Hi Trader333/Naz,
I am using Ib and Esignal is the esignal market depth,
the same as level 2 ?
on the esignal level 2 screen if you click where it says
level 2 you get the options of powerview $29
and total view $150
as they cost more are they a lot better ??
would they make any difference trading with Ib or
are they more suited to direct access .
thanks ian
I am using Ib and Esignal is the esignal market depth,
the same as level 2 ?
on the esignal level 2 screen if you click where it says
level 2 you get the options of powerview $29
and total view $150
as they cost more are they a lot better ??
would they make any difference trading with Ib or
are they more suited to direct access .
thanks ian
Trader333
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Ian,
In my view you dont need more than the basic level II subscription but do make sure that you have ticked the "ECN Books" option as this allows you to have ISLD and ARCA books displayed separately is you so wish.
I assume that you have the same options as I have shown below ?
Cheers
Paul
In my view you dont need more than the basic level II subscription but do make sure that you have ticked the "ECN Books" option as this allows you to have ISLD and ARCA books displayed separately is you so wish.
I assume that you have the same options as I have shown below ?
Cheers
Paul
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Thanks Paul,
I didn't have the ECN books ticked
but I have now !!!
I have also noticed a $50 per month market depth charge
on top of the $9 fee see below
"Note A subscription fee of $50 per month for monthly plans ($20 per month for annual plans) will be applied for one or all Market Depth services. "
I take it all esignal users pay this ?
Ian
I didn't have the ECN books ticked
but I have now !!!
I have also noticed a $50 per month market depth charge
on top of the $9 fee see below
"Note A subscription fee of $50 per month for monthly plans ($20 per month for annual plans) will be applied for one or all Market Depth services. "
I take it all esignal users pay this ?
Ian
Paul - I'm getting confused now! Like Ian, my understanding is that to get eSignal Nasdaq level 2 ($9 per month) you have to first subscribe to Level 1 ($1 per month), and also pay $50 for :-
"(eSignal requires a monthly surcharge of $50 per month for monthly subscribers and $20 per month for prepay subscriptions in addition to exchange fees for one or all Market Depth services.*)"
So total for usable level 2 is $1 + $9 + $50 = $60 per month, unless you go for the annual pre-pay, in which case the $50 surcharge drops to $20 per month, making a total of $30 per month.
Are you saying that there is some type of saving for IB users, 'cos if so it is not apparant from the site.
"(eSignal requires a monthly surcharge of $50 per month for monthly subscribers and $20 per month for prepay subscriptions in addition to exchange fees for one or all Market Depth services.*)"
So total for usable level 2 is $1 + $9 + $50 = $60 per month, unless you go for the annual pre-pay, in which case the $50 surcharge drops to $20 per month, making a total of $30 per month.
Are you saying that there is some type of saving for IB users, 'cos if so it is not apparant from the site.
Naz
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It seems that many people think that some type of depth of view is the key to seeing whats happening on level 2 and that just isn't so.
This new focus of trying to appeal to people to use Depth of view is going up a blind alley in my opinion and many market participants will use it to their own advantage.
The same is can be said of the island and arca books.If you are not a direct access player who is able to utilize the island and arca books why would you want to see it? because all i think you would be looking at is for depth of market.
Too many non direct access players who get level 2 as an add on in my opinion use it the wrong way.That is why i think that if they want it, all they need is the basic level 2 set up.
Of course this is just a personal opinion.
This new focus of trying to appeal to people to use Depth of view is going up a blind alley in my opinion and many market participants will use it to their own advantage.
The same is can be said of the island and arca books.If you are not a direct access player who is able to utilize the island and arca books why would you want to see it? because all i think you would be looking at is for depth of market.
Too many non direct access players who get level 2 as an add on in my opinion use it the wrong way.That is why i think that if they want it, all they need is the basic level 2 set up.
Of course this is just a personal opinion.
Last edited:
Trader333
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RogerM,
I will pm you as well.
Naz,
With IB you have the option to route your order in a number of ways including direct to Island if you want. So if Island is showing four of the top level inside ask orders that equate to say a total of 1000 shares then I can take out all four order levels with one 1000 share limit order and attempt to start a momentum move and I can do this using IB. To other Level II players who have incorporated the Island book into their screen they will suddenly see four levels of Ask disappear off the screen which may (and I emphasise "May") make some react and jump on board starting the momentum.
This is why it is useful to be able to see the ECN books but I agree if you dont think this way then it may be of limited use.
Cheers
Paul
I will pm you as well.
Naz,
With IB you have the option to route your order in a number of ways including direct to Island if you want. So if Island is showing four of the top level inside ask orders that equate to say a total of 1000 shares then I can take out all four order levels with one 1000 share limit order and attempt to start a momentum move and I can do this using IB. To other Level II players who have incorporated the Island book into their screen they will suddenly see four levels of Ask disappear off the screen which may (and I emphasise "May") make some react and jump on board starting the momentum.
This is why it is useful to be able to see the ECN books but I agree if you dont think this way then it may be of limited use.
Cheers
Paul
I'm glad this is developing into a look at L2 costs and setups.
It appears to the uninitiated that it is more of a minefield then which software vendor/broker to use; and beginning to make IB's $70 per month to be in the ball park.
Now aren't some screens better than others with regard to setting up personal preferences like highlighting mm's etc?
Price is not always an indicator of good value, and with all the L2 screens out there, it will come down to a few handful that the majority are using. Which are they?
Would someone care to set up a poll thread so we can get some sort of gauge to value them by?
I would set it up myself but I haven't got a clue how to set up those button thingies.
It appears to the uninitiated that it is more of a minefield then which software vendor/broker to use; and beginning to make IB's $70 per month to be in the ball park.
Now aren't some screens better than others with regard to setting up personal preferences like highlighting mm's etc?
Price is not always an indicator of good value, and with all the L2 screens out there, it will come down to a few handful that the majority are using. Which are they?
Would someone care to set up a poll thread so we can get some sort of gauge to value them by?
I would set it up myself but I haven't got a clue how to set up those button thingies.
Trader333
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Options,
Esignal's Level II screen is very good in my view allowing MM highlighting, different order level colouring, ignoring of MM if you wish etc and incorporating of ECN books.
It doesnt allow you to click and trade as with the Level II software supplied by the likes of Pointdirex or E*trade but that is not what I use it for.
Cheers
Paul
Esignal's Level II screen is very good in my view allowing MM highlighting, different order level colouring, ignoring of MM if you wish etc and incorporating of ECN books.
It doesnt allow you to click and trade as with the Level II software supplied by the likes of Pointdirex or E*trade but that is not what I use it for.
Cheers
Paul
From what I've seen of depth of market on stocks and futures and for what they charge. It simply is not worth having, as it is only a intentional guide of what's about to go through. These amounts get changed and pulled before they get executed so give no clue as to what is really happening. For a clearer picture of what's happening the time and sales are better as these are executed orders.
I'm using these with futures at the moment, but for the most part it is still not clear what's going on. With stocks it is a bit more helpful imho.
I'm using these with futures at the moment, but for the most part it is still not clear what's going on. With stocks it is a bit more helpful imho.
Trader333
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Options,
In my view Time and Sales can be deceptive without a level II screen. For example it is possible that T & S is showing trades that for example may be at $20.11 and the inside ask maybe $20.12 and inside bid could be $20.10 but there then maybe a gap of 10c to the next level so if you hit a market order you could get filled 10c away from the inside bid (or ask) as it may only have 100 shares at that level. If there are several levels of support on the bid or several levels of resistance on the inside ask then you at least know you can get out near to the inside bid and ask.
The other advantage I have found is that, (by highlighting the key MM), you can see the games they are playing. Yesterday MLCO who was the Ax for the day on one of the shares I was following (but I cannot remember which), was jumping to the inside bid for a few seconds which attracted ECNs ahead of him and then droping his quote. He was trying to force the price up so he could then sell on the ask at a price higher than the market was at and it worked. The price went up by about another 7 cents and then MLCO jumped and held the inside ask soaking up all the buying and he then jumped ship and the price tanked. How would you know that was going to happen without a level II screen because on a chart it looked bullish and the T & S was green for ages ?
Cheers
Paul
In my view Time and Sales can be deceptive without a level II screen. For example it is possible that T & S is showing trades that for example may be at $20.11 and the inside ask maybe $20.12 and inside bid could be $20.10 but there then maybe a gap of 10c to the next level so if you hit a market order you could get filled 10c away from the inside bid (or ask) as it may only have 100 shares at that level. If there are several levels of support on the bid or several levels of resistance on the inside ask then you at least know you can get out near to the inside bid and ask.
The other advantage I have found is that, (by highlighting the key MM), you can see the games they are playing. Yesterday MLCO who was the Ax for the day on one of the shares I was following (but I cannot remember which), was jumping to the inside bid for a few seconds which attracted ECNs ahead of him and then droping his quote. He was trying to force the price up so he could then sell on the ask at a price higher than the market was at and it worked. The price went up by about another 7 cents and then MLCO jumped and held the inside ask soaking up all the buying and he then jumped ship and the price tanked. How would you know that was going to happen without a level II screen because on a chart it looked bullish and the T & S was green for ages ?
Cheers
Paul
theknifemac
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A quick question for you all on level II. What is the difference between basic level II and the full level II for a given ECN ? I would have thought that level II was a composite view of all bids and offers on all the ECNs, with the market makers shown beside each entry. I thought these were similar to the order books you get on the European markets, except the individual orders are shown separately rather than being lumped into one quote as is done in LSE etc. In fact I thought the level II display would look like the SEAQ screens ?
i.e. in Europe you might see
3 10000 99.7 100.1 25000 8
5 24000 99.6 100.2 50000 10
with the LH and RH columns being the number of tickets making up each order e.g. 3 separate orders are best bid or inside bid for the US terminology ;->
and in the US the same orders might be shown as
MLCO 6000 99.7 100.1 10000 JKLM
ABCD 3000 99.7 100.1 5000 ABCD
WXYZ 1000 99.7 etc
GHIJ 4000 99.6
etc
Or is the basic level II just the volume and prices with the ECN order books showing the actual market makers ?
Thanks
Mac
i.e. in Europe you might see
3 10000 99.7 100.1 25000 8
5 24000 99.6 100.2 50000 10
with the LH and RH columns being the number of tickets making up each order e.g. 3 separate orders are best bid or inside bid for the US terminology ;->
and in the US the same orders might be shown as
MLCO 6000 99.7 100.1 10000 JKLM
ABCD 3000 99.7 100.1 5000 ABCD
WXYZ 1000 99.7 etc
GHIJ 4000 99.6
etc
Or is the basic level II just the volume and prices with the ECN order books showing the actual market makers ?
Thanks
Mac
Trader333
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Theknifemac,
I dont think that Nasdaq Level II is the same as that which you are comparing. I would post a screenshot but, apparently, it contravenes copyright and I have had to delete quite a few screen shots from other posts I have previously made.
Cheers
Paul
I dont think that Nasdaq Level II is the same as that which you are comparing. I would post a screenshot but, apparently, it contravenes copyright and I have had to delete quite a few screen shots from other posts I have previously made.
Cheers
Paul
Naz
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In answer to some of the above posts.
I believe as well that price is not a good indicator of good value if searching for a level 2 screen to be used as an add on to an Internet trading account.
Paul,In the example you gave above you used the island order to get filled and start the momentum,that is how a direct access player would use it.However another casual viewer might have looked at the island book and and decide that those orders showing on it represented resistance.
Totalview for instance seems to want to promote this depth of market concept and i can see various sources charging extra for this service.When in reality i think its not needed.Because its design is going to lead players to spoof the move and sucker all those that dont know whats happening.
Some of the best level 2 set ups that i've traded with have looked on first showing pretty basic but its the software goodies on offer underneath that make it Christmas for the direct access player.
I believe all someone needs is an understanding of what can be fully done with level 2 (and that includes how to use it with direct access) and then shop around to find the set up that suits them.
I believe as well that price is not a good indicator of good value if searching for a level 2 screen to be used as an add on to an Internet trading account.
Paul,In the example you gave above you used the island order to get filled and start the momentum,that is how a direct access player would use it.However another casual viewer might have looked at the island book and and decide that those orders showing on it represented resistance.
Totalview for instance seems to want to promote this depth of market concept and i can see various sources charging extra for this service.When in reality i think its not needed.Because its design is going to lead players to spoof the move and sucker all those that dont know whats happening.
Some of the best level 2 set ups that i've traded with have looked on first showing pretty basic but its the software goodies on offer underneath that make it Christmas for the direct access player.
I believe all someone needs is an understanding of what can be fully done with level 2 (and that includes how to use it with direct access) and then shop around to find the set up that suits them.
