charliechan
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pratbh said:
everyone but us it would appear (and frugi)
everyone but us it would appear (and frugi)
SOCRATES
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The Perils of Impersonation.
I must tell you all about this, I have just remembered, talking about impersonation...and its perils.....
Albert Einstien was progressing on a lecture tour in the US, in the early 1950's, sponsored by Princeton University.
And he did this travelliing by road, in a chauffer driven car.
By coincidence, his driver bore a striking resemblance to him, and as the tour progressed, both men got to know each other very well.
On one occasion, my namesake confided in his driver that he was bored, because at every presentation people were apt to ask the same silly questions, again and again, just like here.
The driver promptly came up with a brilliant idea to relieve the boredom for the beleagured physicist.
"Well boss" he ventured to say, "I have heard you deliver the same presentation every time, and I have heard it so often, that I feel confident to be able to stand up there on the podium with the blackboard, and deliver it myself, exactly as you do".
Albert, who was sitting on the front seat, next to the driver, turned to him and replied with a grin on his face "Now that is a really interesting idea"..."do you think we could get away with it ?".
"Sure !" Said the driver, "don't forget that there are many people who haven't met you personally or seen you before except in newsreels or photographs"....
"Shall we try it ?" asked Albert mischiviously.
"Yes, why not !" replied the driver.
So there and then, they went into a gas station, and went into the gents and swapped clothes and hats, and Albert takes the wheel of the car, and finally they arrive at the venue, that was packed.
Now at the back of the hall there was a cold buffet serving dinners.
Albert caught sight of these dinners and promptly helped himself to one and put it on a tray, and sat down quietly at the back of the hall and began to tuck in.
The driver was announced, and he walked in, down the aisle, to tremendous applause, and mounted the podium, and began his explanations.
This went on for some time and the audience, though undoubtedly not understanding very much, was in rapture, you could hear pins drop, as the driver proceeded to explain in detail with diagrams and equations why and how the Theory of Relativity actually worked, and so on.
Unfortunately, one of the organisers had the idea to invite the audience to ask questions,
Many of these questions were sort of personal, you know, about what he liked or did not like, and what he believed or did not, and about his formative years, and some questions about physics, that Albert had answered in detail at other venues that the driver had been present at and so all this went very well so far.
But now someone in the front row ventured to ask a very difficult question that had the driver completely stumped because he had never heard it asked or answered before. As fortunately there was only one or two minutes left of the session, the timing could not have been better.
The driver explained that he had answered that question so many times, that he was tired of answering it, but he was sure that even his driver, who was sitting at the back of the hall eating a turkey dinner would be capable of answering the question for him, since the concept was so simple, so basic.
He then called upon Albert to answer the question from the back of the hall.
All necks were craned backwards to hear the explanation, which proved to be very satisfactory indeed and was able to satisfy totally the curiosity of the enquirer, and that was that.
And so they left hurriedly, but never tried that stunt ever again.
I must tell you all about this, I have just remembered, talking about impersonation...and its perils.....
Albert Einstien was progressing on a lecture tour in the US, in the early 1950's, sponsored by Princeton University.
And he did this travelliing by road, in a chauffer driven car.
By coincidence, his driver bore a striking resemblance to him, and as the tour progressed, both men got to know each other very well.
On one occasion, my namesake confided in his driver that he was bored, because at every presentation people were apt to ask the same silly questions, again and again, just like here.
The driver promptly came up with a brilliant idea to relieve the boredom for the beleagured physicist.
"Well boss" he ventured to say, "I have heard you deliver the same presentation every time, and I have heard it so often, that I feel confident to be able to stand up there on the podium with the blackboard, and deliver it myself, exactly as you do".
Albert, who was sitting on the front seat, next to the driver, turned to him and replied with a grin on his face "Now that is a really interesting idea"..."do you think we could get away with it ?".
"Sure !" Said the driver, "don't forget that there are many people who haven't met you personally or seen you before except in newsreels or photographs"....
"Shall we try it ?" asked Albert mischiviously.
"Yes, why not !" replied the driver.
So there and then, they went into a gas station, and went into the gents and swapped clothes and hats, and Albert takes the wheel of the car, and finally they arrive at the venue, that was packed.
Now at the back of the hall there was a cold buffet serving dinners.
Albert caught sight of these dinners and promptly helped himself to one and put it on a tray, and sat down quietly at the back of the hall and began to tuck in.
The driver was announced, and he walked in, down the aisle, to tremendous applause, and mounted the podium, and began his explanations.
This went on for some time and the audience, though undoubtedly not understanding very much, was in rapture, you could hear pins drop, as the driver proceeded to explain in detail with diagrams and equations why and how the Theory of Relativity actually worked, and so on.
Unfortunately, one of the organisers had the idea to invite the audience to ask questions,
Many of these questions were sort of personal, you know, about what he liked or did not like, and what he believed or did not, and about his formative years, and some questions about physics, that Albert had answered in detail at other venues that the driver had been present at and so all this went very well so far.
But now someone in the front row ventured to ask a very difficult question that had the driver completely stumped because he had never heard it asked or answered before. As fortunately there was only one or two minutes left of the session, the timing could not have been better.
The driver explained that he had answered that question so many times, that he was tired of answering it, but he was sure that even his driver, who was sitting at the back of the hall eating a turkey dinner would be capable of answering the question for him, since the concept was so simple, so basic.
He then called upon Albert to answer the question from the back of the hall.
All necks were craned backwards to hear the explanation, which proved to be very satisfactory indeed and was able to satisfy totally the curiosity of the enquirer, and that was that.
And so they left hurriedly, but never tried that stunt ever again.
Last edited:
mark_ b_27
Wanted to come back to your post from page 10.
This is exactly the point of the thread in the first place.
Just to pick up on a couple of your points, and cut to the chase as it were.
You have postulated a slightly different reason for staying part of the herd, and it is a psychological one. It is valid, however, there is a second reason.
This is, within Technical analysis there is no other way to profit from trading other than by capital appreciation, and chasing the momentum.
This forces you to join the herd.
You have to. There is no other way of extracting a profit from trading. The shorter the timeframe, the more accurate the assertion.
Beautiful.
And if they were 100% efficient, I also would be trading in a technical manner, or professionally gambling.
Exactly so.
Which is where we came in.
Does your methodology identify market inefficiencies?
If it does not, understand that you are partaking in gambling. Nothing right or wrong with that, just understand the reality.
If your methodology does identify market inefficiencies, then you have a viable EDGE
There was a thread...........Do you have an edge................
Nothing much came of it. It was however the correct question.
Take it away my son.
Cheers d998
Wanted to come back to your post from page 10.
This is exactly the point of the thread in the first place.
Just to pick up on a couple of your points, and cut to the chase as it were.
You have postulated a slightly different reason for staying part of the herd, and it is a psychological one. It is valid, however, there is a second reason.
This is, within Technical analysis there is no other way to profit from trading other than by capital appreciation, and chasing the momentum.
This forces you to join the herd.
You have to. There is no other way of extracting a profit from trading. The shorter the timeframe, the more accurate the assertion.
Beautiful.
And if they were 100% efficient, I also would be trading in a technical manner, or professionally gambling.
Exactly so.
Which is where we came in.
Does your methodology identify market inefficiencies?
If it does not, understand that you are partaking in gambling. Nothing right or wrong with that, just understand the reality.
If your methodology does identify market inefficiencies, then you have a viable EDGE
There was a thread...........Do you have an edge................
Nothing much came of it. It was however the correct question.
Take it away my son.
Cheers d998
I truly dislike the term "herd" ..it's so fuzzy and non specific..but today's paper supplied me with just the right definition for the term 'herd' ...and if people thought this was just a poxy handful of retail traders ..then think again...here it is in full stampede...please have a read and by the way it even mentions irrational markets
http://www.business.telegraph.co.uk...nuId=242&sSheet=/money/2005/07/03/ixcoms.html
http://www.business.telegraph.co.uk...nuId=242&sSheet=/money/2005/07/03/ixcoms.html
Chump,
That is a good article that puts collective folly in perspective. As you stated in your post, it is not just the retail investor that has the lemming attitude and in many ways they tend to replicate the 'professionals' in all respects (trades, losses, ego, bad decisions etc.).
I have always held the view that a good trader should outperform the 'professionals' as the perceived advantages they have over the private trader are negated by other factors such as speed of execution of trades due to size; no need to consult before trading and the individual trade having a bigger impact on returns due to the size of capital. That said, there tends to be a misconception that banks and funds have much more information available than the independent trader which is certainly far from the truth.
TA is based on amongst other things - charts; and it does not matter who you are or how much capital you have, you are looking at the same charts and it should reveal the same answers. The fundamentals are also the same and data and information are available to all.
One of the problems encountered by private traders is a lack of self belief which tends to lead to thinking of conspiracy theories, market manipulation, non transparent pricing and the deliberate provision of misleading information. Once one can conquer this handicap, it becomes easier to focus on the task of making money in the markets.
That is a good article that puts collective folly in perspective. As you stated in your post, it is not just the retail investor that has the lemming attitude and in many ways they tend to replicate the 'professionals' in all respects (trades, losses, ego, bad decisions etc.).
I have always held the view that a good trader should outperform the 'professionals' as the perceived advantages they have over the private trader are negated by other factors such as speed of execution of trades due to size; no need to consult before trading and the individual trade having a bigger impact on returns due to the size of capital. That said, there tends to be a misconception that banks and funds have much more information available than the independent trader which is certainly far from the truth.
TA is based on amongst other things - charts; and it does not matter who you are or how much capital you have, you are looking at the same charts and it should reveal the same answers. The fundamentals are also the same and data and information are available to all.
One of the problems encountered by private traders is a lack of self belief which tends to lead to thinking of conspiracy theories, market manipulation, non transparent pricing and the deliberate provision of misleading information. Once one can conquer this handicap, it becomes easier to focus on the task of making money in the markets.
When the masses are being slaughtered how does one benefit by being one of them? If the individual is trading for a living how do the liabilities get met? That would be the logic of a bad trader, one who is doomed to failure and mediocrity.
As I have stated earlier in this thread, the average US mutual fund is up 0.3% year to date. Imagine a trader with £25,000 capital, it amounts to a king's ransom of £750 for 6 months. That does not cover running costs but I suppose one could always moonlight in the local supermarket stacking shelves at night.
As I have stated earlier in this thread, the average US mutual fund is up 0.3% year to date. Imagine a trader with £25,000 capital, it amounts to a king's ransom of £750 for 6 months. That does not cover running costs but I suppose one could always moonlight in the local supermarket stacking shelves at night.
SOCRATES said:
Still waiting Soc? I made a very serious charge against you and charliechan. Does it not bother you that neither Frugi, nor any other mod nor Sharky has come out in your or charliechan's defence? Even after almost 24 hours?
They know, Albert.
Also, charliechan seems to gone a bit quiet lately. Is he OK? I am surprised that he hasn't tried to bite my head off yet. After all, the allegations are serious, much more serious than what is needed to provoke Soc or charliechan into a frenzied counter-attack.
Let's just watch the fun.
theknifemac
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pratbh said:
I took Frugi's post 198 to mean he was pretty sure Soc and CC were not the same person.
charliechan
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SOCRATES said:
but i think he already has in his earlier post.
unless i (we?) am (are) talking to my (our) self again!!
btw - i would like to go on record here as stating that spread trading is not, and has little to do with arbitrage as i may have mislead others earlier. so, as much as it humbles me to admit it, ducatti is in fact correct when he picked me up on this.
my only defence is that it was late at night and i was quite tiered.
charliechan
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pratbh said:
are you blind?
frugi has already told you that you are barking up the wrong tree.
didnt you get his little jest earlier? why do you persist on trivia?
as for why i never came back earlier - its because i try to spend time away from the screen at weekends. this web site is not my life you know.
why would i want to bite your head off? i believe socrates has already made it clear that sometimes the ignorant are best left alone.
charliechan
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LION63 said:
with all respect lion, a good day trader with several years under the belt can quite easily make 50% and more per month on an account of £25k.
the risk management methods employed will be quite alien to a buy and hold frame of reference. although i should pointout that alien does not mean irresponsible. i am sure you appreciate that just because we are not familiar with a concept, it does not make it irresponsible
one of the benefits of the day trader is that he does not need to keep large amounts of capital in his account in order to earn his money (for a start).
eg in some of the london arcades, there are guys earning in excess of £1m pa, yet rarely have more than £40k in their accounts.
some of the characteristics that you mention in your earlier post allow them to do this, along with a strong belief in themselves, and their abilities, rather than bothering about whether markets are efficient or not, and trying to solve the puzzle with a junior ant city from toys r us, complete with toilet roll tubes and other nonsense!
charliechan
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pratbh said:
why dont you just drop it and apologise to socrates?
is your life really so dull that daft politics with faceless identities are all that concern you?
get a grip.
get a life.
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