Trading From Home To A Prop Firm?

[Pipsaholic]

Hi,

I am wondering if anyone has traded for themselves and kept there journals and record statement of wins and losses and managed to convince a firm to accept you? Do you require to be in banking or finance or be a graduate to get into these firms?

 

[theroguetrader]

Hi,

I am wondering if anyone has traded for themselves and kept there journals and record statement of wins and losses and managed to convince a firm to accept you? Do you require to be in banking or finance or be a graduate to get into these firms?

yes
yes
yes
no - (if you gotta likeable personality, a great ATTITUDE, your prepared to work hard & believe anything is possible - you wont need to "convince " any firm to accept you -
working for a firm isnt the end game - learning the art/skill is - !!


whether your in banking, finance and/or a graduate, is irrelevant to trading - the best traders in the world - both living or deceased, have all been either college drop outs, didnt have a CSE in Ford Escorts between them, finished college, but in a subject COMPLETELY unrelated to finance - (arts, philosophy), manual labourers, meat packers from (Tom Baldwin) taxi drivers - (Bruce Kovner), the list goes on -

 

[Pipsaholic]

That's good to know, but I read on another thread that unless your a freshie graduate out of a top uni and have at least an 4 year honors at a well respected uni and in your early 20's wave goodbye for the chance to work for a firm.

 

[Black Swan]

yes
yes
yes
no - (if you gotta likeable personality, a great ATTITUDE, your prepared to work hard & believe anything is possible - you wont need to "convince " any firm to accept you -
working for a firm isnt the end game - learning the art/skill is - !!


whether your in banking, finance and/or a graduate, is irrelevant to trading - the best traders in the world - both living or deceased, have all been either college drop outs, didnt have a CSE in Ford Escorts between them, finished college, but in a subject COMPLETELY unrelated to finance - (arts, philosophy), manual labourers, meat packers from (Tom Baldwin) taxi drivers - (Bruce Kovner), the list goes on -

I disagree, the vast majority of successful traders are highly educated, it's chicken and egg; the majority who are chosen to train in a firm get the opportunity due to their very good qualifications..They then tend to have at their disposal the finest (non advertising) mentors..

 

[theroguetrader]

I disagree, the vast majority of successful traders are highly educated, it's chicken and egg; the majority who are chosen to train in a firm get the opportunity due to their very good qualifications..They then tend to have at their disposal the finest (non advertising) mentors..

" the vast majority of successful traders are highly educated " -


" highly educated " people rarely make the " BEST " traders !! - FACT !! - go do a survey round the CME/IPE (RIP) - ex floor traders if ya dont believe me !!

" firms " take " grads " on because it makes them look good - !! - the " finest mentors " - dont mentor - they trade !!

 

[Black Swan]

" the vast majority of successful traders are highly educated " -


" highly educated " people rarely make the " BEST " traders !! - FACT !! - go do a survey round the CME/IPE (RIP) - ex floor traders if ya dont believe me !!

" firms " take " grads " on because it makes them look good - !! - the " finest mentors " - dont mentor - they trade !!

Not a question of your beliefs, it's fact. Your logic is twisted.

 

[theroguetrader]

Not a question of your beliefs, it's fact. Your logic is twisted.

whats " FACT "..?? - that the most highly profitable traders are " highly educated " ..?


u sure about that ??

 

[theroguetrader]

I disagree, the vast majority of successful traders are highly educated, it's chicken and egg; the majority who are chosen to train in a firm get the opportunity due to their very good qualifications..They then tend to have at their disposal the finest (non advertising) mentors..

" chosen to trade at a firm " - and learning how to trade & " CONSISTENTLY MAKE ££ " - are two different things -

the fact someone has " very good qualifications " - has NO relationship to the above - AT ALL !!

Banks/firms are public companies - they HAVE TO BE SEEN taking on " highly qualified " people - the shareholders wouldnt accept otherwise !! - thats all !!

 

[amit1986]

Fact of the matter is, well educated people get more opportunities to intern/work on trading floors. Whether they succeed or not, is a different question. But, most people on trading floors are well educated at the masters level. Those at top banks have good education from top universities. This is not just a coincidence, but rather, employers look to well educated people because it shows their discipline and focus - which are two crucial skills for any good trader. I spent quite a lot of time on the trading floor of a major IB and almost everyone around me had an MBA or a PhD.

To the OP: If you can make money consistently in the markets, then you'll be a good pickup anywhere. Having a good education will help your chances as well. You don't need to be in your early 20s with 4-year honor degrees. I know many people in my graduating class who didn't get into trading or investment banking and have all those things. If you know how to consistently make money trading and can prove it, then you shouldn't have a problem getting into prop shops.

 

[Abstract]

^Agree with the comment above. Even Bruce Kovner (an aforementioned trader), had to complete his undergrad and pursue a PhD @ Harvard prior to joining the futures desk at commod corp.

At the same time, it is possible to transition from trading from home to a prop firm, although the primary contingency is establishing a consistent track record.

 

[Pipsaholic]

Fact of the matter is, well educated people get more opportunities to intern/work on trading floors. Whether they succeed or not, is a different question. But, most people on trading floors are well educated at the masters level. Those at top banks have good education from top universities. This is not just a coincidence, but rather, employers look to well educated people because it shows their discipline and focus - which are two crucial skills for any good trader. I spent quite a lot of time on the trading floor of a major IB and almost everyone around me had an MBA or a PhD.

To the OP: If you can make money consistently in the markets, then you'll be a good pickup anywhere. Having a good education will help your chances as well. You don't need to be in your early 20s with 4-year honor degrees. I know many people in my graduating class who didn't get into trading or investment banking and have all those things. If you know how to consistently make money trading and can prove it, then you shouldn't have a problem getting into prop shops.

Great info mate. How long is consistent 6 - 12 months on a live account what win loss ratio would be acceptable 70% win and 30% loss be acceptable?

 

[gedward3]

" the vast majority of successful traders are highly educated " -


" highly educated " people rarely make the " BEST " traders !! - FACT !! - go do a survey round the CME/IPE (RIP) - ex floor traders if ya dont believe me !!

" firms " take " grads " on because it makes them look good - !! - the " finest mentors " - dont mentor - they trade !!

I agree with you here RT. I worked in the pit on the IPE and while there were a few well educated guys there most were typical barrow boys and more akin to a good fight after the pub. There again a lot made good money as they crafted their trade by watching what the older guys were doing and so picked up good tips that way.

Ged

 

[jthetrader]

I was at an event held for prospective investment banking/law/consultancy students last week and there was a chap from Goldman Sachs there; he told me that there is little point in submitting your trade history (real or from a simulator), even if you have produced consistently good returns, since they can easily be falsified. I was disappointed I thought my superb sim returns meant I was on the path to being a GS trader (not really lol).

He did say that I should send any winning algorithms I have in though if they are tested and they work then they will give you a job. I didn't want to offend him since I may come up against him in an interview a few years from now, but I did wonder why anyone with a profitable algorithm would bother sending it to anyone to get a job, maybe to obtain investment.

 

[Chartsy]

I have to say; most of the good traders I know are really smart.

 

[marbig]

I have to say; most of the good traders I know are really smart.

Thanks for the compliment. :clap:

 

[WallStreetHero]

I have to say; most of the good traders I know are really smart.

me too, however most of the smart guys i know are/were uneducated at school/uni

 

[coopster]

Thanks for the compliment. :clap:

He did say "most"

 

[bundmac]

Most of the lower educated guys, were floor traders correct- as they left school early and learnt the skill to trade ( aka- front run !).However, its 2011 now so the working class guys on the floor have long since either made their cash or gone back to being a taxi driver etc..After all day trading is a "Blue coloured" job, not a profession which is Law,Accountancy,Engineering and Medicine etc..

 

[jthetrader]

Most of the lower educated guys, were floor traders correct- as they left school early and learnt the skill to trade ( aka- front run !).However, its 2011 now so the working class guys on the floor have long since either made their cash or gone back to being a taxi driver etc..After all day trading is a "Blue coloured" job, not a profession which is Law,Accountancy,Engineering and Medicine etc..

So, how did they end up in the job in the first place? No offence intended to anyone here who did rise up through that system but...what can a poorly educated guy offer on the trading floor that a well educated guy can't? Education is a bonus, it is an 'as well as' other qualities a person has not 'instead of'.

In short, why did the big banks want blue collar traders?

 

[gedward3]

So, how did they end up in the job in the first place? No offence intended to anyone here who did rise up through that system but...what can a poorly educated guy offer on the trading floor that a well educated guy can't? Education is a bonus, it is an 'as well as' other qualities a person has not 'instead of'.

In short, why did the big banks want blue collar traders?

Because most of the traders started as runners on the floor and then worked theior way up.
You didnt need a degree you needed cojones and big ones at that. Being on the floor is an
intimidating place and is all screaming and sometime fighting, spitting and getting the p1ss
taken out of you so you needed thick skin and metal to stay alive. The hooray henry private
school educated didnt wash on the floor as to be blunt didnt have the metal of someone who
had grown streetwise.

Suppose this post will wind a few people up but who cares i worked on the IPE so know what it was like.