What are all your histories like?

[Snownation]

Well, Me, I'm a petty student. Just earning myself a few quid every day to support a better life.

I'm in my second year now doing a degree in Actuarial Science, and i plan to make it into sales and trading in an investment bank. Why? Because i wanna join the boys in making some money, although that word is taboo in an investment bank.

So i was thinking. What do you guys do? Any professional traders working in a bank? I have this awful assumption that only traders at a bank could make big bucks. I'm wrong after visiting here. Seems like you guys know how to make good money.

So I'm wondering, what are you histories like? Did any of you ever work in a bank? Did many of you start out with zilch, and work your way up?

Where did you get the capital to trade with? I gotta admit that a car mechanic can't possibly raise enough money to start playing the FTSE100 on a daily basis.

So where does your money come from? Failed traders from a bank? Family wealth? Ex-trader?

I would like to know more.

Thanks!

 

[damianoakley]

Hi,

Interesting thread.

I worked in Sales for years before I finally went full-time with trading.

In sales, you learn to deal with rejection, which can be a great toughener and character builder. A bad day in a sales job where a large part of your salary relies on commission can really make you feel like a failure, but you must pick yourself up and begin the next day with a positive mental attitude.

The resistance you build to rejection and failure in Sales can certainly help toughen you up and develop the attitude and character required to deal with trading.


Thanks

Damian

 

[shadowninja]

The resistance you build to rejection and failure in Sales can certainly help toughen you up and develop the attitude and character required to deal with trading.

Out of interest, and slightly off-topic (although it is related to psychology of a trade), do you find you can go up to women and chat them up, taking rejection in your stride, then?

 

[Snownation]

Hi,

Interesting thread.

I worked in Sales for years before I finally went full-time with trading.

In sales, you learn to deal with rejection, which can be a great toughener and character builder. A bad day in a sales job where a large part of your salary relies on commission can really make you feel like a failure, but you must pick yourself up and begin the next day with a positive mental attitude.

The resistance you build to rejection and failure in Sales can certainly help toughen you up and develop the attitude and character required to deal with trading.


Thanks

Damian

That's interesting. Thanks for your insight.
I've always wondered how Sales and Traders operate in a bank.
Was it tough job? I know you cracked on, and eventually left to trade full trade.
Was it because you got fed up in sales, or just wanted a break?

 

[arabianights]

Did a degree in computer science at a good uni, then looked for jobs in trading.

I don't have the satorial or personal grooming skills to fit in in an investment bank, although I did half heartedly try... so I got a job at a prop shop. Don't think you could really call me "professional" though, I'm posting this at work after all!

As for capital, the firm gives it to you. I had no money at all.

If it helps I do know some peopel who work at ibanks, they're fit and healthy and comb their hair, could pass on your queries...

 

[damianoakley]

Out of interest, and slightly off-topic (although it is related to psychology of a trade), do you find you can go up to women and chat them up, taking rejection in your stride, then?

LOL - becoming an expert in the female sex requires skills way beyond those of a lowly stock trader.

The markets can be difficult to deal with at times, but that's nothing compared to the skill and determination required to maintain a good relationship.....


Thanks

Damian

 

[damianoakley]

That's interesting. Thanks for your insight.
I've always wondered how Sales and Traders operate in a bank.
Was it tough job? I know you cracked on, and eventually left to trade full trade.
Was it because you got fed up in sales, or just wanted a break?

For years, sales was my bread and butter that paid the bills, with trading always being an interest that cost me money.

My passion was always to go full-time with trading, but it was a long time before I managed to realise that dream.

If I never managed to make trading work for me, then a sales job would still be my main source of income.


Thanks

Damian

 

[nkruger]

I gotta admit that a car mechanic can't possibly raise enough money to start playing the FTSE100 on a daily basis.

Interesting assumption......

Any car mechanic worth his salt would be earning £30k at least. A couple of grand out to start SBing.... seems ok to me.

 

[shadowninja]

LOL - becoming an expert in the female sex requires skills way beyond those of a lowly stock trader.

The markets can be difficult to deal with at times, but that's nothing compared to the skill and determination required to maintain a good relationship.....

Who said anything about maintaining a relationship? I just meant the approach.

 

[damianoakley]

Who said anything about maintaining a relationship? I just meant the approach.

LOL - unless you're Brad Pitt, I'd say that most guys have to learn to deal with a certain amount of rejection every Friday night...!


Damian

 

[Tawe Trader]

I gotta admit that a car mechanic can't possibly raise enough money to start playing the FTSE100 on a daily basis.

This statement also got my attention.

Any half-decent car mechanic should have a spare £1000 - stick that in a spreadbetting account and trade the FTSE at 50p or £1 a pt. This is an great way to learn about the mkts and yourself !

 

[Tawe Trader]

After re-reading my post above it sounds like I am encouraging gambling, which I am not.

I wouldn't advise any complete beginner to put £1000 in a s/bet account and trade from the off, you may as well stick a grand on a horse this Sat.

What I meant to say was that if after getting interested in trading, having read a few books and spent many hours reading up on it on the net, I believe trading one mkt with a very small stake with real money (that you can afford to lose) will accelerate you're learning curve rather than paper trading and/or trading a demo account.

When trading a mkt for real you will be subjected to all the tricks that occur throughout the trading day and your good old fear and greed emotions will come out of the woodwork also.

 

[sidewinder]

Any half-decent car mechanic should have a spare £1000

You don't know car mechanics very well

 

[BSD]

LOL - unless you're Brad Pitt, I'd say that most guys have to learn to deal with a certain amount of rejection every Friday night...!

You write good posts Damian, but this caught my eye: being good looking certainly by no means throws a monkey wrench into your efforts, however, good looks alone definitely don't offer an automatic antidote against shyness and resulting insecurity either.

Many beautiful people probably have far bigger issues with self-confidence than their more normal looking brethren because of a socialisation where they get far fewer approaches from admirers fearing rejection than your "average looker". Also, they continously have to deal with envy and far higher expectations and under far greater scrutiny from others just waiting for an opportunity to take them down a peg or two.

The problem with the resulting insecurity though is that that is probably the biggest imaginable turn-off, right next to not having showered or showing up looking and acting like some distant cousin from the disowned, inbred part of the family.

Elvis was one good looking chap before he ran to obesity according to most interpretations, but he had periods of insecurity during his movie making era where he was prowling the streets of Beverly Hills hungering for attention and admiration that he simply wasn't getting from the satiated crowd there, unfortunately in a vicious cycle, the self-fulfilling prophecy mode of things made him even more desperate, which in turn made him even more unattractive to those around him.

I believe confidence is key in attracting others, or success, or, come to that, pretty much everything this life has to offer.

Most probably aren't born with the necessary amounts of confidence that are needed as lubricant to achieve your various objectives, but the good news is that faking it till you make it is an equally effective approach.

Mind / Will over matter, eh:

"Go Ahead....Smile!

Those that look on the bright side end up healthier and more successful than the rest of us. But guess what? Now researchers have a cheat sheet that can help you become more positive

Attitude adjustment The quickest way to get yourself into the positive-feedback loop that keeps optimists going strong (hard work leads to success, which leads to more self-confidence and a willingness to work even harder, which leads to...) is to act like one. What's more, studies looking at the "fake it till you make it" approach show that it can have a surprisingly strong--and immediate--impact on your emotions. In research at Wake Forest University, for example, scientists asked a group of 50 students to act like extroverts for 15 minutes in a group discussion, even if they didn't feel like it. The more assertive and energetic the students acted, the happier they were.

What's best about this kind of cognitive behavioral change is that it doesn't even require much faith, Segerstrom says. "You don't have to believe an antibiotic is going to work for it to work." The same is true of reaping the benefits of adopting a positive mindset."

In other words, Ugly S.O.B's.United needn't despair just yet

As Richard Branson is wont to say, Screw it, Let's (Just) do It

Best advice available !!!

 

[damianoakley]

That's a hell of post BSD and very insightful.

Quite how we got onto this topic I'm not sure, but fascinating nonetheless!

I happen to think that your analysis is spot-on and I have the same belief system as you in that people do react well to positive personalities. That's why you sometimes see beautiful girls with very average-looking guys with no money.....people find positive attitudes and quirky personalities very attractive, and things like physical attraction and financial stability come lower down the priority list.

In terms of applying that to trading, the phrase "positive things happen to positive people" is something I do live by, both in the business of trading and the business of attracting the opposite sex(!)


Thanks

Damian

 

[BSD]

the phrase "positive things happen to positive people" is something I do live by, both in the business of trading and the business of attracting the opposite sex(!)

Absolutely great stuff

First one needs to know what exactly one wants...

Then one needs to drum up an absolute will to achieve the objectives one's decided on (which includes getting the tools needed, eg as a trader learning about technical analysis, risk/reward ratios and money management)...

And the lubricant that finally gets it all done is absolute confidence in outcomes, ie letting go and accepting that the outcome of the individual trade or girl you're chatting up at the moment etc is pretty irrelevant in the big scheme of things, as long as you keep at what you're doing with diligence, but in a way where you're taking it seriously but playing it lightly, where you're having fun and don't have a care in the world because you know that at the end all will turn out well, and you will end up as a net profitable trader, or meet lots of girls, etc etc.

 

[SAINT]

"accepting that the outcome of the individual trade or girl you're chatting up at the moment etc is pretty irrelevant in the big scheme of things, as long as you keep at what you're doing with diligence, but in a way where you're taking it seriously but playing it lightly, where you're having fun and don't have a care in the world because you know that at the end all will turn out well, and you will end up as a net profitable trader, or meet lots of girls, etc etc."

Great shout Markus

I think the day you stop giving females the edge by seeing the chat up situation as
a scene of terror and judgement is a good day! Just be yourself, know that if it doesn't work out that it's a numbers game (re the sales). As the great Jay-Z once said "I've got 99 problems and a b**ch ain't one."

One of Jack Schwagers market wizards also said something like : "I don't get upset about
a losing trade. I look at each one as one of 10,000 or so trades i'll do in my life so I have no problem cutting a loser to stay in the game."

 

[BSD]

Very much agree Saint

Have a great weekend everybody.

 

[beebop]

"accepting that the outcome of the individual trade or girl you're chatting up at the moment etc is pretty irrelevant in the big scheme of things, as long as you keep at what you're doing with diligence, but in a way where you're taking it seriously but playing it lightly, where you're having fun and don't have a care in the world because you know that at the end all will turn out well, and you will end up as a net profitable trader, or meet lots of girls, etc etc."

Great shout Markus

I think the day you stop giving females the edge by seeing the chat up situation as
a scene of terror and judgement is a good day! Just be yourself, know that if it doesn't work out that it's a numbers game (re the sales). As the great Jay-Z once said "I've got 99 problems and a b**ch ain't one."

One of Jack Schwagers market wizards also said something like : "I don't get upset about
a losing trade. I look at each one as one of 10,000 or so trades i'll do in my life so I have no problem cutting a loser to stay in the game."

Speaking as a girl, the most attractive thing a bloke can do is combine confidence with humour, then looks won't really matter. There is always another girl to chat up, house to buy, trade, poker hand......

 

[Richie_A]

Snownation - Actuarial Science at LSE?