What is money? Where does our money come from?

[darktone]

There a few people promoting jubille years where debts are reset.
FIAT is the main problem.

Yep, as far as im aware debt resets have been used thoughout history, i dont know much about them / their effectiveness tbh.

Re Fiat being the main problem:-
The main problem imo is the type of Fiat system we have today (debt based). Its very different to the non debt based proposals but unfortunately they all get lumped together and condemed equally.

 

[TobyDoyle]

Money is a manifestation of a few people's imagination to cripple major countries via debt and interest while, simultaneously, stealing the real wealth (gold, silver, property) of people and then using it to continually start new businesses that openly oppressive freedom and choice.

The "money" comes from a printing press in the privately owned business of the Federal Reserve/IMF; and has absolutely no value whatsoever.

The culprits have a name, but if you use it, you'll lose your job. The offenders can be identified, but doing so would mean you'll be outcast from your family and society. The parasites can be defeated, but doing so would mean you're a "Nazi".

Here, have another iPhone, another PlayStation game -- oh, look, a new re-make of a re-make from a re-make from Hollywood that further propagandizes destructive behavior and lies -- oh good, lord, a new season of American Idol with STEVEN TYLER! O-M-G!

 

[Martinghoul]

Hahaha, good one!

 

[darktone]

Money is a manifestation of a few people's imagination to cripple major countries via debt and interest while, simultaneously, stealing the real wealth (gold, silver, property) of people and then using it to continually start new businesses that openly oppressive freedom and choice.

The "money" comes from a printing press in the privately owned business of the Federal Reserve/IMF; and has absolutely no value whatsoever.

The culprits have a name, but if you use it, you'll lose your job. The offenders can be identified, but doing so would mean you'll be outcast from your family and society. The parasites can be defeated, but doing so would mean you're a "Nazi".

Here, have another iPhone, another PlayStation game -- oh, look, a new re-make of a re-make from a re-make from Hollywood that further propagandizes destructive behavior and lies -- oh good, lord, a new season of American Idol with STEVEN TYLER! O-M-G!

"Banking was conceived in iniquity and was born in sin. The bankers own the earth. Take it away from them, but leave them the power to create money, and with the flick of the pen they will create enough deposits to buy it back again. However, take away from them the power to create money and all the great fortunes like mine will disappear and they ought to disappear, for this would be a happier and better world to live in. But, if you wish to remain the slaves of bankers and pay the cost of your own slavery, let them continue to create money." (Said to be from an informal talk at the University of Texas in the 1920s, but as yet unverified.) Josiah Charles Stamp

 

[darktone]

Michael Meacher MP - on Money Creation (part 1 of 3) - YouTube

Plenty more excerpts from the conference on the youtube channel.

 

[TIG-Michael]

It's an idea.

 

[ILikeCCI]

Its some numbers on a computer screen.

 

[darktone]

id go along with both o them answers. In part at least.

 

[darktone]

More words from Bill Still (running for the libertarian nomination US) centered on the importance of monetary reform.

Still Report #39: To the Georgia Libertarian Convention - YouTube

 

[darktone]

More from Positive Money.

Fix the Money System & the Economy: Ben Dyson - YouTube

 

[Irnist]

"It's an idea"


Money is only an idea true, but it is an idea that moves between people - so it could be called social energy.

Ben Dyson posits the idea of an "Independent Body" for creating money. Is there really anything that is truly independent?

 

[new_trader]

"It's an idea"


Money is only an idea true, but it is an idea that moves between people - so it could be called social energy.

Ben Dyson posits the idea of an "Independent Body" for creating money. Is there really anything that is truly independent?

Money was an 'idea' that emerged to solve the problems associated with barter. To say it still is just an idea is wrong because real money (ie/market chosen commodity money) is tangible...it isn't just an idea.

 

[darktone]

"It's an idea"


Money is only an idea true, but it is an idea that moves between people - so it could be called social energy.

Ben Dyson posits the idea of an "Independent Body" for creating money. Is there really anything that is truly independent?

An independant body in sofar that they would be voted rather than appointed (i think). Also for me the whole process could be simple and transparent to all. Just imagine if this stuff was actually taught in school! That the public had some real grasp of what money is!

 

[darktone]

Money was an 'idea' that emerged to solve the problems associated with barter. To say it still is just an idea is wrong because real money (ie/market chosen commodity money) is tangible...it isn't just an idea.

To be fair NT, money has been many different things though history. inc paper , feathers / stones / pebbles / shells / leather etc etc. Not forgetting pm / non pm .

"Trust inscribed".. Thats probably the best description of money ive come across, tangible of not.

 

[new_trader]

To be fair NT, money has been many different things though history. inc paper , feathers / stones / pebbles / shells / leather etc etc. Not forgetting pm / non pm .

"Trust inscribed".. Thats probably the best description of money ive come across, tangible of not.

All those things you mention are TANGIBLE and have intrinsic value. Money has always emerged first from barter whether you agree or not doesn't make a difference. It's only when Governments get involved that money becomes fiat because only Governments can enforce legal tender laws.

Would you trade something valuable or sell your labour for an intangible idea that has no intrinsic value or pre-existing history of barter that gives it market value?

You don't understand money if you think "Trust inscribed" is the best description of money. Trust inscribed is a promissory note or an IOU but it isn't money. You might accept an IOU from your friend in exchange for something you own because you trust him, but you wouldn't be able to use that IOU to buy something from me that is for sure. However, if your friend gave you 1oz of gold in exchange for something I would gladly accept that 1oz from you in exchange for something I own.

 

[NVP]

money is just a convenient way for the masses (ie multiple transactors) to Value and exchange Assets or services

N

 

[darktone]

All those things you mention are TANGIBLE and have intrinsic value.

well of course, tangibility is relative though eh.

Money has always emerged first from barter whether you agree or not doesn't make a difference.

I agree, have i suggested otherwise?

It's only when Governments get involved that money becomes fiat because only Governments can enforce legal tender laws.

agreed.

Would you trade something valuable or sell your labour for an intangible idea that has no intrinsic value or pre-existing history of barter that gives it market value?

If i had confidence that could exchange that 'thing' in the future for something i need. sure!

You don't understand money if you think "Trust inscribed" is the best description of money. Trust inscribed is a promissory note or an IOU but it isn't money. You might accept an IOU from your friend in exchange for something you own because you trust him, but you wouldn't be able to use that IOU to buy something from me that is for sure. However, if your friend gave you 1oz of gold in exchange for something I would gladly accept that 1oz from you in exchange for something I own.

I think i have a pretty good idea what money is, has been. Fair for all is what i would like to be.
re the iou thing, im sure you accept gov iou (sterling)? why? trust in part maybe!?... Trust is involved in any transaction. Would you accept and iou from a trusted friend?

 

[new_trader]

Tangibility is not relative, what are you talking about? Either something exists or it doesn’t.

No, I don’t accept Government Sterling because of trust; I am forced to accept Government Sterling because of legal tender laws.

How do you exchange an intangible idea? If you have a ‘thing’ that is tangible then it has nothing to do with trust because someone can SEE what you have. Have you ever walked into a store and tried to buy something with an idea? Try it and tell me how you get on.

I think you have got yourself confused somewhere.

 

[barjon]

money is just a convenient way for the masses (ie multiple transactors) to Value and exchange Assets or services

N

aye, it all boils down to that simple truth in the end. For it to work the transactors do, of course, need to have continuing faith, confidence, trust (call it what you will) in whatever money token they are using.

 

[Martinghoul]

Oh, good god, what a calamity of a thread this has become...