The Market Matrix

[dsmodi]

Rob4...
ummm - pls excuse my ignorance, but can u put a time and value summary of your last posted trading please....
so, what i mean is, when u anticipated the entry, and whether anticipation came to fruition and at what point market was at as well as exit time and details also....please...

cheers

 

[robster4]

dsmodi

the time was yesterday/today and the price was 1179-81. I was looking at the pre-market, about 10 mins before the open, saw it at 1179 and wasn't going to pass up the opportunity this time.

the trade was anticipated 2 days earlier - you can read my posts from 2 days ago where I highlighted the ranges I was looking at.

This trade had several elements of MM at its core and all working in sync together. I'm anticipating we're down for a few days now though Monday we could witness a strong whipsaw up before it reverses back down again. I'll remain short though.

BTW, these time stamps are set for GMT. So my last one it says 1.25pm - it was actually 2.25pm, ie just before the US equity markets opened.

I know people will always want a never-ending procession of trading examples but here is a great example of MM and how you can nail the price and time days in advance.

Have a great weekend all

Rob

Rob4...
ummm - pls excuse my ignorance, but can u put a time and value summary of your last posted trading please....
so, what i mean is, when u anticipated the entry, and whether anticipation came to fruition and at what point market was at as well as exit time and details also....please...

cheers

 

[mofo]

I'm making my calls, as there didn't seem to be that many around, by looking at daily and 10 minute candle charts and applying commonsense and a rudimentary knowledge of the 1-2-3 pattern and a bit of amateurish P&V <g>

I figured that if Robster (or anyone else) wants to post MM trades etc then perhaps my 'slightly better sometimes than a coin toss' could be stacked against it - for a 4 digit outlay I would expect MM to significantly outperform DJB at this point.

I'm NOT having any sort of go at Robster here, I truly appreciate his offer to post trades - this is far from common using these magical systems. I do think that some sort of comparitive baseline is needed - I'm a market duffer who sometimes does okay, so MM will outperform me, if it's any good.

A slight snag is that I trade 5pm+ daily most of the time, sometimes I am too busy to trade at all for weeks at a time. I get long (school) holidays when I can sometimes spend longer on it... but 'organised and regular' doesn't describe it at all.

So, it's almost 7pm Friday - I am expecting the usual... Friday is fairly dull day quite often, the action picks up from 7.15 to 7.30 most days, there are times when swings are more likely at 8pm and 8.30 (8.30 reputedly goes opposite to any significant 8pm move). So, if anything is going to motor I expect to see it start in 15 mins or so, and I will watch for reversals at 8 and 8.30 approx. Friday is quite often not a good day, but if you make a profit it's a good day in my book....

DIS - traded it a few times this week, +3 twice, -19 once, +18, +38. I had +67 a week back, so it's one I tend to watch as I've generally done okay with it. I closed it yesterday having suggested it would make 27 bucks, it didn't - but it did do that at the open today. I'll not trade it today unless it starts moving - it looks like it's unable to decide a direction today, although I wouldn't be amazed to see it do so later as the range is getting a bit tight.

COMPQ and INDU looking out of step - they both go 'down-up' so far, then a sideways spell, but INDU is up on the day while the Nasdaq only retraced approx 50% - Nasdaq I could imagine a 1-2-3 forming and a low at 1960 or below, INDU looks (to me) like it's trying for higher but I'd wait for 7.15-7.20... I suspect it just topped and won't take out the high of the day.

As for the rest - gotta finish my scan!

This is all probably cobblers - but it does provide a substantially cheaper version than MM...
Dave

Dave

I admire your approach, and this is really what i was trying to get at when i suggested making calls based on my interpretation of what MM is based on, especially your last sentence.

How can we make any sort of direct comparism tho, since Rob is trading the S&P. I would have thought its quite difficult unless the calls / trades are made against that ?

 

[DaveJB]

Hi,

How can we make any sort of direct comparism tho, since Rob is trading the S&P. I would have thought its quite difficult unless the calls / trades are made against that ?

You're kidding me, right? What difference does it make what you are trading? Rob calls the S&P, see how it works out, is there a profit to be had... compare to looking for free at a P&V chart, pick trades, is there a profit to be had.... the differences are that I haven't paid for a rather expensive system to forecast turning points - I look at the chart and see them. All that matters is whether you could have made a profit - it doesn't matter what you are trading, the object is simply to make money. To 'compare' just say 'is the MM system producing trades that beat simple chart watching into a cocked hat?' If not then use the purchase price to fund your account and learn to read charts!

It happens that I watch the Nasdaq and the Dow, I trade large cap stocks as a rule because they're the ones in the SB company daily rolling collections. You will get a very close match between the SP500 and the Dow I'd suggest, but it's only the work of a minute to see if they are moving together - Friday they moved together so the calls were essentially the same for the INDU and the SPX... the INDU top at 19:10 and 10400 correlates to the top at the same time in the SPX, which occurred at 1175.62 - I didn't forecast a bottom for the INDU, just that it was topping for the day.

I suppose my point here is this - I'm not a particularly marvellous trader, very much at the bottom of the learning curve to put it nicely, but I did rattle off a good few calls there, across 2 markets and half a dozen shares, and I'd be surprised if a competent trader couldn't knock that effort for six without breaking into a sweat....

Dave

 

[dsmodi]

thnx for the info rob...

i have to clarify - i wasn't doubting your trading by asking for the trades and times etc...I simply asked for those because i wanted it conciselt at one place ...

cheers...

 

[mofo]

Hi,


You're kidding me, right? What difference does it make what you are trading? Rob calls the S&P, see how it works out, is there a profit to be had... compare to looking for free at a P&V chart, pick trades, is there a profit to be had.... the differences are that I haven't paid for a rather expensive system to forecast turning points - I look at the chart and see them. All that matters is whether you could have made a profit - it doesn't matter what you are trading, the object is simply to make money. To 'compare' just say 'is the MM system producing trades that beat simple chart watching into a cocked hat?' If not then use the purchase price to fund your account and learn to read charts!

It happens that I watch the Nasdaq and the Dow, I trade large cap stocks as a rule because they're the ones in the SB company daily rolling collections. You will get a very close match between the SP500 and the Dow I'd suggest, but it's only the work of a minute to see if they are moving together - Friday they moved together so the calls were essentially the same for the INDU and the SPX... the INDU top at 19:10 and 10400 correlates to the top at the same time in the SPX, which occurred at 1175.62 - I didn't forecast a bottom for the INDU, just that it was topping for the day.

I suppose my point here is this - I'm not a particularly marvellous trader, very much at the bottom of the learning curve to put it nicely, but I did rattle off a good few calls there, across 2 markets and half a dozen shares, and I'd be surprised if a competent trader couldn't knock that effort for six without breaking into a sweat....

Dave

Dave

No i wasn't kidding, I agree with you on the INDU thing, but successful trading of large cap individual stocks i would say is a completely different game to trading the S&P, different risks, different barriers to entry as you point out. If you've got a small account and are spreadbetting, daytrading large US stocks would be like pushing water up hill i would have thought.

I'm not trying to be critical, but i don't think you just saying "look, I can beat the MM trading US Stocks so anyone can" is the point or helpful. I maintain that to evaluate the MM meaningfully (which is what we're looking at here) it would be more helpful to select an instrument and compare the calls made by the MM alongside similar principles used to predict price and time turning points and which are free. It sounds to me from your posts that the system you use actually requires a lot more knowledge, intuition and experience than you give yourself credit for, and is quite different in essence to something like MM & therefore might not suit a lot of people. Because you can trade it very profitably doesn't mean others can.

I believe some of the freely available principles on which MM is based can be used to call turning points over much longer timeframes, therefore for someone trading on eod looking for the larger / longer moves and with relatively little spare time, an understanding of those principles could be of some help without forking out £2k for the privelage.

Anyhow, we digress. Please keep posting Rob.

 

[DaveJB]

Mofo,
okay - but I'm only contrasting MM against 'simple' chart reading... and that's as applicable to stocks, commodities, indices, or any other beauty contest on the planet. I've not actually asked, but I'm presuming MM can handle anything traded? (Delta is basically okay for commodities, stocks, indices so I presume MM is too). MM ought to be producing a reasonable string of winning trades, reading raw charts can, my point is simply this - if it's so hard to be sure you are doing the MM stuff right, and it's so expensive, then maybe it makes more sense to learn to read a chart. I do not intend any slur here on Rob, but I am far from convinced I'd do any better using MM... and I think I'm fairly average on trading, provided I'm compared to others who have spent a decent period learning to read charts.

Why should trading stocks be harder than the index they make up? This always baffles me frankly - you can use the index to get a feel for timing on stocks, and vice versa, and the fact that both are successfully traded shows that neither one is particularly more difficult than the other provided you are prepared to put the groundwork in first.

Still, as you say, on with the show - I wasn't originally planning to post endlessly like this as it does detract fromt he aim of the thread, so I'll shut up <g>

Dave

 

[mofo]

Hi Dave

I reckon you're 100% right there, and whats more i think we're both trying to prove that you can save yourself £2K by coming up with similar or better results, albeit in a slightly different way.

Anyhow what the hell am i doing here, its a nice sunday evening, and there's some cold stella in the fridge with my name on it.

Rob - have you got MM predicting any major turning points in the S&P next week, or around 16th May?

 

[DaveJB]

Proabably <g>
My Stella is 2/3 diminished this afternoon, incidentally, as I enjoyed a leisurely book in the glass shed (my wife, and the company who built it, had a posher name for it) while the weather kept swinging from sun to rain and back.

Grey now... so I'm back....<g>

SPX - 1165 or slightly under - 1179+ would suggest the short was premature. If it drops through 1160 then 1140 looks next downside target, 1135 and the market is in the poo. Should we have one of those days of unreasonable optimism then 1179 will go and taking the top at around 1190-92 would be favourite of course. The point here is to see what the open is like, and be prepared to climb aboard the uptrend at 1180 or the downtrend at around 1170....

The Dow (INDU) Nasdaq (COMPQ) and S&P500 (SPX) all topped Friday, personally I think they're all going downhill - but the thing is that what I think doesn't count, only what the markets actually do, so it's sensible to decide what will consitute a bull, what's a bear, and what you'll do when you decide which has appeared.

Dave

 

[NedKelly]

Proabably..... <g>

Dave

DaveJB
Why don't you post all your crap in another thread where members who are interested in it can waste time reading it. I am not interested in your comparisons with MM. I am interested in Robsters trading, not yours, and as he has kindley agreed to post his trades and calls here we should give him the space and courtesy to do so without clutering up the thread with other garbage.

 

[robster4]

mofo

I'm not sure my purpose here is to help people save £2k because I actually believe that you'll save and make infinitely more by using MM, some lateral thinking and sound trading principles.

In terms of this week, to be fair I haven't looked beyond what I've already said. It's possible that we could spike up temporarily today before resuming back down, but that's all it should be, a spike (and another entry opportunity to go short). I'm now trying to lengthen my trades in terms of time since I'm not at my desk all the time. But in terms of learning how to apply MM, the intraday stuff is huge because you get to learn much faster.

So far on this board each turning point I've outlined beforehand has indeed turned out to be a turning point. Initially they were retracements but I'm now hoping to focus on the more major reversals and continuations of the dominant trend. That's not to say I won't do the odd bit of intraday when the opportunity arises, but I'd rather not be messing with 6 points here and there - would rather pick out the bigger moves - before I was ignoring one of the MM's cardinal rules.

rob

I reckon you're 100% right there, and whats more i think we're both trying to prove that you can save yourself £2K by coming up with similar or better results, albeit in a slightly different way.

...

Rob - have you got MM predicting any major turning points in the S&P next week, or around 16th May?

 

[mofo]

mofo

I'm not sure my purpose here is to help people save £2k because I actually believe that you'll save and make infinitely more by using MM, some lateral thinking and sound trading principles.

In terms of this week, to be fair I haven't looked beyond what I've already said. It's possible that we could spike up temporarily today before resuming back down, but that's all it should be, a spike (and another entry opportunity to go short). I'm now trying to lengthen my trades in terms of time since I'm not at my desk all the time. But in terms of learning how to apply MM, the intraday stuff is huge because you get to learn much faster.

So far on this board each turning point I've outlined beforehand has indeed turned out to be a turning point. Initially they were retracements but I'm now hoping to focus on the more major reversals and continuations of the dominant trend. That's not to say I won't do the odd bit of intraday when the opportunity arises, but I'd rather not be messing with 6 points here and there - would rather pick out the bigger moves - before I was ignoring one of the MM's cardinal rules.

rob

Rob

Sure Rob, what i meant was to see if I could do it, not you do it for me. As i said to you i'm please you're happy with the MM & your calls to date certainly seem to back up your decision.

Please don't let our digression put you off posting, i'm greatly enjoying following you calls.

 

[robster4]

Absolutely...no probs!

Rob

Sure Rob, what i meant was to see if I could do it, not you do it for me. As i said to you i'm please you're happy with the MM & your calls to date certainly seem to back up your decision.

Please don't let our digression put you off posting, i'm greatly enjoying following you calls.

 

[DaveJB]

Sorry to have offended you Mr Kelly.

 

[robster4]

Worth reading this post again from the other day...

We're back at the Thursday/Friday high. Two things can happen from here. We either drop straight back again, or we attack the 1185 before pulling back very strongly for a while.

I already shorted in the premarket and have pulled the stop to within a dollar.

anywhere around 1179-81 or at worst 1185 is where I'm positioning to short. If my current short gets stopped I'll wait to get it again at 1185.

Either way, the path of least resistance is now down, and if not today we'll catch it in the next few days.

Rob

 

[peterpr]

..... and as he has kindley agreed to post his trades and calls here we should give him the space and courtesy to do so without clutering up the thread with other garbage.

Calling Robster's posts 'garbage' is hardly likely to encourage him to continue now is it?

Skill and precision in reading markets is a prerequisite of trading success. Therefore, if that is NOT what you meant, you will find such success elusive until you aquire skill and precision in your native spoken/written language. To have ommitted the word 'other' would have conveyed what you no doubt intended.

Howlers like that when reading markets will be costly. There isn't a system that can do it for you, anymore than there is a system that will enable you to read and understand Japanese kanji without putting in the legwork - and all that quite apart from the small matter of gratuitous insult to someone who could undoubtedly teach most people here a thing or two about trading.

 

[chrisg]

DaveJB
Why don't you post all your crap in another thread where members who are interested in it can waste time reading it. I am not interested in your comparisons with MM. I am interested in Robsters trading, not yours, and as he has kindley agreed to post his trades and calls here we should give him the space and courtesy to do so without clutering up the thread with other garbage.

Crap post NedKelly.


Chrisg

 

[ivorm]

Sorry to have offended you Mr Kelly.

Admirable restraint, Dave.

Regards,

 

[JumpOff]

Calling Robster's posts 'garbage' is hardly likely to encourage him to continue now is it?

Ahem...
If you will look at Ned's post, you will see he wants to read more of Robster and less of DaveJB.

Really Ned, There's no harm in saying what you want. No harm in being civil about it either....
JO

 

[NedKelly]

Calling Robster's posts 'garbage' is hardly likely to encourage him to continue now is it?

peterpr. You must have misread my post. I want more from Robster and less from some of the other posters.

Please post more Robster!

Thanks