Trading: The Ultimate Challenge?

Trading...

  • Hardest thing ever! I know a little bit ghey.

    Votes: 6 46.2%

  • Kinell get ya nut in the game 20% of the smalls then smashing out an Ironman in the arvo's easy.

    Votes: 2 15.4%

  • One, then the other.

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • What was the question?

    Votes: 5 38.5%
  • Total voters
    13
W

Walter Mitty

Active member
Messages
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Skip to bottom to avoid Walts sob story👍

Six weeks of loooses, currently down YTD ('09,'11 were great years '10 was shat) and an a* the size of a dustbin lid after a jolly god rodgering from Mr Market's got me thinking that this trading lark's a bit on the difficult side.
I can honsetly say that trading is the most difficult of all the crazy shat that I've ever attempted, this includes; Hog wrestling, Marathon running, Midget throwing, Running through the changing rooms after ruggers without a towel and having been spiked with 100mg of viagra. Spelling lose instead of loose after 4 years on t2w. Spelling...after dropping out of Primary school and so on blah, blah.

So...is trading the most difficult and testing Thing that you've attempted/do?
If not, what is?
 
Lol no. I've come to think that its difficulty is severely overestimated.

As a small player, you have the ultimate edge: the ability to get in and out of the market anytime. You can choose your battles. You also do not have a single defined opponent, so you're up against an aggregate view of opinions.

One-on-one competition is, I find, much harder. Your opponent can adapt to you on the fly (which the market certainly does not do), and he's just as smart (if not smarter) than you are, and probably got in more matches than you ever did to boot.

No, small-time trading is about finding the right spot to get in for the trade you visualized, then getting out when you're either in profit or if you're wrong on the trade. And a good dollop of experience on top. Nothing more and nothing less.

That said, I think the real trading game starts when you have a more sizeable account that you can't just swing any way you want. That's when **** gets real and you have to start thinking about your counterparty and more strategic moves. But for small players, this is likely an inane venture of no value. You need to swing size to be subject to the market's games.
 
I used to make a living playing online poker. It was vastly more difficult than trading.

In fact many likely think playing poker is a good lifestyle. It most definately isn't. It sucked and i'm glad to be rid of it.
 
Walter Mitty said:
Skip to bottom to avoid Walts sob story👍

Six weeks of loooses, currently down YTD ('09,'11 were great years '10 was shat) and an a* the size of a dustbin lid after a jolly god rodgering from Mr Market's got me thinking that this trading lark's a bit on the difficult side.
I can honsetly say that trading is the most difficult of all the crazy shat that I've ever attempted, this includes; Hog wrestling, Marathon running, Midget throwing, Running through the changing rooms after ruggers without a towel and having been spiked with 100mg of viagra. Spelling lose instead of loose after 4 years on t2w. Spelling...after dropping out of Primary school and so on blah, blah.

So...is trading the most difficult and testing Thing that you've attempted/do?
If not, what is?
Click to expand...

is there an experienece you want to share with us🙂
 
VielGeld said:
As a small player, you have the ultimate edge: the ability to get in and out of the market anytime. You can choose your battles. You also do not have a single defined opponent, so you're up against an aggregate view of opinions.
Click to expand...

This is so true and so under-estimated and missed, and is as you say perhaps our biggest advantage - ie there are 3 types of positions, long, short and FLAT , ie wait until the right opportunities come along. - (I I know this sounds trite - you gotta know what they look like first and then have the patience/discipline to wait for them.)

G/L
 
BeginnerJoe said:
Live calling trades distracted him and resulted in mistakes.
Click to expand...

Don't be so silly Joe.
I know many of you find trading to be an absolute fudging doddle, I don't. It's the most difficult Thing I've ever done, that's all. I'm not afraid to say it.

Hey Joe this one's for you £300k lumped on MAN group @ 74.15p stops are for buses.
This could turn my year around or upside down.
Now watch this drive👍

 
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Walter Mitty said:
Hey Joe this one's for you £300k lumped on MAN group @ 74.15p stops are for buses.
This could turn my year around or upside down.
Click to expand...

Bottom fishing is an extremely dangerous game. Even if you don't loose this one, All your money will eventually end up riding on something that just won't stop going down. Don't say I haven't foretold your future.

Trading is easy once you stop gambling.
 
BeginnerJoe said:
Bottom fishing is an extremely dangerous game. Even if you don't loose this one, All your money will eventually end up riding on something that just won't stop going down. Don't say I haven't foretold your future.
Agree, but what happened to the 'average down old boy' attitude that you once had?
Trading is easy once you stop gambling.
Click to expand...
Trading is, and will always be a gamble as far as I'm concerned. If the trades you called are how you really do trade then you are gambling too. How can you really know what your maximum risk is using a ten pip stop or any stop for that matter?
 
Walter Mitty said:
Trading is, and will always be a gamble as far as I'm concerned. If the trades you called are how you really do trade then you are gambling too. How can you really know what your maximum risk is using a ten pip stop or any stop for that matter?
Click to expand...

10 pip stop is 10 pip risk. Max of 10 pip is still 10 pip. The average down old boy is saying "don't average down, old boy".

I have a better idea, send me 30k of that 300k and I will trade for you. I'll take commission only on profit made. I put in the skillz and you put in the monies. On MAN you will easy loose 100k in a couple of days of manipulation, so even if I run away with your money, it's still cheaper for you. But being an upstanding guy, I won't run away with your money and will only take what is due.
 
BeginnerJoe said:
10 pip stop is 10 pip risk. Max of 10 pip is still 10 pip. The average down old boy is saying "don't average down, old boy".

I have a better idea, send me 30k of that 300k and I will trade for you. I'll take commission only on profit made. I put in the skillz and you put in the monies. On MAN you will easy loose 100k in a couple of days of manipulation, so even if I run away with your money, it's still cheaper for you. But being an upstanding guy, I won't run away with your money and will only take what is due.
Click to expand...


She came back....
Joe you are still a beginner so I'm sorry to say that I will have to decline the very generous offer you made, thank you though it's very kind of you to offer.
 
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With 300k to play roulette with, you can do better than pot noodles. Phone for an escort girl and ask her to buy some kebabs on the way.
 
Ok, I'm in the mood for a bit of a spar. :cheesy:

Something interesting should come out of it anyway.

new_trader said:
Yes.

My direct experience and all the anecdotal evidence suggests that anyone who thinks otherwise is trading like someone on holiday having a flutter at a casino, rather than someone trading as a profession.
Click to expand...

What is it that objectively makes trading hard, though? I do believe a case could be made that the learning curve can be quite brutal, no doubt about that. However, assuming you survive this curve, my question is: what's hard about it?

Personally, I'm starting to think it's all in anyone's head for one good reason: it doesn't have to be hard. Start small, and very gradually build up your account with your experience. If you do it that way, I fail to see what the problem is.

Now, if you're starting out with $10k and say "I'll go prop and try and live off my performance", then you're probably shooting yourself in the foot. Starting big and shooting big is a sure way to blow your account.

In the end, it's a competition, and competitive mediums are subject to win/loss fluctuations. If anyone here has experience with such a medium outside of trading, I would welcome them to chime in (in fact, YouAreNotFree has already said trading is easier than playing Poker).

Shakone said:
How many years have you been at this? I've thought it was easy a couple of times too. Followed by a sharp and painful drawdown to knock me back to my senses.
Click to expand...

Near 6 years now (though it could be argued it's more like 1.5y, but I digress).

Now that I am able to compare the two, I find one-on-one competition much more gruelling than trading could ever be. If you were to ask me whether I would put down $10k for a serious chess match or $10k for trading, I'd take trading any day.

With trading, you have the luxury of choice: you can plan a trade on your own time, and even wait for an A+++ trade if you so wish. With the chess match, you are immediately subject to an opponent who will adapt to you on the fly. He can also choose to put you in a situation where any decision is difficult to make. I find that much harder to contend with than a formless, faceless market that can take months to display shifts in tendency or behaviour.

-----

In conclusion, I often see trading compared to being a Doctor or some such nonsense. The dollar cost of the education is perhaps comparable, but the job conditions certainly are not. With trading, the most you might have to stress about is a position going the wrong way. Big deal. Cut it and find your next opportunity. A doctor has real lives on the line, and I don't find that comparable. (Not to speak of being a Marine or on the front lines of warfare. Low pay for risking your life. Trading's a breeze by comparison!)

So is trading really all that hard in hindsight? I very much doubt it. I don't wish to trivialize trading's learning curve, far from it. However, I have also come to believe that its difficulty once you are acclimatized to its nature is perhaps overestimated. (And I would like to point to Robster's excellent signature for emphasis!)
 
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