SOCIETY OF TECHNICAL ANALYSTS -Anyone a member ?

[nkruger]

Good afternoon one and all.

Have any of you out there ever been (or still are) a member of the STA ? (www.sta-uk.org ) Has it been advantageous for you ? Was it worth it ? Let us know your thoughts on the subject.

 

[temptrader]

as mentioned by real traders, no one would give a damn about such a society or spent pointless hours working towards their qualifications. Sorry to be blunt, but the only thing that matters is doing it for yourself live instead of following some silly suggestions by a bunch of people who probably never traded successfully in their lives.

 

[level_head]

A strong opinion there, temptrader. Have you ever been to an STA meeting to confirm your opinion that they're a bunch of losers who don't trade? You may actually find that STA Meetings are a meeting of like-minded individuals from all walks of life who meet to discuss the markets and expand their knowledge. I assume that by posting on this message board you're interested in knowing what others are thinking or doing? This is exactly what you could get from the STA, if you bothered to try it before judging it.

So to nkruger, I would suggest you contact the STA via the website and arrange to come along to the next available meeting (Which I think is September now, as July is fully booked and August is always a month off), then you can judge for yourself. We welcome guests with an interest in trading and analysing the markets and Technical Analysis techniques.

 

[temptrader]

And just why would a newbie want to sit the Society of Technical Analysis exams?

No trader I know would want to waste their time on gaining a piece of paper to say they know the theory, when the most important part of trading is practice.

Trading is one of those professions where, alas, theoretical qualifications account for very little.

Think about it clearly, if you were making decent money trading why would you give a f*ck what consititutes proper understanding of TA laid down by other people? Skim also made very telling remarks about Bulkowski's books that most people overlooked. I've always had the same missgivings about his books but only she put her neck out to state them.

I think most traders on this board who are making consistent money will join me in agreeing that working towards such qualifications is a total utter waste of time. Laughable in fact, like the majority of trading books which are, alas, not really written for the readers benefit . . . .

 

[Hoggums]

Trading is one of those professions where, alas, theoretical qualifications account for very little.

Think about it clearly, if you were making decent money trading why would you give a f*ck what consititutes proper understanding of TA laid down by other people? Skim also made very telling remarks about Bulkowski's books that most people overlooked. I've always had the same missgivings about his books but only she put her neck out to state them.

I think most traders on this board who are making consistent money will join me in agreeing that working towards such qualifications is a total utter waste of time. Laughable in fact, like the majority of trading books which are, alas, not really written for the readers benefit . . . .

I totally disagree with you, I think it is important to have a grasp of TA as it is a self fullfilling prophecy. A lot of people who trade the markets look at the technicals and trade accordingly - as a result the market is influenced by the conclusions TA gives. Just look at any index chart over the last 5 years - how many times has it bounced off the bottom and top of the trend channels. Especially at a time like now where the fundamentals are getting ignored on the carry.

If you are saying TA is rubbish then you are saying that the markets are random - if that is the case we all might as well give up now and go to the casino!

People taking the TA exams are generally doing it to get into the investment industry - a qualification that will put you a step ahead of someone who doesn't have it.

 

[temptrader]

Depends on what you're looking to get out of it. Remember, not all the people on these boards are retail traders punting tiny amounts in cable on some cr*ppy 5 min chart (not that I'm saying you are of course). There are all sorts of people within the 70k membership of T2W.

That said I wholeheartedly agree that theory can count for very little in the market, but that doesn't mean there can't be a place for training on how to apply practical techniques. And often with these sorts of bodies that's exactly what is on offer. I've seen the syllabus for the ACI diploma and am still mulling it over. Only thing stopping me is that I swore last time I did an exam (my IMC) that that was enough for me. I like my free time too much.

My $0.02 as always

GJ

Well in that case it would be different: I was merely seeing this from the point of view of the private traders who wish to make a profession of this. If you were working for an institution then it would be different, since getting a promotion/job with them might require some of these qualifications as a stepping stone.

But if you, like me, are trying to make this game pay on your own wits and resources, working towards this piece of paper is a total waste of time.

 

[temptrader]

I totally disagree with you, I think it is important to have a grasp of TA as it is a self fullfilling prophecy. A lot of people who trade the markets look at the technicals and trade accordingly - as a result the market is influenced by the conclusions TA gives. Just look at any index chart over the last 5 years - how many times has it bounced off the bottom and top of the trend channels. Especially at a time like now where the fundamentals are getting ignored on the carry.

If you are saying TA is rubbish then you are saying that the markets are random - if that is the case we all might as well give up now and go to the casino!

I did not say TA is rubbish, but working towards a qualification for it from a self appointed body is pointless if you want to make it in this game as a private trader on your own wits and resources.

People taking the TA exams are generally doing it to get into the investment industry - a qualification that will put you a step ahead of someone who doesn't have it.

cough, cough, erm . . . cough. That's from an employee perspective. If you want to make this game of trading work, you are basically working for yourself, and therefore not subject to the whims of the marketplace. I know many mathematicians who virtually know their subject inside out, and their knowledge is almost encyclopedic, but they never produced any decent ground breaking papers. The university still keeps them since they produce the odd paper here and there once in a decade or so:cheesy: , and they're great for teaching undergrads and organising tutorials, seminars etc. . .

 

[Hoggums]

I did not say TA is rubbish, but working towards a qualification for it from a self appointed body is pointless if you want to make it in this game as a private trader on your own wits and resources.



cough, cough, erm . . . cough. That's from an employee perspective. If you want to make this game of trading work, you are basically working for yourself, and therefore not subject to the whims of the marketplace. I know many mathematicians who virtually know their subject inside out, and their knowledge is almost encyclopedic, but they never produced any decent ground breaking papers. The university still keeps them since they produce the odd paper here and there once in a decade or so:cheesy: , and they're great for teaching undergrads and organising tutorials, seminars etc. . .

Yes you are right in some respects - I would not pay money to take the exam - that doesn't mean I wouldn't be interested in attending the course. I think it's always a good idea to open yourself up to new methods/teaching - whether you use them or not. I think to dismiss out of hand the qualification is an overreaction. If you did the course and added just a small percentage of what you learned to your trading arsenal - wouldn't it be worth it?

Also - I never trade on my wits - it's usually a calm and collected affair. I hope that was a figure of speech on your part!

 

[nkruger]

It might teach you some trading discipline - you never know. Personally what I'd do is take a look at the syllabus and see if it's of any relevance to you (either for where your trading is now or perhaps more importantly, for where you would like your trading to be as / when your skills develop).

GJ

Exactly GJ, this is where my interest lies with the STA, to see if it can further my knowledge in TA in the particular direction I'm heading. I have a basic 'grounding' in the parts of TA that I use every day in the markets (I trade full time) but I feel there is always more to learn, whether it's from a book, DVD, the STA, I don't mind. As with most traders (I believe ?) I have quite a bit of time on my hands with which to spend researching, so doing an STA course would not be out of the question, if I feel it was relevant. I could of course, go and read 20 TA books instead, but I think the social interaction might be advantageous. Overall, I disagree with you, TempTrader.

Happy trading....

NK

 

[temptrader]

Exactly GJ, this is where my interest lies with the STA, to see if it can further my knowledge in TA in the particular direction I'm heading. I have a basic 'grounding' in the parts of TA that I use every day in the markets (I trade full time) but I feel there is always more to learn, whether it's from a book, DVD, the STA, I don't mind. As with most traders (I believe ?) I have quite a bit of time on my hands with which to spend researching, so doing an STA course would not be out of the question, if I feel it was relevant. I could of course, go and read 20 TA books instead, but I think the social interaction might be advantageous. Overall, I disagree with you, TempTrader.

Happy trading....

NK

If you're making money, and you have all this free time on your hands then great, go for it . . . nothing to disagree with there. Personally, it would just be a total waste of my time:cheesy:

 

[Charlton]

Exactly GJ, this is where my interest lies with the STA, to see if it can further my knowledge in TA in the particular direction I'm heading. I have a basic 'grounding' in the parts of TA that I use every day in the markets (I trade full time) but I feel there is always more to learn, whether it's from a book, DVD, the STA, I don't mind. As with most traders (I believe ?) I have quite a bit of time on my hands with which to spend researching, so doing an STA course would not be out of the question, if I feel it was relevant. I could of course, go and read 20 TA books instead, but I think the social interaction might be advantageous. Overall, I disagree with you, TempTrader.

Happy trading....

NK

From your post it seems that you do not envisage taking the examination. I think that you could easily follow the syllabus on your own, because on the STA site they provide details of the syllabus on a week by week basis as well as the core reading list

http://www.sta-uk.org/education.htm#Corereading

So the question is do you want to pay an extra £85 joining/membership fee to attend the meetings ? plus any other fringe benefits.

At least, being a full time trader and not being a newbie, you will be in a good position to evaluate the worth of the course.

Charlton

 

[Plimpton322]

Tecnhical Analysis

Temptrader obviously doesn't know what the STA is all about. In fact over 65% of the members these days are professionals working in hedge funds, investment banks and asset management companies. Monthly meetings are an opportunity for like minded people to get together, learn more about the subject, discuss markets and generally meet up with friends in the industry. As far as the STA Diploma Exam is concerned, while Temptrader may not rate it, he is very much in a minority. In fact the STA Diploma has not only been going for decades here in the UK but it has also been selected by the International Federation of Technical Analysts (IFTA) to be their international standard for professional technical research. Where I would agree with temptrader is that qualifications alone will not make anyone a better trader necessarily. However, the discipline of using technical analysis as part of a trading strategy is extremely helpful and its no surprise that virtually all prop traders and hedge fund managers employ it to their advantage. While temptrader clearly prefers to let the market teach him lessons. I much prefer to learn from the experiences of others first. I studied for the STA Diploma shortly after I started trading in the 80s and found the experience of studying for the STA Diploma (and the techniques I picked up) extremely useful.

Temptrader's comments remind me of a Chinese proverb - "Learning is like rowing upstream: not to advance is to drop back." - If Temptrader is not careful one day he might find himself going downstream in the markets without a paddle.

 

[temptrader]

Temptrader obviously doesn't know what the STA is all about. In fact over 65% of the members these days are professionals working in hedge funds, investment banks and asset management companies. Monthly meetings are an opportunity for like minded people to get together, learn more about the subject, discuss markets and generally meet up with friends in the industry.

If you wish to run a social club that's fine by me.:cheesy: :cheesy:

As far as the STA Diploma Exam is concerned, while Temptrader may not rate it, he is very much in a minority. In fact the STA Diploma has not only been going for decades here in the UK but it has also been selected by the International Federation of Technical Analysts (IFTA) to be their international standard for professional technical research.

"international standard for professional technical research . . . " LOL, Let me see now: if I was taking serious money out of the markets would I even care for technical journals, what they print, what they say, etc. . . . nah, means nothing to me. To much info, too much to take in, and not necessary. So what do the folks at IFTA actually do? Some say trading is an art, if that's the case then having a committee of people decide what consitutes a triangle breakout or not would be like artists arguing over what kind of paintbrush to use - utterly pointless.

Where I would agree with temptrader is that qualifications alone will not make anyone a better trader necessarily. However, the discipline of using technical analysis as part of a trading strategy is extremely helpful and its no surprise that virtually all prop traders and hedge fund managers employ it to their advantage. While temptrader clearly prefers to let the market teach him lessons. I much prefer to learn from the experiences of others first. I studied for the STA Diploma shortly after I started trading in the 80s and found the experience of studying for the STA Diploma (and the techniques I picked up) extremely useful.

Temptrader's comments remind me of a Chinese proverb - "Learning is like rowing upstream: not to advance is to drop back." - If Temptrader is not careful one day he might find himself going downstream in the markets without a paddle.

The problem with learning from others is that you will find most of it will never suit you. If you find the STA useful good for you. I find trading a personal thing, something you experience day in, day out. Socrates explains it better than I. As I get on my journey more and more, and get better and better I find most of the stuff that is written utter rubbish. That's not my ego talking but the sober truth. Traders who make decent money day in day out are in the utter minority, the vast majority will try to get hold of any lifeline they can, not realising that most of these lifelines are either scams or are of no worth. But mind you I rather go on the STA course than those offered by the likes of Darren Winters and Vince Stanzione any day:cheesy: :cheesy: :cheesy:

 

[temptrader]

And anyway - I notice that even you yourself, a pretty committed individualist from the tone of your postings, stop short of saying 'None of it will ever suit you'. So if you admit that there's a chance that a given person / course or whatever could be of some help to you then your problem becomes one of trying to figure out which of these opportunities is worth your investment of time / effort / dough.

Of course there are things that can help you. I never said all of it was worthless. If you want to be pedantic then we could say Darren Winters material has some gems in it, so has Vince Stanzione's, but what is most of their scams worth? Get my drift . . . . :cheesy: :cheesy:

 

[Canaletto]

As you will see from the number of posts I am a novice and not a regular here. I am a chap in his 40s with a successful retail business and I am now limiting the time spent running it. My plan was to go back into the world of education for myself perhaps at doctorate level and my area of interest would have been mathematics.

I have played with daytrading and lost money but enjoyed the experience so I was interested to read this thread. My question is does anyone know of a full time course be it at Masters or a higher level which is specifically or at best broadly aimed at trading? I know there will be people who will think why doesn't he just buy a few books, read T2W and so on but I am set on "going back to school".

I appreciate this may not be the forum to ask this question but any guidance would really be appreciated. Many thanks.

 

[temptrader]

As you will see from the number of posts I am a novice and not a regular here. I am a chap in his 40s with a successful retail business and I am now limiting the time spent running it. My plan was to go back into the world of education for myself perhaps at doctorate level and my area of interest would have been mathematics.

I have played with daytrading and lost money but enjoyed the experience so I was interested to read this thread. My question is does anyone know of a full time course be it at Masters or a higher level which is specifically or at best broadly aimed at trading? I know there will be people who will think why doesn't he just buy a few books, read T2W and so on but I am set on "going back to school".

I appreciate this may not be the forum to ask this question but any guidance would really be appreciated. Many thanks.

From my experience it doesn't work that way. If success in trading were just down to formal qualifications then most people would be doing it. Depending who you speak to, it's an entirely different ball game imho.

I'm going to be a professional mathematician myself, but comparing doing mathematics and trading is the wrong way of going about it.

Whereas in mathematics things are mostly clearcut (apart from notable exceptions which I need not go into here), trading is not. In mathematics if you want to solve a nasty problem you read all the literature that you get your hands on, absorb and think abuot it for a long time, plan your attack, look at other people's work, etc. . . and even then the problem might not yield due to technicalities etc . . that where learning things formally helps. When a problem is solved that's it, it's clear cut.

Trading is not like this. I can't put it in a more succinct way. The best person to read is Socrates (even though he's had bad press lately).

I'm not surprised you've lost money day trading, took me 4 years to get to where I am. If you think the game is easy you're asking for a lot of pain.

 

[Charlton]

As you will see from the number of posts I am a novice and not a regular here. I am a chap in his 40s with a successful retail business and I am now limiting the time spent running it. My plan was to go back into the world of education for myself perhaps at doctorate level and my area of interest would have been mathematics.

I have played with daytrading and lost money but enjoyed the experience so I was interested to read this thread. My question is does anyone know of a full time course be it at Masters or a higher level which is specifically or at best broadly aimed at trading? I know there will be people who will think why doesn't he just buy a few books, read T2W and so on but I am set on "going back to school".

I appreciate this may not be the forum to ask this question but any guidance would really be appreciated. Many thanks.

You might consider the securities and investments institute. Here is a list of training companies - look at other parts of their site for details of examinations/syllabus.

http://www.sii.org.uk/web5/infopool.nsf/HTML/rTrainingCompanies

Charlton

 

[Canaletto]

I really appreciate the replies yesterday and thank you for the advice. I shall look at the options and hope my new direction will allow me more time to read this board.

 

[mightymayesy]

TempTrader, you are a complete idiot.

S

 

[forker]

the only idiot here is the one commenting on a post dated 2007.