Trading with a view to join a prop firm

Nowler

Active member
Sep 13, 2017
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#1
Hello,
I am relatively new to trading (forex) and after some thinking and advice from a few people I have decided to give priority to establishing a trading record with a smooth growth curve in the hopes of impressing a prop firm or some other type of company that will hire me to trade.

I've been told that a 1-2 year record (minimum) would be required in order to convince a prop firm that I am worth investing in (hiring), but what are the chances of finding a firm that will hire me now? With 6 months of trading under my belt? Am I wasting my time looking for a firm to train/hire me with only 6 months of trading?

I have compiled a list of what the firm would get below.

- A single, enthusiastic 30 year old male.
- Thrives off challenges!
- Willing to move anywhere in the world in a relatively short space of time (I can get access to relocation funds but I would need to get a wage within 2 weeks).
- I believe I have a knack for trading because I have taken to this like a duck to water. I literally love it! It just makes sense...even though I have never done anything like this prior to 6 months ago.
- My equity curve is now on a smooth upward trend (1 month) after the first few months of learning and losing 60% of my account (only down 47% now)
- I embrace risk/money management as it's a pillar of my trading.
- Currently putting 10+ hours per day into learning to trade so I have no problem putting in the work and I am always keeping my eyes and ears open between trading sessions.
- I don't have "a big male ego", so if I am wrong, I am wrong. I move on and do my best to ensure I am right the next time.

What I want from them:
- To be trained
- To be paid
- To be treated with decency

I have no education in business/economics. I am not mathematically gifted but can of course do simple math. Plus, we are never more than an arm's length from a calculator :)
I have some form of dyslexia but this is more of a benefit than a hinderance as it allows me to operate on a different level than most and during my examination by an educational psych we discovered that I have an elevated ability with abstract thinking and mental rotation type things. This, in my opinion, is probably why I find comfort in a technical chart. I have never done it in my life but yet since I started I feel like this is where I am supposed to be... if that makes any sense.

I'm pretty sure academic snobbery will exclude me from getting a job at an investment bank but am I wasting my time trying to find a prop firm that will hire me with 6 months independent trading under my belt?

Also,
Could someone please help me structure a contact message to a prop firm.
What do I say that would give me the best chance?

Thanks
 

Nowler

Active member
Sep 13, 2017
757
51
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#2
Also...
How do I find these prop firms?
Is there a directory for these or a list?

Perhaps I get some sort of a list of all firms in the UK for example and then start at the top and work my way down until I find one that is willing to invest in me?
 

Quantt

Active member
Jul 23, 2017
945
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#3
Also...
How do I find these prop firms?
Is there a directory for these or a list?

Perhaps I get some sort of a list of all firms in the UK for example and then start at the top and work my way down until I find one that is willing to invest in me?
Please, please be very careful, because there is a popular scam going on: questionable prop trading firms looking for newbies to buy their education with promises of funding a trading account after, but they never do, just peddle more and more useless education...

In US to join a reputable trading firm as a trader, you'll have to get some of the industry exams for example, so lacking those prerequisites could be a red flag...

Read trough this review to gain some insight for red flags to look for...

https://www.tradingschools.org/reviews/trader2b/
 

Nowler

Active member
Sep 13, 2017
757
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#6
Please, please be very careful, because there is a popular scam going on: questionable prop trading firms looking for newbies to buy their education with promises of funding a trading account after, but they never do, just peddle more and more useless education...

In US to join a reputable trading firm as a trader, you'll have to get some of the industry exams for example, so lacking those prerequisites could be a red flag...

Read trough this review to gain some insight for red flags to look for...

https://www.tradingschools.org/reviews/trader2b/
Thanks for the heads up mate.
I won't be buying anything from anyone because I have no money to do so :)

If a firm wants me to pay a fee for using their facilities then I would do that but if they want me to come trade for them, then I would require them to train me. I'd be willing to pay for education out of my wages over a period of time, but as for paying someone significant money upfront... nah :)

I am not getting my hopes up about getting into a firm. I noticed with the crowd I just applied for that I need "mad skills" with excel... I can barely use excel haha
I've never needed to do much with it.

Though, I did foundation level maths in school because "I wasn't able for ordinary level", but then I turned around and passed advanced statistics in university... go figure!

Lets see if I even get a call from this crowd
 

Lee Shepherd

Well-known member
Feb 12, 2008
2,165
570
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#7
Also...
How do I find these prop firms?
Is there a directory for these or a list?

Perhaps I get some sort of a list of all firms in the UK for example and then start at the top and work my way down until I find one that is willing to invest in me?
Once you've found somewhere suitable, go visit them. Stalk their traders, hang out in their local and listen in, watch and pay attention to them. Ask to visit their offices.

Keep a good track record that is simple to read, digest and understand and can be proved via bank transfers and your brokers account. Then without arrogance but certainly with confidence, slap it on a head dealers desk or hirer for a prop firm. If they like it, and who doesn't like profit, will simply say, start on Monday.

Obviously you will start on a lower funding package but once proved you can operate within their operations, will quickly be further funded.

Lee.
 

Nowler

Active member
Sep 13, 2017
757
51
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#8
Once you've found somewhere suitable, go visit them. Stalk their traders, hang out in their local and listen in, watch and pay attention to them. Ask to visit their offices.

Keep a good track record that is simple to read, digest and understand and can be proved via bank transfers and your brokers account. Then without arrogance but certainly with confidence, slap it on a head dealers desk or hirer for a prop firm. If they like it, and who doesn't like profit, will simply say, start on Monday.

Obviously you will start on a lower funding package but once proved you can operate within their operations, will quickly be further funded.

Lee.
Cheers for the advice buddy!

I live in rural Ireland so meeting them isn't as easy as I would like.
Apart from this application I sent in to a prop in Dublin, I have no desire to stay here any longer. If I don't get into this prop in Dublin then I will probably move to the UK.

I'm not sure where yet though. I dont have the money to live in London and I have family near Stevenage so I might relocate to a middle ground between London and Stevenage? Perhaps then I would be able to surround myself with traders.

Should I have told this prop about my dyslexia?
I did... I used to feel like it was a disability but now I honestly believe it lends itself to techincal analysis. I framed it as such when emailing the firm. I was honest about my non-traditional education but I also emphasised my university results. I told them that I didnt finish secondary school and that I did foundation maths but I also pointed out that I busted my balls and earned myself the second best grade possible in uni and passed advanced statistics.

Lets see how it goes.
 

Nowler

Active member
Sep 13, 2017
757
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#9
...I am not getting my hopes up about getting into a firm...

Don't listen to me! It's all lies I tells ya...lies!
I am totally after getting my hopes up! :LOL:

I read pretty much their whole website, except for the article/blog and it seems too good to be true. They are looking for hard workers and nobody's going to work harder than me at this! I hope my email hit the nail on the head. If only it was that easy though, eh.

Bed time now anyway, maybe I'll be a bit more realistic in the morning.

PS: Does anyone actually know anything about Positive Equity in Dublin? Also based in Croatia
 

Lee Shepherd

Well-known member
Feb 12, 2008
2,165
570
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#10
Cheers for the advice buddy!



Should I have told this prop about my dyslexia?
I did... I used to feel like it was a disability but now I honestly believe it lends itself to techincal analysis. I framed it as such when emailing the firm. I was honest about my non-traditional education but I also emphasised my university results. I told them that I didnt finish secondary school and that I did foundation maths but I also pointed out that I busted my balls and earned myself the second best grade possible in uni and passed advanced statistics.

Lets see how it goes.
To be honest and truthful with you, no one gives a sh1t about any ailments disabilities or special attributes. This includes grades you did or didn't get at school or university. Its all about your track record. Can you make money or not? Your track record is your gateway to being funded, nothing else.

Lee
 

Nowler

Active member
Sep 13, 2017
757
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#11
To be honest and truthful with you, no one gives a sh1t about any ailments disabilities or special attributes. This includes grades you did or didn't get at school or university. Its all about your track record. Can you make money or not? Your track record is your gateway to being funded, nothing else.

Lee
After my little bit of drama Tuesday night, there goes my record...
It's not totally ruined but I am basically starting again.

I wonder how long until I get word back from them, if at all.
Part of me was actually expecting a call today because they emailed me very soon after I submitted my application/CV asking for clarification of my school/uni results, including math grade.

They seem quite proud of their charity work and embrace a "helping people" attitude. This makes me wonder why I didn't tell them that I went to Sri Lanka as a mental health volunteer and frequently organise or help out with charity events. Apart from me mentioning my slight but smooth upward trend in account equity (which is now gone) in the initial application, I forgot to mention these two things in the follow up email.

Would it look bad if I was to send them a follow up email with some of my trading stats and my charity work?
Out of 350 trades in 6 months I have a 45% record... and obviously this stat is muddied by all my losses in the beginning when I knew far less. I even wonder if I should have given them the link to my trading journal on here...

I probably shouldn't bother following up with another email stating these, right?
 
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Nowler

Active member
Sep 13, 2017
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#12
How much do you think Positive Equity pay their new recruits in the Trainee Trader Program?

I am just working out how close to the office I could afford to move to and work out other essential things. I don't see a figure on their site. I see potentially 30-50k after the first year but I need to know what i'm dealing with right away.


EDIT: I found a figure of €955-1k/month on a site called Glassdoor (dot) ie
I can get a place about 5miles from the office for about half of my monthly wage.
I then have the other half for food, gym and...probably not much left for anything else.

By the sounds of things, should I get accepted, I would be looking at 7:30am to 22:00pm type hours, so not much time to do anything else which would require money.
From what I gather, I could take 2-3 hours off during the day to workout and do non-trading things. Not really enough time to get some hours in a bar to bring in more money...
 
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Nowler

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Sep 13, 2017
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#13
I spoke with the founding partner and when I mentioned that I had about 350 trades in 6 months he responded with "We do around 30-50 trades per day. Your system sounds a little less intense and based on other indicators."

What sort of strategy do you suppose they employ there?
I spoke to him over 2 emails and didn't have the chance to ask about their strategy.
 

Quantt

Active member
Jul 23, 2017
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#14
I spoke with the founding partner and when I mentioned that I had about 350 trades in 6 months he responded with "We do around 30-50 trades per day. Your system sounds a little less intense and based on other indicators."

What sort of strategy do you suppose they employ there?
I spoke to him over 2 emails and didn't have the chance to ask about their strategy.
Manual HFT :)
 

Nowler

Active member
Sep 13, 2017
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#15
Should I be worried? :)

30-50 trades in a day works out at...4-6 trades/hr over an 8 hr period.
I am not sure what information/indicators they use to inform their trades but I could probably pull off 6 trades an hour just scalping pips here and there, or losing pips here and there :)

That's a lot of trades though!!
I wonder does a trade have to be closed before another one can be opened...
 

Quantt

Active member
Jul 23, 2017
945
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#16
Should I be worried? :)

30-50 trades in a day works out at...4-6 trades/hr over an 8 hr period.
I am not sure what information/indicators they use to inform their trades but I could probably pull off 6 trades an hour just scalping pips here and there, or losing pips here and there :)

That's a lot of trades though!!
I wonder does a trade have to be closed before another one can be opened...
Frankly I have no idea, since I am not into day trading, not saying it's not working, but it's not my cup of tea, unless you can automate it (hence the HFT reference)... Looks like very stressful job, if you have to do it day after day staring into screens all the time...
 

Nowler

Active member
Sep 13, 2017
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#17
Frankly I have no idea, since I am not into day trading, not saying it's not working, but it's not my cup of tea, unless you can automate it (hence the HFT reference)... Looks like very stressful job, if you have to do it day after day staring into screens all the time...
I am aware that in 2008 they reinvented themselves from the remains of an algo focused approach and from what I can tell, they still use it but only to a point. The human element is very much a part of their approach.

I am still optimistic and enthusiastic about it and at the very least it's a means to an end! I put up with a lot of crap where I am now and no support. At least i'll get support there with them and be encouraged to perform better...here....meh...let's just say I am looking forward to the opportunity to struggle in Dublin, staring at screens all day :)

Let's see if I snag an interview
 

Quantt

Active member
Jul 23, 2017
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#18
I am aware that in 2008 they reinvented themselves from the remains of an algo focused approach and from what I can tell, they still use it but only to a point. The human element is very much a part of their approach.

I am still optimistic and enthusiastic about it and at the very least it's a means to an end! I put up with a lot of crap where I am now and no support. At least i'll get support there with them and be encouraged to perform better...here....meh...let's just say I am looking forward to the opportunity to struggle in Dublin, staring at screens all day :)

Let's see if I snag an interview
I really, really hope it works out for you, so good luck and keep us posted...
 

Nowler

Active member
Sep 13, 2017
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#19
I really, really hope it works out for you, so good luck and keep us posted...
Me too buddy! Me too! :)
I'll certainly keep you all up to date. I really appreciate all the help i've gotten from you fine folks! Your efforts are not in vein