video card purchase assistance...

[jmiles301]

i'm thinking about adding 2 more monitors to my current dual monitor setup and i realized that the first part of this process is finding a good video card for a reasonable price. however, i'm not much of a "techy" and i don't really know where to begin the hunt. i don't exactly know what constitutes a good card vs. a fair card, and i'm also uneducated in what some may consider the "must haves" of any card. i know that you can find cheap cards all over the place, but my problem is that i simply don't have a foundation to compare, and without that it can be quite overwhelming. can anyone provide me with some assistance and/or direction about where to begin this process, or even list some of the "must haves" so that i have an idea of what to look for?

any help would be greatly appreciated.

jon

edit: if you need any more specifics about my current setup just let me know...

 

[wheezergeezer]

In my experience one pc with high spec cpu 3500+ and minimun 2GB of Ram, with 2 monitors is enough, if you add more monitors you will over work the cpu plus you will need even more Ram, so ideally 2 pc's + 2 monitors each !
use a graphic card with a 256mb of ram as minimum spec, something like a Radeon 9550 or similar
should be satifactory.....good luck

 

[wheezergeezer]

Ps

In my experience one pc with high spec cpu 3500+ and minimun 2GB of Ram, with 2 monitors is enough, if you add more monitors you will over work the cpu plus you will need even more Ram, so ideally 2 pc's + 2 monitors each !
use a graphic card with a 256mb of ram as minimum spec, something like a Radeon 9550 or similar
should be satisfactory.....good luck

Your existing pc's motherboard can probably only accommodate (1) one graphic card ! so check before you buy

 

[dcraig1]

Your existing card is almost certainly AGP or PCI-Express. You will probably need to get a PCI card which you can plug into an empty PCI slot. A card with 64 MByte of memory is quite sufficient to drive two 19" LCD monitors at 24 bit colour depth.

You don't need high powered 3D graphics cards for the type of 2D graphics used in trading. Better to get a 2D workstation type card. One example is the Nvidia NVS 280. Dual VGA or DVI outputs. DVI up to 1600x1200. Passively cooled - no fan to potentially fail and create more noise. Power consumption is 21W which is a lot lower than most 3D gaming type cards. Lower power usually means longer life and a cooler system overall.

Another possibility is Matrox G550.

If you get an NVS280 off eBay, make sure it comes with the DMS-59 Y-Cable - either VGA or DVI depending on your monitors.

 

[MarkB]

Hi jmiles301,

I added a couple more monitors to my existing setup last year. The card I had was a Radeon 7000 series 64mb running in the AGP slot. I matched this with another Radeon 7000 64mb but got one for a PCI slot. Both of these work fine together and use the same drivers, each one has 1 DVI and 1 VGA output. I have my two 19" screens running off the DVI outputs and the 17" off one of the VGA outputs.

This was one multi head card I found

http://www.quadvision.co.uk/Products/graphics-cards.htm

but like dcraig1 points out is probably a bit OTT for trading purposes.

Hope this helps.

 

[ewilcox]

In my experience one pc with high spec cpu 3500+ and minimun 2GB of Ram, with 2 monitors is enough, if you add more monitors you will over work the cpu

:cheesy:

Sorry (u hum...clearing throat)... Wrong. CPU usage has nothing to do with number of monitors connected to the computer. It totally depends on what you use (application wise) to put on each monitor. If each trading application uses 25% of your CPU (and thats being incredibly generous to the hopeless programmer who wrote your sorry program) then your PC will be able to run 4 instances of the application assuming 1 per monitor. Equally for trading applications in general the type of graphics card is not particularly important and any PCI, AGP or PCI-E board should be fine. For what its worth though If you are thinking of building a new PC now though a good suggestion might be to get a dual PCI-E motherboard to be able to run two dual DVI based cards for 4 LCD monitors. That would be a pretty sweet setup for a trading PC imho

 

[wheezergeezer]

:cheesy:

It totally depends on what you use (application wise) to put on each monitor. If each trading application uses 25% of your CPU (and thats being incredibly generous to the hopeless programmer who wrote your sorry program) then your PC will be able to run 4 instances of the application assuming 1 per monitor. Equally for trading applications in general the type of graphics card is not particularly important and any PCI, AGP or PCI-E board should be fine. For what its worth though If you are thinking of building a new PC now though a good suggestion might be to get a dual PCI-E motherboard to be able to run two dual DVI based cards for 4 LCD monitors. That would be a pretty sweet setup for a trading PC imho

DUDE, try and run your monitors with out a cpu if it as you say I quote nothing to do" Sorry (u hum...clearing throat)... Wrong. CPU usage has nothing to do with number of monitors connected to the computer."

 

[anley]

It might work if you add 4 mons to a system then again it might not, a lottery for sure. But what will work is buying another PC and adding 2 monitors to this, in my view a far better idea and far more stable.

A not bad spec PC (P4 + 1gb ram) can be bought for around £350 (inc vat) from Dell which for most people is perfect.

Then buy this piece of software Multiplicity from Stardock which makes it simple to control 2 or 3 different machines from the one keyboard/mouse, just move the mouse from screen to screen. It's great

 

[theknifemac]

Then buy this piece of software Multiplicity from Stardock which makes it simple to control 2 or 3 different machines from the one keyboard/mouse, just move the mouse from screen to screen. It's great

Or download Synergy which does the same thing and is free
http://sourceforge.net/projects/synergy2

 

[ewilcox]

lol - ok without a CPU might be a very good idea but then again if you're going to try that I suggest trading might not be for you. I qualify my comment thus..

CPU usage has nothing to do with the number of monitors attached but Of course 0 CPU's translates directly to 0 working monitors.

Ah the knife returns. Whats up mate? Drop me a line sometime.

 

[LuckyBucks]

I use the charts on IG index to trade US stocks, and can sensibly monitor about 9 intraday charts on one screen. I need to monitor about 30 charts while I wait for the right setups. I'm going to use my current computer for execution and go buy another more powerful computer for use with three more screens. Has anyone gone out and bought a computer all ready to go with the right video cards etc. What sort of specs do I need to watch around 30 realtime charts on three or four screens? Currently I am using 1gb or RAM, but is this enough? I keep getting mixed answers to this last question.

 

[dcraig1]

I use the charts on IG index to trade US stocks, and can sensibly monitor about 9 intraday charts on one screen. I need to monitor about 30 charts while I wait for the right setups. I'm going to use my current computer for execution and go buy another more powerful computer for use with three more screens. Has anyone gone out and bought a computer all ready to go with the right video cards etc. What sort of specs do I need to watch around 30 realtime charts on three or four screens? Currently I am using 1gb or RAM, but is this enough? I keep getting mixed answers to this last question.

1Gig of RAM should be enough. It depends on what software you are running - there is no definitive answer.

For video cards you do NOT need high powered 3D graphics cards. This is not gaming. The best and cheapest choice is low power fanless dual head cards such as Nvidia NVS 280/285 or Matrox G550. These are generally known as workstation 2D graphics cards. ATI also make cards of this class but I forget the model. You can pickup these cards on ebay fairly cheaply.

Make sure you get the right type eg PCI, PCI-E AGP. If you are buying Nvidia NVS cards make sure they come with the correct Y cable for your monitors ie either DSUB (VGA) or DVI.

Incidently, I use a Linux box with 3 x NVS280 cards, 1Gig memory, 6x19" panels and just an Athlon 2800 XP. I also have a digital TV (DTB) tuner card to watch tele when things are dull. Performance is satisfactory even with digital TV on. I will upgrade to a dual core box sometime, but to be honest, I could live with this setup indefinately.

 

[daytradingUK]

For a modern trading system you don't need more than 1GB of RAM (running any OS upto and including WinXP). However if current speculation about Windows Vista is accurate then 1GB will become the minimum system. However all is not lost - you can buy and fit another 512MB of memory for between £20 and £60 (if u have slots free).

As to the main part of the thread if you have AGP or PCI-E you can get away with buying a single PCI graphics card for a relatively cheap amount. Do not go blowing more than £80 as you will be buying a gaming graphics card (for comparison I play video games and so have an expensive card pair - which stayed top of the line for about 3 months! Don't go bleeding edge). Also do not get talked into technology like SLI (links two graphics cards together) as they are always expensive and can be tempremental, and don't get Shared memory graphics cards as these nick system RAM and slow down your PC.

Hope this info helps you and if you get any issues I will try and talk you through them (ex-system builder)

 

[LuckyBucks]

Thanks, I'm beginning to build up a picture of the many ways of setting up a 4-6 screen trading system. I'm currently using a Celeron 2.93GHZ processor with 1.2GB RAM, with one screen, and I sometimes have three live realtime data programs running at the same time and feel like I need something at least ten times as powerful so as to manage all the data and charts I use every day quickly (I don't want to have to wait more than a fraction of a second for any of my charts to come up, or I lose money). My greatest fear is that I go out and buy a top of the range dual core p4 system, stick four to six screens on it and then find it still can't handle the work load because I really needed a gaming video card or some other part of the system isn't high spec enough. Any system is only as powerful as its weakest link.

I'm wondering, how many charts are you watching realtime, and how many realtime programs are you running on your system? I could be running IGIndex charts, CMC markets execution platform, futuresbetting execution platform and probably directaccesselite, or some other US stocks trading account platform. I just cannot believe 1GB RAM is nearly enough for this sort of thing. My current computer literally crawls around with more than two systems running at any one time.

By the way, if you were going out to set up a brand new 6 screen system right now, (with four or five realtime systems running simultaneously) what sort of specs would you choose so as to be on the very safe side in terms of power for the next 2-3 years?

1Gig of RAM should be enough. It depends on what software you are running - there is no definitive answer.

For video cards you do NOT need high powered 3D graphics cards. This is not gaming. The best and cheapest choice is low power fanless dual head cards such as Nvidia NVS 280/285 or Matrox G550. These are generally known as workstation 2D graphics cards. ATI also make cards of this class but I forget the model. You can pickup these cards on ebay fairly cheaply.

Make sure you get the right type eg PCI, PCI-E AGP. If you are buying Nvidia NVS cards make sure they come with the correct Y cable for your monitors ie either DSUB (VGA) or DVI.

Incidently, I use a Linux box with 3 x NVS280 cards, 1Gig memory, 6x19" panels and just an Athlon 2800 XP. I also have a digital TV (DTB) tuner card to watch tele when things are dull. Performance is satisfactory even with digital TV on. I will upgrade to a dual core box sometime, but to be honest, I could live with this setup indefinately.

 

[LuckyBucks]

Thanks for all the advice on graphics cards, all very useful. I just can't believe 1GB RAM is enough for running 6 screens with about 8 IGIndex charts on each 19 inch screen. I think the minimum for me is 2GB. The more charts I put up the harder it is for my current computer to cope, but then it is only a 2.93GHZ Celeron with 1.2GB RAM. Both you and dcraig1 have said high powered gaming cards are not necessary for trading systems. I really need to get to the bottom of this because I need to run alot of charts. The more charts I can run and monitor at the same time the easier it is for me to make money. If a gamining card increases speed and perfomance thats what I'll be buying.

Just out of interest, what specs does your setup have and how many charts are you monitoring realtime? If your only monitoring something like 3 or 4 charts at any one time you really can't compare it to what I need to be doing.

Does anyone on this list monitor 50 realtime charts on multiple screens??? If so, how do you deal with it?

For a modern trading system you don't need more than 1GB of RAM (running any OS upto and including WinXP). However if current speculation about Windows Vista is accurate then 1GB will become the minimum system. However all is not lost - you can buy and fit another 512MB of memory for between £20 and £60 (if u have slots free).

As to the main part of the thread if you have AGP or PCI-E you can get away with buying a single PCI graphics card for a relatively cheap amount. Do not go blowing more than £80 as you will be buying a gaming graphics card (for comparison I play video games and so have an expensive card pair - which stayed top of the line for about 3 months! Don't go bleeding edge). Also do not get talked into technology like SLI (links two graphics cards together) as they are always expensive and can be tempremental, and don't get Shared memory graphics cards as these nick system RAM and slow down your PC.

Hope this info helps you and if you get any issues I will try and talk you through them (ex-system builder)

 

[dcraig1]

Thanks, I'm beginning to build up a picture of the many ways of setting up a 4-6 screen trading system. I'm currently using a Celeron 2.93GHZ processor with 1.2GB RAM, with one screen, and I sometimes have three live realtime data programs running at the same time and feel like I need something at least ten times as powerful so as to manage all the data and charts I use every day quickly (I don't want to have to wait more than a fraction of a second for any of my charts to come up, or I lose money). My greatest fear is that I go out and buy a top of the range dual core p4 system, stick four to six screens on it and then find it still can't handle the work load because I really needed a gaming video card or some other part of the system isn't high spec enough. Any system is only as powerful as its weakest link.

I'm wondering, how many charts are you watching realtime, and how many realtime programs are you running on your system? I could be running IGIndex charts, CMC markets execution platform, futuresbetting execution platform and probably directaccesselite, or some other US stocks trading account platform. I just cannot believe 1GB RAM is nearly enough for this sort of thing. My current computer literally crawls around with more than two systems running at any one time.

By the way, if you were going out to set up a brand new 6 screen system right now, (with four or five realtime systems running simultaneously) what sort of specs would you choose so as to be on the very safe side in terms of power for the next 2-3 years?

The Celeron is a bit of a lightweight processor. I think it has a pretty small L2 cache, which may be a significant factor if you are running apps that use a lot of memory. Performance issues though are very complex and difficult to theorise about and come up with correct conclusions.

I would recommend that you get 2 Gig memory. Memory is fairly cheap and it certainly wont do any harm. Especially if you are running several Java applications concurrently.

Listen to what is being said about graphics cards. I use realtime charting software that I have written myself in Java. I did some benchmarking of charting performance at one stage. I came to the conclusion that the overwhelmingly dominant factor was CPU performance - not GPU performance - with the Nvidia NVS 280. A gamer would not spit on an NVS 280, because 3D performance is comparatively weak, but 2D performance is fine. Remember that some of the expensive 3D graphics cards are quite power hungry putting extra load on the power supply. Although they have their own fan, you have to get that hot air out of the PC case. Fans wear out, can get very noisy as the bearings wear out. Fanless is quiter and more reliable. This is important if you have 3 or 4 cards installed in your machine.

I may have possibly 20 charts on the go at once, but I have cranked it up to 100 or more for some load testing. Normally CPU utilisation is < 25%.

If you are, or intend, running several real time apps at once go for a dual core CPU. All the benchmarks show the Intel Core 2 Duo outperforming Athlon X2. However these are benchmarks, and not the same software you will be running so are at best are guidelines only. There is little cost benefit in going for the very fastest - for the huge premium you pay 10 % extra performance ( or similiar) is just not worth it. My choice at the moment would be Intel Core 2 Duo E6600. It is middle of the range (usually good value for money) and the cheapest of the Core 2 Duos with 4 Mb L2 cache. You wouln't go wrong though in chosing an AMD X2 dual core processor.

Of course quad core CPUs are about to be released into the wild in the next few months - so the game will change again.

In summary, my recommendation:

Core 2 Duo E6600
2 Gig
Fanless dual head graphics cards eg NVS280, Matrox G550. There are others.

 

[rossored]

In summary, my recommendation:

Core 2 Duo E6600
2 Gig
Fanless dual head graphics cards eg NVS280, Matrox G550. There are others.

I've just put together a Core2Duo E6400 with 1GB of RAM - mate of mine has similarly built an A64 X2 AM2 4800+ with 2GB RAM - he took a gig out and in terms of office apps and gaming, my system kicks his into touch. There is a noticeable performance difference between Intel and AMD at the moment, although AMD will no doubt come back shortly with another salvo.

If you're building or buying a new system now, dual-core is definately the way to go. From an upgrade perspective on the cheap - add more system RAM instead.

 

[daytradingUK]

LuckyBucks not trying to dampen your spirits but instead of getting 6 screens (which sounds excessive - only flight sim people use that many monitors, in the dealer desks most have max 3/4) you might consider getting a large 32" or 42" high res screen and use that instead. Then you don't have seven tons of wires.

CoreDuo also has the benefit of being a common socket at the minute, AMD are changing the number of processor pins about once every 6 months and a 940 processor can't fit in a 939 socket! Annoying to say the least.

If you are going the 6 screen route you may struggle to use them all - I have 2 large TFT screens and they are just about right for my dev and trading work.

As far as your PC horsepower goes if your trading software slows your system with anything above a 3GHz Intel or AMD XP2800+ processor and a 1GB of memory then it is badly coded and the programmer needs taking out back and hitting with a rubber hose!

 

[LuckyBucks]

Thanks, I am now considering "42" screens. Think I'll see what PC World is offering tomorrow.
This will mean less mouse hassles, less wiring and less graphics cards.

LuckyBucks not trying to dampen your spirits but instead of getting 6 screens (which sounds excessive - only flight sim people use that many monitors, in the dealer desks most have max 3/4) you might consider getting a large 32" or 42" high res screen and use that instead. Then you don't have seven tons of wires.

CoreDuo also has the benefit of being a common socket at the minute, AMD are changing the number of processor pins about once every 6 months and a 940 processor can't fit in a 939 socket! Annoying to say the least.

If you are going the 6 screen route you may struggle to use them all - I have 2 large TFT screens and they are just about right for my dev and trading work.

As far as your PC horsepower goes if your trading software slows your system with anything above a 3GHz Intel or AMD XP2800+ processor and a 1GB of memory then it is badly coded and the programmer needs taking out back and hitting with a rubber hose!