of training a friend as an independent trader, taking a 50% of profits after costs and his salary. Using my strategy he's already up around 40% after costs, in two months (60% before costs!). I'm concerned that if I become an indepdent too, than my income streams will become undiversified.

Also, does anyone have any tips on negotiating an acceptable bonus? Last Christmas my bonus was less than what I make when I sneeze and accidently click "go" over NfP.

 

[Directional]

Thanks for all the advice guys. I think I'll send an email off to Marex and see if I can get invited for a chat.

you'd probably do better to give them a call since I bet they get a ton of emails. Last I checked it was a guy called Lee Cod who was client services manager at Marex - give him a call and explain what you want to do, and arrange to go meet him + take your statements to see what they can offer.

Also, does anyone have any tips on negotiating an acceptable bonus? Last Christmas my bonus was less than what I make when I sneeze and accidently click "go" over NfP.

Prop firms dont generally give bonuses or salary on backed deals - but you do get to keep a much larger portion of your profits. If you were on a 70% share and you made €2M EUR profits as you suggest, then your rake would be €1.4M which would pretty much make any other pay deal look decidedly less interesting.

 

[Pitscum]

Thanks for all the advice guys. I think I'll send an email off to Marex and see if I can get invited for a chat.

Aside from becoming an independent trader, are there any other opportunities that I should be considering?

I contacted a few recruiters from eFinancialcareers, but they did not have any suitable roles for me.

A friend in a bank said banks are firing rather than hiring, so that avenue is closed.

I am currently in the process of training a friend as an independent trader, taking a 50% of profits after costs and his salary. Using my strategy he's already up around 40% after costs, in two months (60% before costs!). I'm concerned that if I become an indepdent too, than my income streams will become undiversified.

Also, does anyone have any tips on negotiating an acceptable bonus? Last Christmas my bonus was less than what I make when I sneeze and accidently click "go" over NfP.

FC are you for real? name and shame who is mugging you off paying 3% please. surely after 4 years in the industry you must have made some connections????????? if not, why not?

 

[alkemy]

How you getting on fcmisc?

When i changed jobs i showed my system to a boutique prop group who have given me a cut of the profits ever since. Only 10% compared to 70% at Marex, but i am not trading it or risking a thing.

This way i am completely focussed on my new job and have no conflict of interest.

PS it is Mark Codd and Ollie Jones who are the trading managers at Marex.