SJ Capital group

[oranjdeboom]

pboyles, I don't recall saying I was hoping to make money from this sort of investment or indeed that my intentions are to discredit anyone or any company. As my first post and subsequent posts state, my intention is to try and garner some truth either behind the allegations being made here or to uphold the argument put forward in Waynesas previous post in defence of SJ Capital.

I don't know the intentions behind your posts, but am happy to make the assumption that they are honourable until proven otherwise.

I have no interest in the past activities of SJ Capital, or any of its directors or employees. Any links SJ Capital has to Bally Chohan at present ( if any) need to be confirmed by fact and not by speculation, hence why, although I appreciate all your posts present and previous, I rely on my own research and due diligence.

I have this morning spoken to the previous owners of the land at Houghton Regis (their names are on the deeds and a quick google search threw up a contact number), although they seemed a bit taken back by my call they where not entirely surprised by my call. I was given confirmation that no agreement has been made for the disposition of the land under Southern & Regionals ownership by Southern & Regional or any of it's agents or affiliated companies.

The owners stated that up until this week they had no knowledge of SJ Capital or that SJ Capital was indeed marketing/selling the land in the manner described in their sales material. They freely confirmed that they sold the land in 2008 on the understanding that the purchasers would pursue a planning permission and once this planning was gained then a developer would be sought to purchase the land and the uplift divided between both parties. They stated that they had been approached by Brian Smith in March last year with a view to selling their remaining interest in the site, however the deal was not finalised and was called off by the previous owners in early December of last year. The previous owners are seeking legal advice now as to their position with a view to starting litigation against Southern & Regional, although they wouldnt confirm at what stage this is at.

I thanked them for their time and made my apologies for disturbing them on a Sunday.


Make of it what you will. Personally, I hope that the company offers a response to the questions posed and can justify it's course actions of late. Until such time................ the jury is out!

 

[pboyles]

Brian Smith was one of the guys running the UKLI scam.

Paul Charney Brian Smith Bally Chohan UKLI

 

[Poem 101]

Jury's out? Why? Is this jury retarded? Does this jury need to be robbed at knife-point before it recognizes the obvious?

Blatant scam.

 

[oranjdeboom]

Perhaps if the jury is likened to the FSA then perhaps they do need to be robbed at knifepoint before taking action.

I prefer a more pragmatic approach to the issue here, and rather than make too many assumptions and allegations that may or may not be untrue, it might be in the best interest of all concerned to seek out and confirm the truth in FACT.

The link that pboyles posted in his previous post is an update dated 26.01.12, I had seen the article, but a disclaimer and clause on the website prevents distribution of the content of the site either in physical form or by way of electronic means. The website regulations only allow for one copy to be printed off for personal use, hence why I didnt post up the link. Now the link has been posted we can examine it's contents further.

The article is headed where are they now? and goes on to list the directors and people involve in UKli.


The author then goes on to list a variety of questions aimed at Paul Charney & Brian Smith and lists some answers Paul Charney has provided. I see no reason to expand further at the moment on this section of the article however the lack of response from Brian Smith to the article could be quite unnerving to some.

One or two of the questions posed by the author have indeed been answered today on this thread, in particular the ownership of the Houghton Regis site, but as is always in these sort of situations, the more questions answered the more questions are asked. ' They say ,once opened, the can may no longer be home to the worms'

I find no use for old recycled articles relating to UKLi or it's former operators, what is clear is that there are issues here but one liners proclaiming 'Blatant Scam' etc.etc. serve no purpose in finding out the real truth, and if the truth happens to put the scammers to bed ( or indeed their accusers) then so be it.

I have only troved across this new site (houghton regis)that SJ Capital have launched and being somewhat closer to home for me I have focused my attentions there. I will however, now my interest has been ignited, seek to apply my Sherlock tactics to the other sites within the SJ Capital portfolio to see if anything untoward transpires. I am hoping that Waynesa will provide a swift response though in order that I can return to my mere humble day job.

 

[Poem 101]

You p1ss as much time away as you want on your investigation. The truth will be the same, namely that this is a scam, because they are all scams.

A moment's thought should be enough for anyone who isn't actually brain damaged to work out why this is the case.

 

[oranjdeboom]

You p1ss as much time away as you want on your investigation. The truth will be the same, namely that this is a scam, because they are all scams.

A moment's thought should be enough for anyone who isn't actually brain damaged to work out why this is the case.

Poem101, Unsure as to the reason behind such a response from you, albeit one would assume we are all here to share knowledge and expose the truth, regardless whether that truth fits in with our own opinions or not.

Perhaps you would be so kind as to enlighten the thread your reason for such a vociferous stance against SJ Capital in the absence of proven FACTS. Or is it that perhaps you are making such a poor case against them in order to make others believe that there is no case they need answer to?.

I have pointed out facts , most that are in the public domain, and others garnered from research. Whereas your input on this thread seems to be based entirely around the past performance of UKli and other peoples research and publish articles.

As I said previously, your one liner sort of posts do nothing to eek out the truth surrounding this companyand it's operations, and indeed may have the opposite effect of what the thread is intended for.

I suggest we await a response from the company, failing which I'd be inclined to swerve very much toward your stance. As I'd imagine many others would also.

 

[pboyles]

I think what you are doing is desperately looking for someone to tell you this is a great opportunity. Do you for one minute believe that the guys behind the UKLI scam (and there is no doubt that was a scam) are now 'going straight' but just happened to choose exactly the same 'business' model?

What you are essentially doing is trying to prove that the nice Nigerian Prince that e mails you is in fact honest despite all the evidence to the contrary.

 

[oranjdeboom]

Indeed pboyles, I have always took people at face value and could be construed as somewhat gullible, hence the two foot thick tarmac on my drive covering the three layers of paving........ the shiny new roof on my house, the fourth one in 2 years, the fact I have in my possesion 15 winning dutch lottery tickets and 1million acres of mountainous land in Outer Mongolia. lol!

Take a look at this site from a local councillor in the area that SJ Capital have their land.

RITA EGAN Liberal Democrat: Development Land Around Houghton Regis

now a lot of what this lady conveys is confirmed in SJs sales pitch, if you also look at Land Improvements web site...........

Lands Improvement

you will see that the proposals for the area are indeed very well advanced but very much dependent on the A5 bypass around Dunstable.


This beggars the question as to why SJ Capital are going about things the way they are on this particular site.



Maybe, just maybe they dont know about the potential treasure at the bottom of the site???? check this out................ RITA EGAN Liberal Democrat


PMSL!

 

[pboyles]

Indeed pboyles, I have always took people at face value and could be construed as somewhat gullible, hence the two foot thick tarmac on my drive covering the three layers of paving........ the shiny new roof on my house, the fourth one in 2 years, the fact I have in my possesion 15 winning dutch lottery tickets and 1million acres of mountainous land in Outer Mongolia. lol!

Take a look at this site from a local councillor in the area that SJ Capital have their land.

RITA EGAN Liberal Democrat: Development Land Around Houghton Regis

now a lot of what this lady conveys is confirmed in SJs sales pitch, if you also look at Land Improvements web site...........

Lands Improvement

you will see that the proposals for the area are indeed very well advanced but very much dependent on the A5 bypass around Dunstable.


This beggars the question as to why SJ Capital are going about things the way they are on this particular site.



Maybe, just maybe they dont know about the potential treasure at the bottom of the site???? check this out................ RITA EGAN Liberal Democrat


PMSL!

In the UK you can call the council and ask to speak to the planning department. They will be able to tell you about the restrictions on the land you refer to. Remember just because one field has planning permission doesn't mean the one beside it will get it. You can also try to find a map for the Green Belt in that location

By the way what they are offering is a collective investment scheme, the should be FSA registered to do this but they are not. They are therefore committing a few offences. Like I said there is zero chance this a genuine opportunity.

 

[oranjdeboom]

I totally agree pboyles. In it's current form, the proposals entered in the sales material by SJ Capital have no chance whatsoever of gaining a planning consent, couple that with the fact that prospective buyers of the plots have been given no indication of the restrictions on the deeds and various other clauses, then yes it does appear to be quite peculiar, and indicative of a collective investment scheme being attempted.

However, this doesnt detract from the potential of the site if it is handled and promoted to the Local Authority in the way that I am led to believe it should have been.

I keep rattling the same question out, and that is WHY at this point in time ( bearing in mind SJ Capital have had control of the land for nigh on 4 years) have they decided upon a course of action that could end in their possible demise once and for all if proven to be illegal? Is it possible that the end game in the UK with regards these schemes is now upon them? is it possible that following arrests made in Dubai that the shop is now been forced to bring forward it's forced closure plans? is by chance that issues surrounding other sites and questions now being asked may have a bearing on proceedings? I don't know the answers, but I am inclined to continue searching for them if they are not forthcoming from the company.

 

[pboyles]

I totally agree pboyles. In it's current form, the proposals entered in the sales material by SJ Capital have no chance whatsoever of gaining a planning consent, couple that with the fact that prospective buyers of the plots have been given no indication of the restrictions on the deeds and various other clauses, then yes it does appear to be quite peculiar, and indicative of a collective investment scheme being attempted.

However, this doesnt detract from the potential of the site if it is handled and promoted to the Local Authority in the way that I am led to believe it should have been.

I keep rattling the same question out, and that is WHY at this point in time ( bearing in mind SJ Capital have had control of the land for nigh on 4 years) have they decided upon a course of action that could end in their possible demise once and for all if proven to be illegal? Is it possible that the end game in the UK with regards these schemes is now upon them? is it possible that following arrests made in Dubai that the shop is now been forced to bring forward it's forced closure plans? is by chance that issues surrounding other sites and questions now being asked may have a bearing on proceedings? I don't know the answers, but I am inclined to continue searching for them if they are not forthcoming from the company.

They could start again tomorrow under a different name, it costs £18 to register a UK limited company, they'd just rebrand their website and start again, just like they did when UKLI was caught.

I think you'll find that many planning restrictions are almost written in stone in
the UK. No matter what you propose to the council you'd get nowhere. Proximity to other developments is irrelevant, there is a line drawn on the map to mark the green belt and that's that.

Remember if there was any potential in this land you'd never have got to hear about it, it would have been bought and developed. The fact theyre cold calling people on the other side of the world to flog it in small pieces should tell you all you need to know.

 

[wackypete2]

I don't know the answers, but I am inclined to continue searching for them if they are not forthcoming from the company.

Why?
Does it not pose a big red flag when the company refuses to answer some basic questions that you ask? Must be some issue(s) they don't want to talk about. If you are not going to invest with them then what is your obsession with finding the truth about a company that is all of a sudden silent?

Let's try a different approach. We'll assume SJ Capital refused to acknowledge or answer your questions. You then go digging for and find some answers. Here are the possibilities:

1) You find all or mostly negative answers or possibly cannot find any information at all. This suggests a high probability that the members here are correct and SJ Capital is a scam company.

OR

2) You find all or mostly positive answers painting the company in a good light. I don't think you would then be confident in saying the company is not a scam even after they refused to answer the questions themselves? This just opens up more questions and you will continue down this road indefinitely.

If you can't get straightforward answers to basic questions from the company who is trying to get you (or anyone) to buy into their marketing, then that is all the information you need.

Just my opinion,

Peter

 

[anley]

However, this doesnt detract from the potential of the site if it is handled and promoted to the Local Authority in the way that I am led to believe it should have been.

And who's going to pay the costs of the promting? Promoting costs a lot of money these days and I mean A LOT. Noone ever mentions this (surprise) and companies like SJ Capital give the impression to their (naive) clients that it's just a matter of filling a couple of forms out and sending them into the council's planning department. Nothing could be further from the truth. The costs associated with putting a 5 acre site are in for planning are in the region of £250,000 - £500,000 and there's no guarantee if the money is paid it will get planning. A lot of money and a lot of time is needed, ask Brian Smith of SJ Capital, the one who used to work for UK Land Investments the biggest land banking scam of recent years. But on second thoughts, don't ask him, I doubt you'd get a thruthful reply knowing his past history.

PS. If you happen to speak with Wayne, ask him how he's worked out to do the impossible, along with EVERY other land banking company operating at the moment in the UK. That being, how he's worked out a way to get planning permission for the land he sells without a single dwelling being 'affordable'. Every site Barrats, Wimpey, Persimmon etc builds on has to have an afforable housing allocation so I'm sure they'd like to know SJ Capital's 'secret' as well.

 

[oranjdeboom]

Evening Gents, and there was me expecting a flurry of in depth answers to all my questions, alas the humdrum day job will be put on hold.

Totally agree wackypete2 a large red flag is starting to rise upon it's pole.

Anyway, having been presented with further information today I feel obligated to share with the thread. How about Brian Smiths resume for starters, not much different to his LinkedIn I hear you cry, but take a closer look at RD Planning & Land Consultants whom he undertook quite a few tasks for. Once you have absorbed this somewhat useless information try having a look at page 19 on the link I have provided and you will see that RD Planning & Land Consultants have a somewhat interesting link to UKLI , in which case the resume/c.v in my possesion actually contradicts Waynesas post on this and other threads regards Brian Smiths involvement with UKLI................................. the plot thickens!


http://www.southbucks.gov.uk/includ...d105_reg301e_statement_of_representations.pdf



Brian L Smith


A professional town planner with substantial experience in development.

After 6 years working in local authority planning departments ranging from Surrey County to Northavon District to Middlesbrough Borough I moved into the housebuilding industry. Of the 18 years I have worked for housebuilders’ 9 have been at Director level with Prowting, Laing and following the takeover George Wimpey. While at Laing I was part of the senior management team responsible for the sale to Wimpey, which comprised the Main Board and the MD’s from the subsidiary companies. I was also the spokesman on planning, demographics and sustainability, and represented them on the HBF National Planning Committee. As a member of the Department of Trade & Industry task force on sustainable transport futures I was involved in the production of a series of Foresight reports on the subject. As MD of George Wimpey Strategic Land I was focused on driving forward a modern strategy to ensure continued delivery from this important land source. This involved moving to concentrate on medium and shorter term sites where our planning expertise could be used to maximise values. For 2 years I ran a planning and land subsidiary within an investment / fund management group, but have now set up my own independent consultancy focusing on planning and preplanning project management for developers.














Qualifications


BA Honours Degree in Town Planning 1982
Member of the Royal Town Planning Institute 1985

Employment History

Managing Director, Brian Smith consultancy.
Establish new consultancy providing planning and land services primarily to the development and investment sectors.

Managing Director, RD Planning & Land Consultants.
Responsible for establishing and managing RD P&LC as a strategic land and planning team for the Group and external clients. Identification of potential sites, negotiate acquisition for other Group companies, promote planning and where appropriate dispose. Also represent clients with the media, papers, radio and television.

Managing Director, George Wimpey Strategic Land.
Responsible for setting the business plan and managing the strategic land company with national coverage, over 400 sites and producing around 1,600 plots per year together with direct project management of specific major schemes.

Strategic Land Director, Laing Homes.
Sole operational director running the strategic land
company. Responsible for managing a small team of planners/ land buyers and direct control of most significant sites.

Strategic Land Director, Prowting Homes.
Sole operational director running the strategic land
company. Responsible for managing a small team of planners/ land buyers and direct control of most significant sites.

Strategic Land Manager, Prowting Homes.
Site finding, acquisition and planning promotion. Also responsible for achieving planning on immediate sites where problems arose.

Planner, Charles Church Homes.
Site finding, acquisition and planning promotion. Also responsible for achieving planning on immediate sites where problems arose.

Planner, Reigate & Banstead Borough Council, Northavon
District Council, Middlesbrough Borough Council and
Surrey County Council.
Development control, local plans and development brief
preparation, site disposals.





'It is not the mountain ahead that wears you down, but the small stone in your shoe'

 

[Poem 101]

The trouble with all this is the red flag is the scheme itself. It needs no further investigation.

 

[oranjdeboom]

'It needs no further investigation' ?


But isnt the point of a thread like this to further the evidence against the scheme and indeed those behind it? , or would you prefer the thread to be lost in the archives ?

 

[Poem 101]

'It needs no further investigation' ?


But isnt the point of a thread like this to further the evidence against the scheme and indeed those behind it? , or would you prefer the thread to be lost in the archives ?

Dear Oranj,

I have received a very tempting offer from a former Nigerian general. He needs to use my bank account to park $20million for a few days, for which he will give me 10%.

Now, I am not stupid. I know that every single one of these schemes has been a scam. But I have no actual evidence against this particular General. Unless some is forthcoming, I am minded to ahead.

I am sure you will agree that this is a very good idea.

Yours sincerely,

A N Idiot

 

[anley]

Poem is right, all you need to know is they're selling small plots of land in the UK which are 'soon' to get planning permission. That is the hallmark of a land banker and NOT ONE of these plots will ever get planning for not one plot ever sold by all the land bankers combined has ever got planning.

Going back to SJ Capital, I wonder what spin they're putting out for their (poor) investors in the Greenhithe, Kent site. The investors were told the land would be sold this summer but something tells me they're all going to be very very disappointed. Give the investors another 18 -24 months, then they'll realise they've been sold worthless land. But then I don't expect SJ Capital to be around anymore.............

 

[pboyles]

'It needs no further investigation' ?


But isnt the point of a thread like this to further the evidence against the scheme and indeed those behind it? , or would you prefer the thread to be lost in the archives ?

I think the point people are making is that as soon as you mention land banking everyone knows its a scam. There is no honest land banking, just like there's no honest cold callers selling shares or indeed honest Nigerian Generals transferring money. I think by uncovering the various discrepancies all you may be doing is help them prepare better for their next scam.

By the way the information about Smith and UKLI was all here previously but was deleted by T2W.

 

[anley]

The timeline with SJ Capital's Greenhithe, Kent site is starting to be 'extended'. Who would have thought of that?

if you checked on their site at the beginning of the year, planning permission was supposed to be granted by now, and the land ready to be sold by the early summer.

Now, planning has been put back and the land will 'now' be ready for sale late summer.

Guys, here's a prediction you can take to the bank - come late summer NO PLANNING application will have been put to the council. Here's another prediction, this time next year NO planning application will be put to the council, and so on.

Meanwhile I bet SJ Capital's salesmen (who know nothing about planning, but everything about being slick and persistant) will no doubt be trying very hard to sell more plots of land to the (poor) people who've already been suckered into buying worthless plots.

SJ Capital Group - Strategic Land Investment

FOLKS, YOU'VE ALL BEEN WANRED - STAY AWAY FROM COMPANIES THAT TRY TO CONVINCE YOU TO BUY SMALL PLOTS OF LAND THAT ARE 'SOON' TO GET PLANNING PERMISSION. Unless you like to get stuffed up and made a fool of......