Wanting to automate spread betting

Mike & Anna

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Hi,

Firstly, sorry if this is a bit long.

We are Mike & Anna; a couple who, starting as complete novices, have experimentally spread betted FTSE and DAX for about 3 years now. During our experimentation we have consistently used 2 platforms; Finspreads and Capital Spreads. The incentive was the hope of it funding our 'dropping out' as soon as we could rely on it. To fund ourselves through this time, one of us has always worked whilst the other has experimentally spread traded (and vice versa).

We have decided to enter this forum because we now need the help of more programming-experienced spread betters and hope to find some here to chat with.

Over the many months we have been plugging away at this I suppose we have come to no longer consider ourselves newbies. Equally though, having been through what I assume are the usual teething pangs (we have been have been bust and back several times), we are under no illusions about the sudden rush to wealth so often mentioned in the sales blurb of the various panacea's out there. "Imagine what you would do with an extra £50,000 a month" Yeah right :LOL:

Anyway, a few thousand pounds and long laborious months staring at screens later, we think that we have got a formula that finally works for us. It is not sexy. It does not make huge numbers of points per day. However, much more importantly, for the last two months it has made an average of 8.5 points per day with signals that have proven a 0.81 probability of success using fixed stop loss and limit orders.

We now know we need to make two improvements:-

Firstly, the platform. During the development of this formula we have tried to test our idea developments as scientifically as possible and tried to gather as much data (or at least info) on each trade as we could. We have concluded that there is a gulf in performance (spread, reliability of graph feeds and trade execution times) between our two platforms (I use Finspreads and Anna uses Capitalspreads). Suffice to say, based on our data, everything is going onto Capitalspreads for the next stage.

Secondly, to automate. We have looked at the performance data and can see that it would make even more based on the same signals if we could automate the process such that, for example, at given numbers of pips rise from entry of a buy, stop loss and limit orders could move accordingly. However, this would need to be repeatedly re-executed at a rate faster than we would be keen to do the maths for.

Does anyone here have experience of software that can intercept the market data used to fill the fields on the platform and use it to calculate and operate trading instructions based on variables the user can determine, specifically with the capital spreads platform? Is there something cheap off the shelf that can be modified or has someone written anything from scratch?

Hopefully hear from you soon.

Regards,

Mike & Anna.
 
To automate trading in this sense would require the SB company to have an API and of course none of them do.


Paul
 
Hi,

Firstly, sorry if this is a bit long.

We are Mike & Anna; a couple who, starting as complete novices, have experimentally spread betted FTSE and DAX for about 3 years now. During our experimentation we have consistently used 2 platforms; Finspreads and Capital Spreads. The incentive was the hope of it funding our 'dropping out' as soon as we could rely on it. To fund ourselves through this time, one of us has always worked whilst the other has experimentally spread traded (and vice versa).

We have decided to enter this forum because we now need the help of more programming-experienced spread betters and hope to find some here to chat with.

Over the many months we have been plugging away at this I suppose we have come to no longer consider ourselves newbies. Equally though, having been through what I assume are the usual teething pangs (we have been have been bust and back several times), we are under no illusions about the sudden rush to wealth so often mentioned in the sales blurb of the various panacea's out there. "Imagine what you would do with an extra £50,000 a month" Yeah right :LOL:

Anyway, a few thousand pounds and long laborious months staring at screens later, we think that we have got a formula that finally works for us. It is not sexy. It does not make huge numbers of points per day. However, much more importantly, for the last two months it has made an average of 8.5 points per day with signals that have proven a 0.81 probability of success using fixed stop loss and limit orders.

We now know we need to make two improvements:-

Firstly, the platform. During the development of this formula we have tried to test our idea developments as scientifically as possible and tried to gather as much data (or at least info) on each trade as we could. We have concluded that there is a gulf in performance (spread, reliability of graph feeds and trade execution times) between our two platforms (I use Finspreads and Anna uses Capitalspreads). Suffice to say, based on our data, everything is going onto Capitalspreads for the next stage.

Secondly, to automate. We have looked at the performance data and can see that it would make even more based on the same signals if we could automate the process such that, for example, at given numbers of pips rise from entry of a buy, stop loss and limit orders could move accordingly. However, this would need to be repeatedly re-executed at a rate faster than we would be keen to do the maths for.

Does anyone here have experience of software that can intercept the market data used to fill the fields on the platform and use it to calculate and operate trading instructions based on variables the user can determine, specifically with the capital spreads platform? Is there something cheap off the shelf that can be modified or has someone written anything from scratch?

Hopefully hear from you soon.

Regards,

Mike & Anna.

Can I ask if your statistics of 8.5 points a day and .81 probability are the result of backtesting or from actually trading? If it is from backtesting different stop and take profit levels then you may not have a very good system at all. However if its from actual trading over a substantial period of time then you may be on to something.

Personally I would forget about spreadbetting, even if you have a good system and can automate it the spreadbetting company will soon find a way to screw it up if you start making money. Remember they can basically do whatever they want to the spread or the price. If you are serious about doing this then you need to trade in the real market and trade futures. When you are trading futures you are not trading against the broker, they dont care if you win or lose as they get their fees from the commission you pay for each trade. I dont know about commission for the Dax and FTSE but for the S&P 500 its from $1.75 to $5 per contract a trade and there is effectively no spread.

There are many futures platforms that allow automated trading, for example Tradestation allows you to write strategies based on indicators with automated buy and sell actions etc. If you system is relatively simple such as sell when X moving average crosses Y moving average then it is actually very easy to program and there are hundreds of people who can do this for you.
 
Can I ask if your statistics of 8.5 points a day and .81 probability are the result of backtesting or from actually trading? If it is from backtesting different stop and take profit levels then you may not have a very good system at all. However if its from actual trading over a substantial period of time then you may be on to something.

Personally I would forget about spreadbetting, even if you have a good system and can automate it the spreadbetting company will soon find a way to screw it up if you start making money. Remember they can basically do whatever they want to the spread or the price. If you are serious about doing this then you need to trade in the real market and trade futures. When you are trading futures you are not trading against the broker, they dont care if you win or lose as they get their fees from the commission you pay for each trade. I dont know about commission for the Dax and FTSE but for the S&P 500 its from $1.75 to $5 per contract a trade and there is effectively no spread.

There are many futures platforms that allow automated trading, for example Tradestation allows you to write strategies based on indicators with automated buy and sell actions etc. If you system is relatively simple such as sell when X moving average crosses Y moving average then it is actually very easy to program and there are hundreds of people who can do this for you.

Thanks.

The results are from actually trading. I agree they were higher when only paper trading and we concluded that the reason was because when actually 'trading' (playing probabilities/gambling), we we've been too inclined to sit and stare at the graphs and 'meddle', usually to our detriment. The spread betting platforms in the UK are tax free. This is what attracted us to them in the first place.

The spread trading companies claim they just take the spread and that they pit us against a fund of money provided by venture capitalists (but obviously we don't really believe this). Having said this, we have not to date seen that they have changed the trading conditions (rules) their service is offered under. However we are testing at minimal stakes and so our winnings have been small in real terms. Maybe this is why we haven't yet seen them stacking the odds against us.

I don't know anything much about futures trading. I'll have a read around.

Thanks again :)

Mike.
 
Thanks.

The results are from actually trading. I agree they were higher when only paper trading and we concluded that the reason was because when actually 'trading' (playing probabilities/gambling), we we've been too inclined to sit and stare at the graphs and 'meddle', usually to our detriment. The spread betting platforms in the UK are tax free. This is what attracted us to them in the first place.

The spread trading companies claim they just take the spread and that they pit us against a fund of money provided by venture capitalists (but obviously we don't really believe this). Having said this, we have not to date seen that they have changed the trading conditions (rules) their service is offered under. However we are testing at minimal stakes and so our winnings have been small in real terms. Maybe this is why we haven't yet seen them stacking the odds against us.

I don't know anything much about futures trading. I'll have a read around.

Thanks again :)

Mike.

Mike

The tax thing sounds good but when you really look into how much you are paying in spreads never mind 'slippage' then you'll see thats its no advantage at all.
 
I sent you guys a PM. I run several automated spreading strategies and I think I might be able to help
 
As far as I know they are spreadbetting not trading spreads.

I wouldn't touch Capital Dreads with a bargepole. They can't get prices right on their demo, never mind live platform. Anyone see ftse 100 this morning? I had a buy stop in place, got filled 12 points BELOW it, price never went anywhere near the order price. On querying with CS if spread had gone through the roof for a moment, the reply was basically 'oops'. If your edge is 8 a day and they're filling 12 out you're onto a BIG loser
 
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It is always good to know how other traders fair with brokers - with enough stats, you can decide which ones to disount if you are looking to switch brokers
 
I wouldn't touch Capital Dreads with a bargepole. They can't get prices right on their demo, never mind live platform. Anyone see ftse 100 this morning? I had a buy stop in place, got filled 12 points BELOW it, price never went anywhere near the order price. On querying with CS if spread had gone through the roof for a moment, the reply was basically 'oops'. If your edge is 8 a day and they're filling 12 out you're onto a BIG loser

Neither of us has experienced anything like that with them (don't want to tempt fate here so I'll add "touchwood that is" :whistling) and I can quite see how that would be a major flaw.

Actually, compared to the other platform, they seem much more consistent and execution times seem quite quick. The main problem with the other platform was the temporary deafness they seem to suffer when attempting to get them to close a sudden movement in my favour. That happened countless times. The other thing was that graphs seemed to be flakey, with delays building between on graph and platform prices changing by up a minute and sudden loss of new data at critical times like just before DOW opens. Often I'd phone them to ask if there was a problem with the graphs again and they would act as if they were unaware of any previous problems, check and come back on the line to say IT are dealing with it. At that point, being told that the graphs are only offered for guidance is NOT helpful.

In terms of automating, we are thinking we should try to find an alternative source of real time market data and use that to calculate our trigger values, then have a programme that sets up and modifies the trades specifically written for the platform.

Can anyone suggest a cheap source of real time market data for FTSE?

Mike & Anna
 
Yes we are spread betting.

Hi Mike and Anna,

Just a word of advice. Sign up with someone like ODL MT4 and use those
Graphs as a reference while your trading with any SB company. This way
you can determine whether the market has moved in a certain way and it
takes the excuses about the brokers out of the scenario. Your broker wont
be able to influence another companys charts so it will give you more correct
information when your in a trade.

Theres nothing worse than being in a trade and thinking the brokers are screwing
you over rather than thinking my trade is wrong, get out and wait for the next setup
as my trading plan is right.

I see your from the beautiful Sweden. My wife was born in Karlskrona and has family in
Gothenberg and Stockholm.

Ged :)
 
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...or just trade futures in the real market and forget about all the tricks these SB companies use to take money off you.

However if you want a non expiring demo with decent charts try FXpro as they have some indices as well as fx. They now have a web based system as well so you don't even need to download mt4.
 
...or just trade futures in the real market and forget about all the tricks these SB companies use to take money off you.

However if you want a non expiring demo with decent charts try FXpro as they have some indices as well as fx. They now have a web based system as well so you don't even need to download mt4.

Pboyles,

Not all people may have the margin to trade futures and if they do some people
will be taking huge risks with a small account. With SB as long as your not trying
to scalp there aren't any problems as the SB's can hedge your positions and traders
can spread their risk in a safe manner.

But hey each to their own i suppose

Ged
 
Pboyles,

Not all people may have the margin to trade futures and if they do some people
will be taking huge risks with a small account. With SB as long as your not trying
to scalp there aren't any problems as the SB's can hedge your positions and traders
can spread their risk in a safe manner.

But hey each to their own i suppose

Ged

Hi all,

Sorry about not staying current for a while.

Yes we are trying to run this on a low budget and don't have the capital to buy and sell hence our predisposition to tax free spread betting.

Mike
 
Unless you are doing anything particularly different or special I would recommend metatrader.
 
Unless you are doing anything particularly different or special I would recommend metatrader.

Hi All,

I am a newbie :)

I have been trade for a little while with limited success. I am also look to have an automated system to spread bet. But I would like to use Tradestation.

Can you use tradestation to automate trading with a spread betting broker?
 
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