Take Profit Not Triggered

[Nowler]

Hello all.

Oanda is my broker and they are repeatedly not triggering my take profits.

Why is this? I tried to ask them before and they made me feel like an idiot... Telling me I should learn more about trading...

It can't be because of the spread can it?
If it is then they must be charging me two spreads!

The icon that pops up on the chart to indicate entry level is always at the current price PLUS spread.
So if it's a 5 pip spread, the icon will appear 5 pips ahead of price.

So if I am instantly paying a spread, and my take profit was added AFTER I entered the trade, then why isn't my take profit level being respected? I already paid the spread which is indicated by the entry icon being 5 pips ahead of where I actually entered.

Thanks in advance

 

[EnlightenedJoe]

The TPs were never hit. For a long position, the sell price must match the take profit for it to trigger. For a short position, the buy price must match the take profit for it to trigger.

 

[Nowler]

The TPs were never hit. For a long position, the sell price must match the take profit for it to trigger. For a short position, the buy price must match the take profit for it to trigger.

Yeah?
OK... That makes sense I suppose.
Thank you for the help.

So, if I enter a trade for 2 pips spread and have a take profit at 'x'... If for example the spread had risen to 20 pips by the time price reached my TP, in order for it to be triggered then price would have to pass my TP by 20 pips?
(or perhaps it needs to pass it by just 10?)

 

[highbury fx]

Yeah?
OK... That makes sense I suppose.
Thank you for the help.

So, if I enter a trade for 2 pips spread and have a take profit at 'x'... If for example the spread had risen to 20 pips by the time price reached my TP, in order for it to be triggered then price would have to pass my TP by 20 pips?
(or perhaps it needs to pass it by just 10?)

Hello

The spread is made up of a price you can sell at and a price you can buy at. For example 1.2013 - 1.2015 (you sell at 1.2013 or you buy at 1.2015)

Your order to close a long position will happen when the left hand side of the price (the bid) has reached your order level. This is because this is the side of the 2 way price that you sell at.

Your order to close a short position will happen when the right hand side of the price (the offer) has reached your order level. This is because this is the side of the 2 way price that you buy at.


good luck.

 

[Nowler]

Hello

The spread is made up of a price you can sell at and a price you can buy at. For example 1.2013 - 1.2015 (you sell at 1.2013 or you buy at 1.2015)

Your order to close a long position will happen when the left hand side of the price (the bid) has reached your order level. This is because this is the side of the 2 way price that you sell at.

Your order to close a short position will happen when the right hand side of the price (the offer) has reached your order level. This is because this is the side of the 2 way price that you buy at.


good luck.

Hello,
Thank you for your time.

Ok, I thought that maybe I was locked in for the 2 pip spread cost.
So basically, if they spread happens to increase in the time it takes for price to get to my TP, I am now at the mercy of the new spread when it comes to getting out of the trade via my TP? And not the initial spread?

 

[highbury fx]

Hello,
Thank you for your time.

Ok, I thought that maybe I was locked in for the 2 pip spread cost.
So basically, if they spread happens to increase in the time it takes for price to get to my TP, I am now at the mercy of the new spread when it comes to getting out of the trade via my TP? And not the initial spread?

if you're on a variable spread product then the spread will move. the thing to remember is every 2 way rate has a price you can buy at (the offer) or a price you can sell at (the bid). if you are in a position where you are long you will have to exit on the sell side of the price and vice versa.

the spread is your cost to dealing. The more spread you pay the higher your costs.

 

[Nowler]

Thanks for the help folks!

I have another question in relation to alternative options for traders with low capital (aprox. €1,000).
I will make a new thread if I cannot find my answer in the current threads.

 

[Fill_Or_Kill]

Thanks for the help folks!

I have another question in relation to alternative options for traders with low capital (aprox. €1,000).
I will make a new thread if I cannot find my answer in the current threads.

Oanda are a bucket shop who mark up spreads by the 100s of percent - useful only for wide stop swing trading. Utterly useless for anything else. I believe there is an LMAX white label who accept 1,000 euros... hang on...

www.fxmtf.com

I have never used them, but they just repackage LMAX's platform with a lower opening account value. They operate solely as an introducing broker basically. Maybe you should ask them if your deposit will be held in their client account or in LMAX's. If the latter then that's ideal. Otherwise I don't know because I don't know anything more about them.

 

[Nowler]

Oanda are a bucket shop who mark up spreads by the 100s of percent - useful only for wide stop swing trading. Utterly useless for anything else. I believe there is an LMAX white label who accept 1,000 euros... hang on...

www.fxmtf.com

I have never used them, but they just repackage LMAX's platform with a lower opening account value. They operate solely as an introducing broker basically. Maybe you should ask them if your deposit will be held in their client account or in LMAX's. If the latter then that's ideal. Otherwise I don't know because I don't know anything more about them.

Thank you very much for the info sir!

I never really wondered much about my funds in the account other than wondering if my account was hacked, would it be insured? I am now wondering how safe they are in general... I mean, I would certainly look closer when I was looking to deposit a serious amount.

I probably should move to another broker anyway, just for the sake of keeping the learning fresh and dynamic. I may learn something with another broker that I mightn't with Oanda.

I am going to look into this link you just provided.
If I cannot get a mini account somewhere else for €100 or less then I am happy to continue to learn with the current broker. I will however be anal when it comes to choosing a broker to start my "big" account with.

Thank you again my friend


EDIT:

"Your account will be with LMAX Exchange and you will have the same level of service. The main advantage is that if you are introduced by us, you will have access to other services, and also a lower commission, as due to our total volume of client business, we are able to negotiate better commissions from LMAX Exchange that we pass on to our clients." - http://fxmtf.com/about/

 

[Fill_Or_Kill]

Thank you very much for the info sir!

I never really wondered much about my funds in the account other than wondering if my account was hacked, would it be insured? I am now wondering how safe they are in general... I mean, I would certainly look closer when I was looking to deposit a serious amount.

I probably should move to another broker anyway, just for the sake of keeping the learning fresh and dynamic. I may learn something with another broker that I mightn't with Oanda.

I am going to look into this link you just provided.
If I cannot get a mini account somewhere else for €100 or less then I am happy to continue to learn with the current broker. I will however be anal when it comes to choosing a broker to start my "big" account with.

Thank you again my friend


EDIT:

"Your account will be with LMAX Exchange and you will have the same level of service. The main advantage is that if you are introduced by us, you will have access to other services, and also a lower commission, as due to our total volume of client business, we are able to negotiate better commissions from LMAX Exchange that we pass on to our clients." - http://fxmtf.com/about/

No worries - it's just about security of funds really - losing 1,000 euros is obviously not the end of the world, but if you intend to scale up you need to know you're using a broker who segregates client funds from their own properly. So if they should go to the wall, your funds are unaffected. You can also review LMAX's accounts on Companies House to check their client account deposits etc.

I think if you try out their platform you will be surprised by what you're dealing with in terms of an execution venue. Spreads of 0.1-0.2 on majors are the norm during London hours. Their free charting packages are terrible though, so hopefully you have an alternative.

The FCA essentially don't care about anything below 3 million, by their own admission, BUT certain brokers tend to play by the spirit of the regulations more than others. If you're trading in a systemic manner, you need a serious broker. Oanda et al will eat your edge and then some.

 

[Nowler]

No worries - it's just about security of funds really - losing 1,000 euros is obviously not the end of the world, but if you intend to scale up you need to know you're using a broker who segregates client funds from their own properly. So if they should go to the wall, your funds are unaffected. You can also review LMAX's accounts on Companies House to check their client account deposits etc.

I think if you try out their platform you will be surprised by what you're dealing with in terms of an execution venue. Spreads of 0.1-0.2 on majors are the norm during London hours. Their free charting packages are terrible though, so hopefully you have an alternative.

The FCA essentially don't care about anything below 3 million, by their own admission, BUT certain brokers tend to play by the spirit of the regulations more than others. If you're trading in a systemic manner, you need a serious broker. Oanda et al will eat your edge and then some.

I'm concerned that when I click on some of the links on the site, it brings me to an error page.
Not instilling confidence...

 

[Nowler]

This is what I get

 

[Fill_Or_Kill]

I'm concerned that when I click on some of the links on the site, it brings me to an error page.
Not instilling confidence...

I don't doubt - maybe you should wait until you can use LMAX or similar directly. Is raising 10k out of the question? You could trade it as if it were actually 1k and they wouldn't care.

 

[Nowler]

I don't doubt - maybe you should wait until you can use LMAX or similar directly. Is raising 10k out of the question? You could trade it as if it were actually 1k and they wouldn't care.

Raising that kind of money would be out of the question.
I could obviously do it over a few years and if that's what needs to happen then perhaps I'll do it but for now my rough plan is to learn as much and get as much hands on experience with my mini account (€20) as possible and then when I feel I'm ready, put 1-2k on it.

Almost 5 months in and I feel I am close...
I did get a rude awakening the other day and it burst my bubble about being ready in a month

I made 20% two weeks ago so i decided to (somewhat jokingly) try target 15% each week :cheesy:
I got 11% last week, missing my target by 4% but taking some of the surplus the week prior, my average after 2 weeks as about 15% per week

This week I made an impulsive move and sold back into the brent oil twice, over extending my accounts risk. It went against me as I feared and lost me 11% or so in 1 position (3 trades).

I am fine with getting low income from 1-2k. I am not expecting miracles.
My main objective is to be profitable and after that I would like to get to an income of €30 per day as a short term goal... I'll deal with whatever reality lies between now that then.

 

[Fill_Or_Kill]

Raising that kind of money would be out of the question.
I could obviously do it over a few years and if that's what needs to happen then perhaps I'll do it but for now my rough plan is to learn as much and get as much hands on experience with my mini account (€20) as possible and then when I feel I'm ready, put 1-2k on it.

Almost 5 months in and I feel I am close...
I did get a rude awakening the other day and it burst my bubble about being ready in a month

I made 20% two weeks ago so i decided to (somewhat jokingly) try target 15% each week :cheesy:
I got 11% last week, missing my target by 4% but taking some of the surplus the week prior, my average after 2 weeks as about 15% per week

This week I made an impulsive move and sold back into the brent oil twice, over extending my accounts risk. It went against me as I feared and lost me 11% or so in 1 position (3 trades).

I am fine with getting low income from 1-2k. I am not expecting miracles.
My main objective is to be profitable and after that I would like to get to an income of €30 per day as a short term goal... I'll deal with whatever reality lies between now that then.

You seem like an intelligent guy, but you've probably got a lot of lessons to come. 30 euro a day on a 1k account is a 720% annualised return. You can make that return on a handful of good swing trades in a year with a big helping of luck, maybe, but not as an intra weekly return across numerous equity smoothing trades. It's never been done, ever, consistently, by anyone who is trading outright moves as you are. You can argue this has been done in the HFT and arb space because so little risk capital is needed using market orders even if the ceiling is low, but ultimately these examples are still generally part of vast funds. So thinking you're going to break the mould with your massive proportional costs of trading, suppressed volatility, and b-book brokers is unlikely.

Every time you set a plan for yourself that involves smashing absolutely everyone from history and the present day, you know it needs looking at.

For my money if you want a piece of this game given your level of capitalisation, you should always look at building a track record first and then go from there. If you enter money management and you don't like it, you can quit when you've got a pot in the hundreds of thousands and then trade that. If you are thinking you're going to take 1k to 500k or something like that by yourself, you are betting heavily against the strongest trend you've ever seen.

 

[Nowler]

You seem like an intelligent guy, but you've probably got a lot of lessons to come. 30 euro a day on a 1k account is a 720% annualised return. You can make that return on a handful of good swing trades in a year with a big helping of luck, maybe, but not as an intra weekly return across numerous equity smoothing trades. It's never been done, ever, consistently, by anyone who is trading outright moves as you are. You can argue this has been done in the HFT and arb space because so little risk capital is needed using market orders even if the ceiling is low, but ultimately these examples are still generally part of vast funds. So thinking you're going to break the mould with your massive proportional costs of trading, suppressed volatility, and b-book brokers is unlikely.

Every time you set a plan for yourself that involves smashing absolutely everyone from history and the present day, you know it needs looking at.

For my money if you want a piece of this game given your level of capitalisation, you should always look at building a track record first and then go from there. If you enter money management and you don't like it, you can quit when you've got a pot in the hundreds of thousands and then trade that. If you are thinking you're going to take 1k to 500k or something like that by yourself, you are betting heavily against the strongest trend you've ever seen.

Thanks for the solid input mate!

Yeah, I certainly have lessons to learn. I'm in the process of learning one at the moment actually and I also learned another one earlier today. But! While I say that, I have certainly learned some already. I know myself that I am not currently ready to make a real go at this but, and I hope i'm not being naive, but I feel i'm close to being ready. I will reevaluate as soon as the new year comes and hopefully that will be the day I load my 1k or whatever it is. I may be able to put 2k on it but even at that I do realise that is a small pot of money to start with.

I am being realistic though, and I am planning to only take 10% of my profits made for that month. 90% goes back into the machine... I build that and then hopefully after 10-12 months my 10% profit each month (on average) is at least the same as my situation right now, or better. My current income is €193 per week let's not forget. My projections say that I can do it, but I totally understand what you're saying!

I am a bit weary of the returns I have been projecting but until I prove it wrong, that's my goal. I am not an idiot though, at least I hope I'm not...does an idiot realise that they are an idiot?? ...anywho... so if what I am aiming for isn't realistic then I'm sure i'll recognise it and then lower my expectations. My stop losses go on every time and my capital per trade is capped around 4% per trade, so I am expecting to be able to withstand the learning curve. Doing this, in my opinion, shows an understanding of being able to absorb the push and pull on an account and at the very least provides invaluable experience.

My immediate steps will be to continue to trade with the mini account and continue to learn for the next few months, then reevaluate. When I say I will deposit 1-2k capital, I am not saying that it will be all. I plan to deposit an additional bit on a when-I-can-afford-to basis. In my plan, the compound interest machine is one of the key components. I need to keep feeding my account and turn it into something that can realistically make the quality of my life at least moderately better.

Lets see I guess...

 

[Brumby]

Thanks for the solid input mate!

Yeah, I certainly have lessons to learn. I'm in the process of learning one at the moment actually and I also learned another one earlier today. But! While I say that, I have certainly learned some already. I know myself that I am not currently ready to make a real go at this but, and I hope i'm not being naive, but I feel i'm close to being ready. I will reevaluate as soon as the new year comes and hopefully that will be the day I load my 1k or whatever it is. I may be able to put 2k on it but even at that I do realise that is a small pot of money to start with.

I am being realistic though, and I am planning to only take 10% of my profits made for that month. 90% goes back into the machine... I build that and then hopefully after 10-12 months my 10% profit each month (on average) is at least the same as my situation right now, or better. My current income is €193 per week let's not forget. My projections say that I can do it, but I totally understand what you're saying!

I am a bit weary of the returns I have been projecting but until I prove it wrong, that's my goal. I am not an idiot though, at least I hope I'm not...does an idiot realise that they are an idiot?? ...anywho... so if what I am aiming for isn't realistic then I'm sure i'll recognise it and then lower my expectations. My stop losses go on every time and my capital per trade is capped around 4% per trade, so I am expecting to be able to withstand the learning curve. Doing this, in my opinion, shows an understanding of being able to absorb the push and pull on an account and at the very least provides invaluable experience.

My immediate steps will be to continue to trade with the mini account and continue to learn for the next few months, then reevaluate. When I say I will deposit 1-2k capital, I am not saying that it will be all. I plan to deposit an additional bit on a when-I-can-afford-to basis. In my plan, the compound interest machine is one of the key components. I need to keep feeding my account and turn it into something that can realistically make the quality of my life at least moderately better.

Lets see I guess...

I have seen many mathematical projections to argue a case on getting from A to B in terms of equity growth. The problem is that the market has a say and it does not cooperate regardless of our hope or wishes.

Whatever you say, hope or plan is irrelevant. The only thing that matters is whether your actual performance matches with expectation. Any expectation is not real until you can demonstrate to your own self that you can perform. Minimum period is 6 to 12 months of actual trading.

Your goal of $30 a day is doable on a $1000 account but requires a focus on how it can be done. You need to do a number of things.
1)You need to learn to trade with proper money management. Typically it is 1 % but 2 % is on the outer end. 4 % is just too high. That is why you are getting such big swings on your account.
2)Don't get fixated on your account equity swings. It will impact on your trading performance. Keep your risk down and focus on your trading process. The end result will take care of itself. Day to day equity swing is not important if you are in the long haul.
3)Specialise in the instrument and the market you want to trade in. Don't jump all over the place from oil to gold to CAD and to SGD. Each market has unique characteristics and you need to know what they are if you wish to succeed. I once heard a top ranking fx currency trader said that all his trading life he only traded the European/US session and would not know how to trade the Asia session. You need to trade with an edge if you want to succeed.

So how do you get $30 a day on $1000? If you have a $1000 account you can trade one mini lot if you leverage it by 10. This is the outer edge of leverage to trade professionally. You can trade the EURUSD pair during the European/US session which typically has an average daily range of 60 pips. Extracting 30 pips during the session will get you your 30 pips and $30. You close your position at the nd of the session if you are not stopped out or your profit target is not reached. By just trading one position in a market you specialise in and closing it out at the end of the session will contain your risk and ensure a reasonable chance of success.

 

[Nowler]

I have seen many mathematical projections to argue a case on getting from A to B in terms of equity growth. The problem is that the market has a say and it does not cooperate regardless of our hope or wishes.

Whatever you say, hope or plan is irrelevant. The only thing that matters is whether your actual performance matches with expectation. Any expectation is not real until you can demonstrate to your own self that you can perform. Minimum period is 6 to 12 months of actual trading.

Your goal of $30 a day is doable on a $1000 account but requires a focus on how it can be done. You need to do a number of things.
1)You need to learn to trade with proper money management. Typically it is 1 % but 2 % is on the outer end. 4 % is just too high. That is why you are getting such big swings on your account.
2)Don't get fixated on your account equity swings. It will impact on your trading performance. Keep your risk down and focus on your trading process. The end result will take care of itself. Day to day equity swing is not important if you are in the long haul.
3)Specialise in the instrument and the market you want to trade in. Don't jump all over the place from oil to gold to CAD and to SGD. Each market has unique characteristics and you need to know what they are if you wish to succeed. I once heard a top ranking fx currency trader said that all his trading life he only traded the European/US session and would not know how to trade the Asia session. You need to trade with an edge if you want to succeed.

So how do you get $30 a day on $1000? If you have a $1000 account you can trade one mini lot if you leverage it by 10. This is the outer edge of leverage to trade professionally. You can trade the EURUSD pair during the European/US session which typically has an average daily range of 60 pips. Extracting 30 pips during the session will get you your 30 pips and $30. You close your position at the nd of the session if you are not stopped out or your profit target is not reached. By just trading one position in a market you specialise in and closing it out at the end of the session will contain your risk and ensure a reasonable chance of success.

Of course, any projections are obviously theoretical. When I talk about these projections I assume to be talking to more knowledgeable traders than myself so as far I am concerned I don't need to keep saying "market dependant" because it obviously goes without saying. Also, in regards to your comment about proving it over 6 to 12 months, I also agree.

I do however question your comment about 4% being to high. It may be for you, or it may even be for me, but a blanket statement of it being too high is just not accurate. I cautiously say this because I do realise that I don't even have 6 months of trading under my belt but from what I can see, I am very comfortable risking a cap of 4% on a trade. I'm not sure why you said my account has big swings... I have not been experiencing negative swings in my account. I did say on a thread somewhere here that I lost 15% of my account Monday last week but that was a direct cause of not following my plan and instead being impulsive. Or perhaps you are eluding to the fact that I am down about 40-45% of my capital? I wouldn't class this as a swing, not in the sense I feel you are talking about anyway. I lost most of that money in the first 3 months when I was risking 1-2% per trade (with a few impulsive trades also), for the last 2 months I have been making steady progress, the last month being 4% trades.

I feel a little uncomfortable disagreeing with you because, again, I realise that it's likely you have far more experience than I do, but if someone is playing the percentage game then who are we to say 4% isn't proper money management? It may be more than you are willing to risk, or even for the next person but 4% is "proper money management" if it was established to be a cap. It just happens to be a little bit more risk than some people might take. Also, I don't really care about the small equity swings anymore and haven't for over a month (maybe I will when I have a big account). I figured out a long time ago that the money in my account will ebb and flow...this is totally normal. Obviously we would like to go into the green immediately but a lot of the time it doesn't, particularly when paying a spread. In that case I go into the red by a few pips immediately and then might very well go further into the red as my trade retraces or something, but from my experience, it will come right more often than not provided I take the best trades.

In regards to number 3 where you say about sticking to 1 or few markets. While this may be great advice to some, I feel it loses some relevance for me as I am training to become a discretionary trader. Of course a discretionary trader can stick to just 1 or 2 markets but if I was to do that then it would completely contradict my conscious reasoning for being discretionary. I do however agree with you that each market has it's own personality or behaviour somewhat unique to itself and this needs to be understood or risk getting steam rolled by something unforeseen which could have been seen if enough study was carried out. While I say this, I do try to limit the amount of markets I trade, but it's far more than 1. When it comes to me making trades based on macro reasoning then the markets I can trade are greatly reduced as my macro knowledge doesn't extend very far but for the likes of trading pullbacks, channels and breakouts, I find that this can successfully be carried out on a wide array of markets.

I do not want to be risking 4% per trade for too long. As soon as I can grow my account, the sooner I can reduce the capital per trade. This is always the plan...get to a point where I can make a living risking only 1% per trade. I also use 50/1 leverage, I have the option of 100/1 too but I have no interest in going that high. The leverage is also something I plan on reducing as my account grows, but at this early stage 50/1 levers and 4% per trade maximum sounds right for me. I could of course turn around next month and decide that I need to reduce these, but as of right now, everything seems OK to me. I am aware.

It is worth noting that I limit the amount of trades that I take at any one time. I completely realise that the more attention I place on one trade, the less attention I give to other trades. Hence the reason I often only roll with 1 trade at a time, but I can go up to 4 or so. But keeping it to 1-2 is preferred

 

[Fill_Or_Kill]

Thanks for the solid input mate!

Yeah, I certainly have lessons to learn. I'm in the process of learning one at the moment actually and I also learned another one earlier today. But! While I say that, I have certainly learned some already. I know myself that I am not currently ready to make a real go at this but, and I hope i'm not being naive, but I feel i'm close to being ready. I will reevaluate as soon as the new year comes and hopefully that will be the day I load my 1k or whatever it is. I may be able to put 2k on it but even at that I do realise that is a small pot of money to start with.

I am being realistic though, and I am planning to only take 10% of my profits made for that month. 90% goes back into the machine... I build that and then hopefully after 10-12 months my 10% profit each month (on average) is at least the same as my situation right now, or better. My current income is €193 per week let's not forget. My projections say that I can do it, but I totally understand what you're saying!

I am a bit weary of the returns I have been projecting but until I prove it wrong, that's my goal. I am not an idiot though, at least I hope I'm not...does an idiot realise that they are an idiot?? ...anywho... so if what I am aiming for isn't realistic then I'm sure i'll recognise it and then lower my expectations. My stop losses go on every time and my capital per trade is capped around 4% per trade, so I am expecting to be able to withstand the learning curve. Doing this, in my opinion, shows an understanding of being able to absorb the push and pull on an account and at the very least provides invaluable experience.

My immediate steps will be to continue to trade with the mini account and continue to learn for the next few months, then reevaluate. When I say I will deposit 1-2k capital, I am not saying that it will be all. I plan to deposit an additional bit on a when-I-can-afford-to basis. In my plan, the compound interest machine is one of the key components. I need to keep feeding my account and turn it into something that can realistically make the quality of my life at least moderately better.

Lets see I guess...

Cool, so long as you keep an open mind.

I have seen well capitalised people make a career of it from their previous industry, and I have seen people come from nothing and end up seeded. I haven't seen people come from nothing, with no capital, and become HNW all solo. The odds are too heavy. If you thought of every move you made in life as a trade, you wouldn't take this one. Often any rags to riches story contains all sorts of caveats, and they are never stories of compounding daytraded gains. Except those that are unverifiable of course. Paul Rotter etc had funded accounts from props and were not trading outright - flipping was popular back then and easy as hell because you had clueless well capitalised idiots coming off the paper exchanges into electronic and getting slammed by basic tactics like flipping as the tape moved real slow, they saw orders and took them for what they were.... I don't want to go tangential here, but look into any stories you hear.

Anyone who tells you they can make x pips a day has zero excuse for not being a multi multi millionaire unless they are trading extreme high frequency where there is a liquidity on return issue. Pips should be looked at on a monthly timescale with volatility of returns taken into account. More likely they are unaware of the long term flaws in their own system or are practising a transitory edge. I have run systems where the edge prints money for 9 months and once the curve starts to flatten, you pull the plug. This takes a great deal of experience and control and you would hedge it with long term systems to produce a smooth equity curve. Many people only ever find one system that works, and it's temporary alpha - when it goes they're done because often it's luck in the first place.

Just note this is going to be a journey of massive pain and you don't want to undertake it if you've got kids or anything like that.

 

[Nowler]

Cool, so long as you keep an open mind.

I have seen well capitalised people make a career of it from their previous industry, and I have seen people come from nothing and end up seeded. I haven't seen people come from nothing, with no capital, and become HNW all solo. The odds are too heavy. If you thought of every move you made in life as a trade, you wouldn't take this one. Often any rags to riches story contains all sorts of caveats, and they are never stories of compounding daytraded gains. Except those that are unverifiable of course. Paul Rotter etc had funded accounts from props and were not trading outright - flipping was popular back then and easy as hell because you had clueless well capitalised idiots coming off the paper exchanges into electronic and getting slammed by basic tactics like flipping as the tape moved real slow, they saw orders and took them for what they were.... I don't want to go tangential here, but look into any stories you hear.

Anyone who tells you they can make x pips a day has zero excuse for not being a multi multi millionaire unless they are trading extreme high frequency where there is a liquidity on return issue. Pips should be looked at on a monthly timescale with volatility of returns taken into account. More likely they are unaware of the long term flaws in their own system or are practising a transitory edge. I have run systems where the edge prints money for 9 months and once the curve starts to flatten, you pull the plug. This takes a great deal of experience and control and you would hedge it with long term systems to produce a smooth equity curve. Many people only ever find one system that works, and it's temporary alpha - when it goes they're done because often it's luck in the first place.

Just note this is going to be a journey of massive pain and you don't want to undertake it if you've got kids or anything like that.

I know the odds are heavily against me but I'm going to try anyway. I am not expecting riches beyond my wildest dreams, I just want to make a better life for my family and I.
I have no kids nor partner. I have little to no possessions. I have no problem moving around long term. I find that so much of my life suits trading. Ive never felt so compatible with something in my life!

Watch this... 1 year down the line... "I hate trading"

Im quite happy to put 10 hours a day into learning this. Been doing it since day 1 and am even more enthusiastic about it now that everything is making sense. Imagine how I'll feel about it when it actually starts paying bills and debt!

I also love a challenge and have often smiled at losing trades. I don't see it as a loss. I see it as a challenge. Bring it! What do I have to lose? My financial freedom? Haha, I was born into a lower socio-economic, volitile, single parent home in rural Ireland! A hospital misdiagnosed me when I was 13 and it resulted in septicaemia which nearly killed me. I lost my hip over it and now I have a metal one! I couldn't sue the hospital because I couldn't get a doctor in Ireland to go against their own and I was too poor to take it further. Down here on the ladder we have little more than a home! I beg the market to throw what it can at me! I'm not afraid!

The quote I used in the foreword of my uni thesis (which luckily I was poor enough that a body paid my tuition fee) comes to mind...

"When you walk to the edge of all the light you have and take that first step into the darkness of the unknown, you must believe that one of two things will happen. There will be something solid for you to stand upon or you will be taught to fly." - Patrick Overton


I really appreciate the advice.
Thank you.

Let's see if I can do what I need to do