spreadbetting

[Maggle]

I have recently joined T2W, and I was wondering if anyone can recommend a spreadbetting company. I have belonged to finspreads for several years, and lost lots, but am still trying. But just recently am having more problems with them - having stop losses taken out almost straight away when it doesn't look as if the price has gone near it. They say it is based on Bloomberg futures, but don't show these prices on their website. Is there a way of getting to see Bloomberg futures - and as I am betting on Wall Street rolling spread (rather than Wall Street daily future) would the Bloomberg futures price really be applicable. Knowing these details is really quite important - I lost out on £300 yesterday because of this. I also belong to IG index, but haven't used them much. Is there a spreadbetting company you can really rely on? Any advice gladly received. Also any advice on strategies from someone who actually manages to win consistently.

 

[KillPhil08]

Don't risk money if you don't have a strategy.

Depends. ODL have very tight spreads of 1 point across ftse dax etc. Not so much on DOW. I think ig have a tighter spread but i'm unsure. If your scalping odl are pretty good.

Read around, support and resistance is probably the easiest strategy around. "sticking with your guns" is a total other matter

 

[UKtradergirl]

I have recently joined T2W, and I was wondering if anyone can recommend a spreadbetting company. I have belonged to finspreads for several years, and lost lots, but am still trying. But just recently am having more problems with them - having stop losses taken out almost straight away when it doesn't look as if the price has gone near it. They say it is based on Bloomberg futures, but don't show these prices on their website. Is there a way of getting to see Bloomberg futures - and as I am betting on Wall Street rolling spread (rather than Wall Street daily future) would the Bloomberg futures price really be applicable. Knowing these details is really quite important - I lost out on £300 yesterday because of this. I also belong to IG index, but haven't used them much. Is there a spreadbetting company you can really rely on? Any advice gladly received. Also any advice on strategies from someone who actually manages to win consistently.

I've got several SB accounts. I've only had my IGIndex account one for a month now, but i have been using it a lot and by far it is the best. The fills are quick, the charting is brilliant. Got no complaints at all. Why haven't you tried using them much? Maybe worth a go.

Regarding your losses. How long have you been at this for? Are things improving as time goes on?

There is a lot of discussions regarding strategies on this forum if you hunt around. How have you been trading up until now- what kind of strategy are you using? How are you managing risk?

 

[Maggle]

thanks for your reply KillPhil. I haven't heard of ODL so will look them up. I have tried various strategies and read quite a lot, but don't know any traders/spreadbetters to compare notes with, so this site may help. Do you manage to make money overall?

 

[Maggle]

Thanks to your reply too UKtradergirl. Interesting that you have found IGIndex good. Perhaps I should go back to them - I did actually make a few thousand pounds trading with them one spring a couple of years ago - the bull market was in full swing which made it easier, as I find it more difficult to short - I feel OK shorting indices, but not stocks. I started out very carefully, and built up. I did seem to do better with them than finspreads. But then I started to lose,so gave up with them. One thing I found not so good with IGindex was they sometimes require a bigger stake than finspreads eg. £2 a point on the ftse (I really prefer to use £1). If they don't mess you about with false stop losses I think I'll be better off to go back to them. Also I'll have a look at ODL which KillPhil mentioned.
I have been trying to do this for several years, ever since I lost a load of money in the technology crash in 2000 - my idea was to try and make the money back, but overall it hasn't worked for me. I'm still searching - no things haven't improved, in fact this year has been particularly bad. But I'm still fascinated by the markets, enjoy looking at charts etc.
Regarding strategy, I mostly look at chart patterns - eg cup and handle, double top, flags, pennants, wegdes, as well as support and resistance. I manage risk by putting on stoplosses, but often these seem to cause a loss as prices mostly don't go up or down in a straight line. Still they are necessary, unless you can sit at the screen all the time.
Are you making money? What is your strategy?and how long have you been doing this? Sorry, lots of questions.

 

[Lee Shepherd]

I have recently joined T2W, and I was wondering if anyone can recommend a spreadbetting company. I have belonged to finspreads for several years, and lost lots, but am still trying. But just recently am having more problems with them - having stop losses taken out almost straight away when it doesn't look as if the price has gone near it. They say it is based on Bloomberg futures, but don't show these prices on their website. Is there a way of getting to see Bloomberg futures - and as I am betting on Wall Street rolling spread (rather than Wall Street daily future) would the Bloomberg futures price really be applicable. Knowing these details is really quite important - I lost out on £300 yesterday because of this. I also belong to IG index, but haven't used them much. Is there a spreadbetting company you can really rely on? Any advice gladly received. Also any advice on strategies from someone who actually manages to win consistently.

Hi maggie,

having read through your post its clear to see that its not the SB firm's problem here, its yours. This is good news as reading below will make you aware, you can then go about correcting this.


O.k, here we go:

Your problem (as you see fit) is your stops getting taken out when you dont feel or believe that its gone there. It will be the same for every spreadbet company, this is not them hunting you down, simply changing the price according to the market (assuming its within market hours).

If you feel genuinely that they are hunting you down specifically or they have made a mistake (and they do happen) you can do one of two things:

1) Complain and they will put you back in (this must be done immediately) if not, go to FSA and they will investigate, this kind of behaviour brings about heavy fines and eventual shutting down of the firm. This is why they tend not to do it, makes sense right, why risk a huge fine, a bad reputation and possible shutdown for a few hundred or thousand quid.

or

2) Sign up with several SB companies (unrelated) and ARB them, this means to go Short with one firm and go Long with the other, when the prices then come back together, you make profit, easy. Check out Arbitrage.

P.S: Every SB firm keeps there prices extremely similar so ARB is virtually impossible most of the time, plus with rapping around the spread and the constant moving of prices you could find yourself waiting for months before getting a viable 'hit', only to find that you also get a slow fill making the trade useless and none profitable.

 

[mauzj]

2) Sign up with several SB companies (unrelated) and ARB them, this means to go Short with one firm and go Long with the other, when the prices then come back together, you make profit, easy. Check out Arbitrage.

Nice post Lee. However, I'd like to add that in my opinion arbitrage isn't that recommendable. The execution risk is huge, especially in these volatile markets. And you'll hurt your eyes trying to watch for them. I had a spreadsheet once that compared spreads between different firms, and while there were occasional opportunities in the spreadsheet, by the time I tried to trade them manually the opportunities were gone.

Also, if you do manage to get consistent with the arbitrage, your account will probably get flagged and banned. Or even worse, they'll cancell your winning trades. So you'll lose on one leg. But not win on the other. One easy way for them to spot arbers is to see who always lets their daily bets settle, rather than closing out early.

Apologies if this is long winded, but I just don't want to see newbies get hurt.

 

[new_trader]

I have recently joined T2W, and I was wondering if anyone can recommend a spreadbetting company. I have belonged to finspreads for several years, and lost lots, but am still trying. But just recently am having more problems with them - having stop losses taken out almost straight away when it doesn't look as if the price has gone near it. They say it is based on Bloomberg futures, but don't show these prices on their website. Is there a way of getting to see Bloomberg futures - and as I am betting on Wall Street rolling spread (rather than Wall Street daily future) would the Bloomberg futures price really be applicable. Knowing these details is really quite important - I lost out on £300 yesterday because of this. I also belong to IG index, but haven't used them much. Is there a spreadbetting company you can really rely on? Any advice gladly received. Also any advice on strategies from someone who actually manages to win consistently.

This is a problem you will encounter with S/B companies. They usually provide a disclaimer with their charts along the lines of 'Data is indicative'. I had stops taken out when the chart was clearly 0.5 point away from my stop and I was told the same thing - it is based on Bloomberg futures. You have to understand that there is no 'cash' index instrument in the real world, it is only something S/B companies offer. One of the reasons S/B companies use futures prices for their cash index (without premium) is that futures market trades almost 24hrs whereas cash market does not.

At certain times there can be many transactions in the futures market with 100's of contracts changing hands within a second. I don't think any S/B company displays every transaction on their chart but they will use every transaction to take out your stop! It is interesting juxtaposing a DA chart with a S/B chart. The S/B chart appears to move in slow motion.

 

[new_trader]

Nice post Lee. However, I'd like to add that in my opinion arbitrage isn't that recommendable. The execution risk is huge, especially in these volatile markets. And you'll hurt your eyes trying to watch for them. I had a spreadsheet once that compared spreads between different firms, and while there were occasional opportunities in the spreadsheet, by the time I tried to trade them manually the opportunities were gone.

Also, if you do manage to get consistent with the arbitrage, your account will probably get flagged and banned. Or even worse, they'll cancell your winning trades. So you'll lose on one leg. But not win on the other. One easy way for them to spot arbers is to see who always lets their daily bets settle, rather than closing out early.

Apologies if this is long winded, but I just don't want to see newbies get hurt.

Yes. The idea is to learn how to make money trading and not how to make money exploiting loopholes in Spread betting companies....but that is just my opinion and rule No 5. from the demigod is: There is always something new to learn and a better way to do something

 

[Lee Shepherd]

Nice post Lee. However, I'd like to add that in my opinion arbitrage isn't that recommendable. The execution risk is huge, especially in these volatile markets. And you'll hurt your eyes trying to watch for them. I had a spreadsheet once that compared spreads between different firms, and while there were occasional opportunities in the spreadsheet, by the time I tried to trade them manually the opportunities were gone.

Also, if you do manage to get consistent with the arbitrage, your account will probably get flagged and banned. Or even worse, they'll cancell your winning trades. So you'll lose on one leg. But not win on the other. One easy way for them to spot arbers is to see who always lets their daily bets settle, rather than closing out early.

Apologies if this is long winded, but I just don't want to see newbies get hurt.

Hi mate,

I hear what your saying, in fact it sounds exactly like what I said in the bottom paragraph but put slightly different.

Here it is again:

"P.S: Every SB firm keeps there prices extremely similar so ARB is virtually impossible most of the time, plus with rapping around the spread and the constant moving of prices you could find yourself waiting for months before getting a viable 'hit', only to find that you also get a slow fill making the trade useless and none profitable."

As for being found out, they cant and wont. Just because your contracts settle is not good enough, many people trade this way and regular. If you noticed I said make sure the firms are unrelated, go back over the post and read it again. It is against data protection for them to share your trading history with another unrelated firm. Also, (assuming ARB is actually possible and profitable with SB's) you wouldn't always win with the same one, one of them you would lose to some of the time and some you would win with the other one some of the time, either way, they dont really care as long as you trade.

But, why are we having this conversation, as I said and made clear in my original post:

"P.S: Every SB firm keeps there prices extremely similar so ARB is virtually impossible most of the time, plus with rapping around the spread and the constant moving of prices you could find yourself waiting for months before getting a viable 'hit', only to find that you also get a slow fill making the trade useless and none profitable."


Please read posts before commenting dude.

 

[KillPhil08]

So far so good maggle.

What i recommend doing is focusing on one or two markets. Learning everything you can, and always have its chart up. You'll manage to learn it's movements, it's characteristics and when news comes out that way. I have sent you a PM.

 

[Maggle]

This is a problem you will encounter with S/B companies. They usually provide a disclaimer with their charts along the lines of 'Data is indicative'. I had stops taken out when the chart was clearly 0.5 point away from my stop and I was told the same thing - it is based on Bloomberg futures. You have to understand that there is no 'cash' index instrument in the real world, it is only something S/B companies offer. One of the reasons S/B companies use futures prices for their cash index (without premium) is that futures market trades almost 24hrs whereas cash market does not.

At certain times there can be many transactions in the futures market with 100's of contracts changing hands within a second. I don't think any S/B company displays every transaction on their chart but they will use every transaction to take out your stop! It is interesting juxtaposing a DA chart with a S/B chart. The S/B chart appears to move in slow motion.

Thanks for your reply and info on this. My stops (yesterday and the day before), were taken out when the tick chart was about 25 points above the stop loss(Wall Street rolling spread), and just a moment after I put them on when the price was stongly trending up. When I phoned and asked the price (not giving my reason for wanting to know) at the exact time of being taken out, I was told the price I expected, namely the one on the chart - in which case it shouldn't have been stopped out. When I explained the problem, the person I was talking to said he wasn't a dealer, and I should send them an email - this I have done, and received a reply saying it may take up to two days to sort out - a day later I'm still waiting. The price they used corresponded more with Wall Street daily futures. I imagine having access to Bloomberg futures would be expensive.
Well I have to sort it out with them, and imagine I will be the loser (of what would have been a gain of £300 to £400 - which is why I'm making a fuss about it).

 

[Maggle]

Thanks for your post Lee Shepherd. I did try phoning them but so far no positive result. I have put more details about this in my reply to New Trader.
I probably won't try arbitrage for now.

 

[Maggle]

So far so good maggle.

What i recommend doing is focusing on one or two markets. Learning everything you can, and always have its chart up. You'll manage to learn it's movements, it's characteristics and when news comes out that way. I have sent you a PM.

Yes - I have focussed quite a lot on the Dow Jones, looking at the live chart. At times things fall into place and I find I am correctly predicting the swings and turning points.

 

[new_trader]

Thanks for your reply and info on this. My stops (yesterday and the day before), were taken out when the tick chart was about 25 points above the stop loss(Wall Street rolling spread), and just a moment after I put them on when the price was stongly trending up. When I phoned and asked the price (not giving my reason for wanting to know) at the exact time of being taken out, I was told the price I expected, namely the one on the chart - in which case it shouldn't have been stopped out. When I explained the problem, the person I was talking to said he wasn't a dealer, and I should send them an email - this I have done, and received a reply saying it may take up to two days to sort out - a day later I'm still waiting. The price they used corresponded more with Wall Street daily futures. I imagine having access to Bloomberg futures would be expensive.
Well I have to sort it out with them, and imagine I will be the loser (of what would have been a gain of £300 to £400 - which is why I'm making a fuss about it).

Ok. Perhaps my point wasn't clear enough. The price can spike a few ES (SPX500) points in fractions of seconds at times and NOT show up on your S/B chart yet it will trigger your stops. At the time you called them the price may have been accurately reflected on your chart. They will probably offer you a transcript of the time and sales around the time your stop was triggered so you can independently verify them. That was the option I was given.

 

[Lee Shepherd]

Thanks for your post Lee Shepherd. I did try phoning them but so far no positive result. I have put more details about this in my reply to New Trader.
I probably won't try arbitrage for now.

Oh dear, It must be me......


Just to make my intentions clear, as the post obviuosly didn't come across clear enough for yourself or mauzj.

DO NOT do ARBitrage, I was merely stateing that if the prices where far out from other SB's then this would happen all the time, as it is, it doesn't, this is because the prices are not far out enough to benefit.