Some Russian companies grew by thousand percents for 8 years

JuniorMark

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Would you invest into the Russian companies in 1999, if you had known they would grow so?

1 Chelyabinsk Tube Rolling Plant Increment of market value - 41148,94 %
2 FESCO Increment of market value - 34229,75 %
3 OJSC Udmurtneft Increment of market value - 29098,98 %
4 KAMAZ Increment of market value - 26295,50%
5 Novolipetsk Steel Increment of market value - 19568,60%



Information taken from the "Russian companies market value of which grew most in 1999-2007 Top 75" rating
Russian companies market value of which grew most in 1999-2007 Top 75
 
All well and good, but not sure I'd jump in yet. Corruption is rife by all accounts, and mafia are basically running things from what we hear on a limited basis here in the press. So while there may be some bargains there , guessing there are also a ton of scams, so something that looks too good to be true could turn out to be just that.

You are absolutely right about your fear. My opinion is that it is just fear and nothing more. The same fear for the USSR.
And nevertheless that I respect your opinion, thank you.

However strange it may seem, but exactly large foreign funds invest into Russia and investments grow stably by large rates.
You described what was in the 90-ties. You probably didn’t search for the new information. Habit to think badly regarding Russia is a very strong factor.

No, I don’t convince that everything became remarkable. Problems were and will be. But much has changed in the economy, too much not to notice.
I don’t advertise the methods of investments or the companies. I tell about the facts that someone yielded profit on or who invests.


You know, I respect Germans much for their pragmatic approach. They as well as Russia suffered most from II world wars, but nevertheless they remain one of the main investors into Russia.
The German investors invest huge means facilities in energy of Russia, long-term investments. They are not afraid to change assets with the state controlled Gazprom.
They do business ... and they are sure that it is profitable.
 
Having done business in Russia for over ten years, I would say that there are good opportunities, but nothing like the paper returns quoted above. On paper there may have been multi thousand percent returns, but this assumes the base was a real value. Foreign ownership laws prevented these firms trading at their real vaulue in the fledgling post-Soviet economy, leaving oligarchs able to buy them from their employees exceptionally cheaply. Secondly, political uncertainty leaves you wide open even if you decide to invest now; nationalist governments are pursuing a policy of crypto-nationalisation, aiming to return all assets to Russian, if not state, control. Thirdly an arcane legal system makes it overly expensive and difficult to compete there - even Alpari, a Russian FX broker, routes its Russian clients to it's FSA regulated subsidiary in London.

It's not a level playing field, so why invest?
 
I am 100% certain there there are some absolutely outstanding opportunities to be had in this area, but I am also 100% certain that there is huge potential to be scammed there.

Combine this with the fact that I'm also 100% certain I'm not in a great position to evaluate the difference between the two from where I'm sitting, and I'm sure you can see why I'm reticent.

That said, I like the Jim Rogers approach to it - just hop on your motorbike, head out there and actually go visit the coutries / companies in emerging markets for yourself.

If anyone's not sure what I'm on about you could either do a google search on him, or maybe on "investment biker".
GJ

Investment bike is a brilliant suggestion for those who search...
I'm interested in your opinion what you would like to know about far countries that you're not going to visit on your investment bike..
Because there are common criteria of investment attraction... And there are private moments.....What are they for you?
 
I am 100% certain there there are some absolutely outstanding opportunities to be had in this area, but I am also 100% certain that there is huge potential to be scammed there.

Combine this with the fact that I'm also 100% certain I'm not in a great position to evaluate the difference between the two from where I'm sitting, and I'm sure you can see why I'm reticent.

That said, I like the Jim Rogers approach to it - just hop on your motorbike, head out there and actually go visit the coutries / companies in emerging markets for yourself.

If anyone's not sure what I'm on about you could either do a google search on him, or maybe on "investment biker".


GJ



Jim Rogers - " what a cool guy - what a life " ............(y)
 
Having done business in Russia for over ten years, I would say that there are good opportunities, but nothing like the paper returns quoted above. On paper there may have been multi thousand percent returns, but this assumes the base was a real value. Foreign ownership laws prevented these firms trading at their real vaulue in the fledgling post-Soviet economy, leaving oligarchs able to buy them from their employees exceptionally cheaply. Secondly, political uncertainty leaves you wide open even if you decide to invest now; nationalist governments are pursuing a policy of crypto-nationalisation, aiming to return all assets to Russian, if not state, control. Thirdly an arcane legal system makes it overly expensive and difficult to compete there - even Alpari, a Russian FX broker, routes its Russian clients to it's FSA regulated subsidiary in London.

It's not a level playing field, so why invest?


So dont invest - just trade them. why not forget the Politics and just trade off the price - Politicians the WORLD OVER are just in it for THEMSELVES anyway -
Commodity/Energy prices are on a bull run generally, so any Russian Company working in that field would show you a good return -
Novolipetsk Steel
Severstal
Gazprom
LUKOil
OGK - 3

there must be loads of em - you could even spread bet any of those and make a CHUNK ..!!
 
Having done business in Russia for over ten years, I would say that there are good opportunities, but nothing like the paper returns quoted above. On paper there may have been multi thousand percent returns, but this assumes the base was a real value. Foreign ownership laws prevented these firms trading at their real vaulue in the fledgling post-Soviet economy, leaving oligarchs able to buy them from their employees exceptionally cheaply. Secondly, political uncertainty leaves you wide open even if you decide to invest now; nationalist governments are pursuing a policy of crypto-nationalisation, aiming to return all assets to Russian, if not state, control. Thirdly an arcane legal system makes it overly expensive and difficult to compete there - even Alpari, a Russian FX broker, routes its Russian clients to it's FSA regulated subsidiary in London.

It's not a level playing field, so why invest?

Thank you for your post.

You are mostly right. But as for some aspects I don’t quite agree with you.
It is mpossible after the USSR collapse to change the country quickly over the European standards, and little that can be done at all. In Russia there is the special method of business conduct that I suppose you know but it seems at least unstable and inconvenient to you. However, the European values written in laws are executed in Europe... In Russia laws are executed by the population and legal entities ... with a changeable success. Not because they don’t want ... just because they didn’t live by the law ...
But if you know the pecularities of business conduct, I think you know how to be successful in Russia.

The political situation is stable ... it is my opinion. The country is governed in one course for 8 years – from the center... They even managed to set some control over the regions, that was not in the 90-th.
Do you doubt that the course will be continued? As for me I don’t doubt that the elections wins Putin’s successor.
Except for administrative resource, there is the strong population support that got used to the strong hand at power.
Medvedev (Putin’s successor) – is even a more liberal politician. We will look at his rule. It is possible to say that the same course will be next 8 years.

You talk about nationalization ... it proceeds only in the an oil and gas sector, but it is the non-Russian phenomenon ... The same is with the countries rich with hydrocarbons countries, all are controlled by governments. Is it really possible to give up such profits in budget?

Other industries can be named as private, extraction of minerals for example ... All large enterprises are private.
The state sells out its parts constantly. Those national corporations that are set up currently, amalgamate those branches of industries that are out of needed volumes in the state’s opinion. And what is important that the enterprises producing weapon are amalgamated.
I already read a lot of information that part of capital of almost all enterprises entering these public corporations will be given to private hands later.
And Russia earns much from the sale of weapon.

The Russian brokers work differently ... I know that there is a very conveniet scheme of work through Cyprus, for optimization of taxation. Maybe everything is complicated... but a competition among managing companies grows very quickly ...the large number of managing companies is set up.
 
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