What is happening to Apple ?

Pat494

Legendary member
14,621 1,579
They are pulling out their money and it's not just the minnows. Dan Loeb a prime hedge fund manager has just ditched all of his 710,000 shares !
They were $705 a share as recently as last Sept and are now down 24 %.
Do they know something of an inside nature that the rest of us don't know ?
They still have massive reserves but Google's android phone may be better.
 

WR1

Active member
206 9
Probably just getting the shaft - like facebook and most others do from time to time
ready for certain individuals to pick up cheaper

most stuff has ranges and Apple has far exceeded its range
just like gold did - once both hit the bottom of the ranges mysteriously bullish news for both will appear and up they go again

nothing new here, just market games, or really massive syndicates who have the controlling stock
 

carlosd

Active member
107 3
They're being sued by David Einhorn because they are sitting on some $130 odd BILLION.
I think the investors are starting to see Apple as a one trick pony with nothing more then the iPhone and iPad.
No new products on the horizon, apart from some rumoured iWatch, overly priced products and losing market share to Samsung and Google, so investors are probably thinking that Apple has run its course, much like Microsoft did back in the eighties and nineties.
Which ever way you cut it if Apple lower prices to compete with Samsung they naturally lower profit, and if they bring out a cheaper version of the iPhone/iPad, again they take away sales from their higher margined iPhone 5s so either way they lose revenue.
So investors are probably looking at Apple as a lose lose situation at the moment unless they can come out with that new product that everyone wants.
Apple aren't going to collapse, especially sitting on $130 billion in cash, but unless they come out with some killer product or use that money to buy something or someone its hard to see them hitting the highs of $700 a share for a long time.
 

Pat494

Legendary member
14,621 1,579
Could be that Tim Cook isn't up to Steve Jobs' legacy. Noone seems to know what if anything is in the pipeline, but Apple are notoriously secret.

Surely they must be near the bottom now ?
They could spend some of that money and lure away Google's or Sony's top boys ! That would put a spike in their works.
 

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BeginnerJoe

Senior member
3,329 350
They are pulling out their money and it's not just the minnows. Dan Loeb a prime hedge fund manager has just ditched all of his 710,000 shares !
They were $705 a share as recently as last Sept and are now down 24 %.
Do they know something of an inside nature that the rest of us don't know ?
They still have massive reserves but Google's android phone may be better.

The Apple share price is going though a long term manipulation. The company fundamentals is irrelevant. Essentially, the price will be sent to the bottom where most people will be forced out or suffer unbelievable losses.

If you have it, you had better find a way out. If you don't have it, there''s nothing for you to play. The worst you can do now is to try picking the bottom. This thing won't have reached the bottom until the large players starts to come in. The signature of their move will come in the form of consistent higher volume over a period of 3 to 6 months while the price goes side ways.

I'd say short on strong rallies.
 
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Pat494

Legendary member
14,621 1,579
They aren't all pulling out of Apple it seems.

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Einhorn raised Apple stake by nearly 50%

By Tim Bradshaw in San Francisco






David Einhorn’s Greenlight Capital raised its holding in Apple by nearly 50 per cent in the last three months of last year, according to filings released on Thursday.

Greenlight was one of the few hedge funds to increase its stake in during the fourth quarter. Dan Loeb’s Third Point and others sold down their stakes.

According to the filings, Greenlight – which last week sued Apple as part of a campaign to increase returns to investors – raised its holdings in the company by 46 per cent to 1.6m shares, including shares covered by call options. The filings do not reflect any trades that have been made since the beginning of this year.

Mr Einhorn, Greenlight’s chief, raised his stake several months after approaching Apple’s management last May to put forward his idea to issue perpetual preferred stock.

He has suggested that this new class of stock could pay a 4 per cent yield, unlocking around $30bn in value for shareholders from Apple’s $137bn cash hoard.

Greenlight’s share purchase came during a sharp decline in Apple’s stock price, while other hedge funds changed their positions on the stock.

Third Point, whose chief Mr Loeb played an active role in changes to Yahoo’s management last year, sold his entire 710,000-share position in Apple during the fourth quarter.

Smaller stock sales were also made by Leon Cooperman’s Omega Advisors, Thomas Steyer’s Farallon Capital and Barry Rosenstein’s Jana Partners during the period, according to recent filings.

Hedge funds were instrumental in driving Apple’s stock up by more than 70 per cent from the beginning of 2012 to a peak of $702.10 in mid-September. It has since lost as much as 35 per cent of its value, amid concerns about competition and its slowing growth rate.

The turnover in Apple’s shareholder register could indicate that longer-term investors seeking higher yields have increased their positions at a time when its stock has fallen to a 12-month low.

Mr Einhorn’s increase came before further discussions this month with Apple’s chief executive Tim Cook and finance chief Peter Oppenheimer about increasing returns to investors. Mr Einhorn subsequently decided to take legal action against Apple over a proxy proposal upon which shareholders will vote at the annual meeting this month.

Proposal number two, as the clause is known, would require Apple to gain shareholder approval before issuing preferred stock, which it currently does not require.

Apple said the change, which is backed by investors such as Calpers and advisory groups including ISS, was an improvement to its overall standard of corporate governance. However, Mr Einhorn’s case alleges that “bundling” that vote with other amendments to Apple’s corporate charter breaks SEC rules.

At about the time he was increasing his stake in Apple, Mr Einhorn also bought 39,000 shares in Google, whose stock price has risen about 18 per cent in the past six months.
 

BeginnerJoe

Senior member
3,329 350
When big players are buying, the last thing they will tell you is they are doing it. When they tell you they are doing it, better watch out.
 

SlowlyButSurely

Well-known member
324 38
When Steve Jobs died, AAPL lost its innovation and ability to sell bull**** for billions. They packaged products in an appealing way and had one of the greatest salesmen ever selling their wares to the masses. Without Jobs and with the likes of Google and Samsung hot on their heels everyone knows they will no longer hold such a large piece of the pie
 

new_trader

Legendary member
6,665 1,489
Probably just getting the shaft - like facebook and most others do from time to time
ready for certain individuals to pick up cheaper

most stuff has ranges and Apple has far exceeded its range
just like gold did - once both hit the bottom of the ranges mysteriously bullish news for both will appear and up they go again

nothing new here, just market games, or really massive syndicates who have the controlling stock

It's interesting that you make the comparison to gold. Over the last 5 years, Apple stock has gained +400% and nobody called it a bubble. In the same period of time, gold has gained barely +100% and almost everyone is calling it a bubble.

I am the first person in this thread to use the word 'bubble' in a thread about Apple stock. I am not implying that is IS in a bubble, however had this thread been titled "What is happening to GOLD?" I know at least one person who would have used the word bubble at least a dozen times by now ;)
 

james1989

Well-known member
261 5
Some of the replies on here, wowwwwwwwww.

Again, we are mixing sentiment with share price movement, look back at when Apple stock was at highs and you small time gambling fools were calling 1000.

The real story, if you can understand it...

Apple was never a predictable operation, it relies on constant innovation, the fickle consumer and it has no precedent of belonging to a reliable industry, in fact the opposite. I'm sure i've pointed this out before on this site, and have applied the same rationale for investment success. One must consider the continuation characteristics rather than seeking the unknowable, such as a new iphone? will management make correct operating decisions? will the consumer like it? how many consumers will buy it? look at the fundamental and material earning power of the entity, be discriminatory.

The reason why so many of you are retail traders is due to your gambling habit, why is it that on all retail sites you're all chasing that unknowable exciting stock, like a small mining company. Look for fundamental earning power in an old economy industry that is steady, proven and not likely to face backlash from the modern era and where the business is making cash and allocating it sufficiently. You're not here for a day at the horses, you're here to make money and not lose money, although that is questionable. Making money over a longer period is about consistency.

Continue in your own little unthoughtful retail dreamworld at your expense, trading is gambling in my eyes hence the lack of billionaire traders and investing in something such as Apple, well, as above. Of course, you are all going to argue for what you deem as your future millionaire status maker, but consider arguing with reason please. That's not to say i'm going to argue back, and this is due to my superior money making skills which makes debate beyond this advice uneconomical and unnecessary for me.

It's your future.
 
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Pat494

Legendary member
14,621 1,579
Some of the replies on here, wowwwwwwwww.

Again, we are mixing sentiment with share price movement, look back at when Apple stock was at highs and you small time gambling fools were calling 1000.

The real story, if you can understand it...

Apple was never a predictable operation, it relies on constant innovation, the fickle consumer and it has no precedent of belonging to a reliable industry, in fact the opposite. I'm sure i've pointed this out before on this site, and have applied the same rationale for investment success. One must consider the continuation characteristics rather than seeking the unknowable, such as a new iphone? will management make correct operating decisions? will the consumer like it? how many consumers will buy it? look at the fundamental and material earning power of the entity, be discriminatory.

The reason why so many of you are retail traders is due to your gambling habit, why is it that on all retail sites you're all chasing that unknowable exciting stock, like a small mining company. Look for fundamental earning power in an old economy industry that is steady, proven and not likely to face backlash from the modern era and where the business is making cash and allocating it sufficiently. You're not here for a day at the horses, you're here to make money and not lose money, although that is questionable. Making money over a longer period is about consistency.

Continue in your own little unthoughtful retail dreamworld at your expense, trading is gambling in my eyes hence the lack of billionaire traders and investing in something such as Apple, well, as above. Of course, you are all going to argue for what you deem as your future millionaire status maker, but consider arguing with reason please. That's not to say i'm going to argue back, and this is due to my superior money making skills which makes debate beyond this advice uneconomical and unnecessary for me.

It's your future.

Points accepted, so what stocks are you thinking of ? Surely not boring ole Treasuries etc. ?
 

BeginnerJoe

Senior member
3,329 350
Points accepted, so what stocks are you thinking of ? Surely not boring ole Treasuries etc. ?

I haven't checked, but if Facebook has been dumped to the ground, you'd do well to look for an entry. What goes up, must come down. What goes down, must come up. The game is quite simple - just need to look at what the big chimps are doing.
 

BeginnerJoe

Senior member
3,329 350
I just had a look. Facebook is in fact a good buy. I'd suggest loading up on any major market-wide down turn.
 

james1989

Well-known member
261 5
Points accepted, so what stocks are you thinking of ? Surely not boring ole Treasuries etc. ?

Just because businesses are boring, people assume they must produce lousy returns.

But, if one buys the shares in relative value, which usually arises twice a year for some great companies, you can make from 40%+ without risking the lot.

Buying on a what goes down must come up basis, as suggested, is statistically incorrect. I can list 1000+ businesses which have gone bankrupt for one.

You need to think what causes businesses to go badly wrong. A few pointers, those tied to public expenditure, tied extensively to a commodity, those which are subject to regulation or may be, those whose service is far too general and those who are in or tied to new industries and one can't imagine what may happen next.

Try to expand your knowledge, and use foresight, instead of following the retail crowd, otherwise, your returns will mimic the retail crowds.
 
 
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