SB bias bites the dust?

Mmmmm! Assuming all concerned are using the latest software from CMC. Fairly fast computers. And are geographically not too far apart; all things being equal, there should be no discrepencies.

One theory could be that different geographical locations do have a part to play in this.
When I've been in the trading rooms. People have, as you say Riz, reported probs, then the next day a different group have reported problems.

Looking at the worst case explanation is that the sb's are blocking accounts on a rotational method and one should expect dificulties at some point, or simply it's a case of trading when everyone else is trying to place an order at the same time as the market moves.
Thousands of orders going over the 'net at the same time are going to hit a 'bottleneck' as they filter through, one order will be processed quicker than another order and the last orders will be requoted as the price has moved away from the intended trading price.

It would be interesting to find out how many orders are procesed per second by cmc, and whether someone trading in or near London where CMC are now located has a faster fill time then someone trading north of the border. ie, Watford.

Logically, there is a time differential surely. Perhaps a 'live' test one day in the trading rooms?

Also, the delay with mass orders going through can work in your favour; I've had stop orders get hit and carry on and not been actioned, then reverse and go in my favour where I've been able to then cancel the original stop order and put in another one. Leaving the original in place can lead to it being actioned at a later time when the price is nowhere near it. CMC will say that it took a while to get around to it. Removing it yourself and placing another one in the market at least gives you the benifit of having a 'timed' order in. ie, at 12.15 the market price was nowhere near the stop order. What it did 2 minutes before the order was placed is immaterial and the original stop order was cancelled and accepted so is no longer valid and ceases to exist.

There are ways around everything. One only has to look.

Options
 
Yes agree that there could be ways around some of the obstacles, thats why we need the exercises...

Problem is CMC have designed their software in a very cunning way and make sure every time it is updated it is further designed against the traders, take last software update for example, I think the main thing behind it was removing the few seconds confirmation time for traders not to speed it up, speeding up means more automated less requoted and we havent seen that yet, on the contrary especially on the dow almost every single trade for every single trader started to be held and requoted right after the update (that is of course unless you obviously trade against the current trend in that case I can assure you your trade will go through in less than a second), once you click the order you also cofirm at the same time, leaving the dealer on the other side in full control, they can hold it as long as they like before requoting you, thus leaving no way around it...

I dont think geographical closeness makes much of a difference, well at least despite trading in London I did not see a difference after they changed their location... what you say about "blocking accounts on a rotational method" or certain accounts worth to think about though...

While at it there are a couple other things about CMC software and the way it works that my imagination got stuck at, wonder if CMC could shed a light at them... that is of course if they bother to listen to their clients I remember a critical thread on advfn pbb was removed on their request by advfn administration openly reflecting how CMC would prefer to respond their clients' criticism, instead of replying them they just asked advfn to remove the thread, the only CMC department responding to the clients in a +ve manner is their technical department, they are always friendly and helpful, shame have to say the opposite for other departments of theirs, it is a good thing that we dont receive any advertisements from them :)

I also have to admit that a similar thread criticisizing FINS on the same website was responded by FINS agents in a positive manner and it is still running...

Now CMC call their software award winning and keep boasting about it... how come this super system updates open positions with a 15-20 minute delay and not straight away so their clients can check what open positions they have at any given time and thus avoid from opening/adding to positions by mistake?

How come CMC can transfer money into our accounts by switch card but not transfer it back to our current accounts in the same way? How come CMC is the only firm I know charging for both transferring money into (by switch card) and from (by telegraphic transfer, switch card not accepted in that case) our CMC accounts? Why can you deposit money online but you cannot transfer back online?

And one other question why are the open positions not in order of time so we know which started first and follow on?

Riz
 
Hi Options and all

Mmmmm! Assuming all concerned are using the latest software from CMC. Fairly fast computers. And are geographically not too far apart; all things being equal, there should be no discrepencies.
I'm using the latest CMC software on a broadband internet connection on a fast computer (in London), and it still seems to take (what seems like) an eternity to get filled.
verymad.gif


Thousands of orders going over the 'net at the same time are going to hit a 'bottleneck' as they filter through, one order will be processed quicker than another order and the last orders will be requoted as the price has moved away from the intended trading price.

If this theory was true, then surely limit orders would get filled quicker, as these are placed in the market earlier.

Also, the delay with mass orders going through can work in your favour; I've had stop orders get hit and carry on and not been actioned, then reverse and go in my favour where I've been able to then cancel the original stop order and put in another one. Leaving the original in place can lead to it being actioned at a later time when the price is nowhere near it.
That’s alright as long as the stop gets taken at the right point. In the last week I’ve seen the price go through my stop, and keep going, only to find they action the stop at a worse price, even though I’ve seen them quote the exact stop price after the price has gone through it.

I’m not complaining – well yes I am – but I have the option to choose a different broker or stick to CMC, so their not holding a gun to my head.
violent.gif
...and now I've had my little rant, I can get on with the important things in life - Making Money :D
 
Hehe; Good posts from both Riz and ftse. With some salient points in there. Anyone reading your post ftse would think I worked for CMC. (I wonder if they're gonna start paying me?)

Just trying to be logical that's all m8.

Totally agree Riz on the point of the switch money transfer.
If they can take it online, they can give it back online.

Any CMC people care to comment?

This is a fairly public board and to think that none of the spreadbetting people and others do not read these posts, would be taking naivety to the extreme.

Geograpical location must play a part in what we wrote about earlier. I mean if myself, being near London, and someone in Scotland hit the button at the same time, wouldn't my order get to it's destination first?

I know these computer airwaves travel at the speed of light, but speed of light takes a measurable certain amount of time. Or was my time in school even more wasted then I first imagined?

Very interesting point about the cmc software update Riz. I can see that this will work for some and against others. Often with the lag in dealing you could see a price move either in your favour our against and either take the trade or not as the case maybe and then get a requote if the trade went in your favour. Everyone knows fins have a much slower system and this has worked for me by stoping me taking the trade as I have seen it move against me. As an observation though. How many people are concentrating on the trading box and not keeping an eye on the price movement as soon as they click the button? Quite a few I'll wager.

The delay in trading at the price you see has been unaceptable for most cases and I for one welcome the new cmc software. But to work better it needs to be totally automated, and to avoid any unfair bias being built in needs to be policed properly by the fsa etc (fat chance). This would make a lot of dealers surplus to requirements, but hey, life's a ***** and then you die.


Those postings on advfn Riz? Were they slanderous or touched on libel issues at all m8? or simply down to cmc paying for advertising and hence had a bit of clout?

Open positions and order of time. One for the tech boys and girls I think. Common sense to put them in time order.

It is a pity that spokespeople for the sb's don't come on here and answer some questions. I think most people would welcome their comments. Some people at these companies are less then helpful when spoken to over the phone or via the net.

Ftse, my 'thousands of orders' sentance was an unsubstantial comment, appoligies for that. It is probably more like hundreds, but again it is just a guess.
CMC to clarify please.
But yes, limit orders should get filled quicker.

Having the price go through your stop and be actioned at a worse price. Yeah, I've had that happen as well m8. A call to the dealers reveals that the price the stop gets filled at can't be guaranteed. But hey! we read that before didn't we and we knew it may happen even if we didn't expect it to happen.

I have allowed that to only happen once though m8.

The answer?

Use a mental stop and take it before the price gets anywhere near your actual stop already placed in the market. Then cancel the other stop straight away.

To newer people reading this, always put a stop in place when you put a trade on. Even if it does get taken at a worse price it still offers some safeguard. To actually implement a mental stop at the pre ordained price can be very, very hard to do. Paralysis of the brain sets in and it can be a killer. Seasoned pros can still have trouble taking a mental stop.

The other side of the coin is that your stop is on view. The market makers will, by routine, take the market to, and past your stop just to take you out of the game, then allow it to go back the other way.

Skullduggerry abounds in these waters and makes people do evil things.

I used to think that we had a fair and level playing field. Ha ha, was I wrong all those years ago.

Trade well.

Options
 
Excellent post, Riz!

Somebody said “you can take horses to the water but you can’t make them drink it”.

The can be applied to the people: you can paint the truth with the most beautiful colours but they only see what they want to see.

SBs are bad for me? – oh dear never mind!

There is no shame in “not knowing”, shame is in “not wanting to know”.
 
Hi all.

You've given me the inspiration to write to CMC and find out what's happening with fill's etc. Here's the E-mail:

Hi

I hope you can help. I've got a number of questions regrading your software and trading system.

How many trades go through every second or minute, and is this the reason for poor fill times and requotes?
Why does it take so long for a stop to get filled - when it's an automated system? (i've had a stop triggered and not confirmed for 20 minutes before).
Why is there no facility to take money out of the account online?

Any help to the above questions would be most appricated.

I'll let you know there response.
 
Rizz,

We have had this discussion many times in private however for anyone else interested, I frimly believe that the people at the other end of your trade are inadequate in some physically private area as I have found that to achieve very fast executions, very little requotes, and stops that dont get rejected every five seconds, you have to tell them, on a regular basis how good they are, what fantastic software they have and complain only rarely of any unfair actions made against you during the normal trading day. I am fortunate at this time to be having a good service from cmc as I have stopped the daily moans down the phone and the frustrated chat messages you can send to the elusive trader who never answers.

However, my lips are bleeding from everytime I have to bite them, my walls are peppered from objects thrown against them in frustration, my wife barely talks to me cos I bite anyones head off that enters my study and my kids think I have psychotic tendencies that show themselves whenever I place a trade.

SB can only be a town that you pass through to get to the final destination. It is a useful vehicle to get you on the path to trading professionally, but if you stay in the twilight zone for too long you will be lost forever.................

On a serious note, it is a Mickey Mouse form of trading that has you at a great disadvantage from the start. The best markets to trade are in the US (anyone trying to trade UK stocks at the moment would verify that), and sb has ridiculously wide spreads for trading anything US. For playing around it is great, for tax reasons it is great (unless you lose more than you win) anything else it is %?*%?.
 
lol splurge :) the other side nicely put...

Seen cmc new e-mail?

"Trading hours for sectors will also be changing as from Monday August 12th.
The new hours are as follows:-

UK 08.15 - 16.30 London time
Australia 23.15 - 05.00 GMT
US 14.45 - 21.00 London time"

Looks they wont let people trade first 15 minutes...they are going through everything, anything that may possibly be working in traders' favour gets changed...

That's cmc, dont think Fins doing nothing, they also too busy increasing delayed quotes and decreasing confirmation time, so short that you dont have enough time to click buy/sell...

Riz
 
Going Downhill fast

Isn't it funny that all the good things about using sb when u first start up are slowly but surely being phased out especially by cmc....

1. I remember the claim that 90% of trades were carried out within 7 secs when I first joined - now they claim up to 1 min.
2. Spreads that match the market. Hmm I can certainly think of a few where they now have a little fat at each end. AZN a prime case
3. Stops that can be placed a spreads width outside the price. Well again that bit the dust as soon as you trade over £5 / point
4. Spreads that get changed if there is too much volatility (dow 4 points to 8)
5. .....and now the possibility of the IR hit those people who trade for a living using sb.

I will be moving to cfds very soon permanently, trouble is the same bad bunch run that game as well.

Any recommendations anyone :D
 
A mass boycot seems pretty good right now. They don't listen on a one person basis.
If the IR start taxing people, there is no benefit in staying with the sb's. Unless they tighten the spreads and make things more transparent.

I just use the sb's for some pocket money in any case, The real stuff is done now with IB.
I know they do the LSE although I don't use that part of them. But I should imagine you get a better deal and the last time I looked, it was only £4 per month for the feed.

I would rather pay tax on better profits, then keep giving more and more away to the sb's. They're just taking all the fun out of it.

They don't answer e mails and the fsa don't want to know.

Options.
 
Seems like these dimwits have stolen the first 15 minutes for themselves (often the most profitable time of the day); only a mental retard should attempt to SB on an intraday basis, the odds are stacked against you. And even swingtrading with SB is messed up, if you can't get in a profitable opening order. Screw CMC and the others. SB'ing is dead as a profitable concept (in fact, it was never really alive).
 
alternatives to CFD's and Spread Betting.

trade Eurostoxx50 with Easy2Trade:

here is an email reply from someone in response to a similar question such as that posed by yourself;

"Toby,

E2T charge £4 in and £4 out the margins on Eurostox 50 is £1,200 I believe

they have just started a new day trader margin for dax..for £7,900 you can trade 2 dax contracts ..it used to be 9k for 1 so this seems a good deal.
But don't forget IB only want $3,500 for a contract so for 2 that is $7k or around £4,600.

the big advantage for using E2T is that they will answer the phone within a couple of rings and close out your positions if need be.

I will stay with IB until I see what they are like live..and take it from there

Estox50 is 10 Euros per point per point btw so its a nice safe contract to trade."

and another reply on same subject matter(Easy2Trade):

"

yep still £4 in £4 out, but you can get em on the phone sharpish if your connection goes tits up, as you know

I too would be a bit jittery regards IB, after making my first Million, maybe less so [wink]

Right, stoxx 50 is 10 euro's a point

exchange same as for the Dax...... Eurex level !

Dax is the one if you know what your doing, but I'm still learnig, so I'm on the stoxx 50"

The above is not an attack on Interactive Brokers - all brokers have good and bad points - what suits you is a personal choice and would suggest you do your own research.

The point of the above is that big margin deposits are not needed to start trading. Ok - you pay tax but I spent yesterday papertrading the Dax with someone using Interactive Brokers. One minute charts easily scalped 4 points or more profit buying or selling on the bid/ask.

Will a 4 point move spread betting give a profit?

Hopefully others will add to the above few thoughts but I think the above re the Eurostoxx should be food for thought among spread betting victims.

Toby
 
Neil

Easy2Trade have a demo system. I know because I've used it. Ask them for a day and it's free, but if you'd like another just ask, I did and got another free day on there. Very useful
 
Why trade Eurostoxx50?

Trade S&P E-Mini's with www.interactivebrokers.co.uk for $2.40 per side. Fills are fast, slippage virtually unheard of and spreads are 0.25pts.

The E-Mini's are leveraged at $50 per point (equivalent to around $5 per point on the Dow or £3). Initial margin is around $1900 i believe.

The IB platform gives direct access to the market including Market Depth and allows you to interface for orders via Software apps such as Excel, VB and Visuall C++

Greeeeet IMHO

JonnyT
 
Johnny T

Thanks JT albeit I am well aware of IB and emini's.

Eurostoxx allows me to get my feet wet in Futures at some ten euros a point, liquidity is good.

The Dax has a similar advantage at some £17 per point.
Needless to say, once I have confidence then the emini is next on the list.

And thankyou for your comment.
 
As soon as sierra charts complete their link up with IB, that's what I'll be doing in the afternoons.
Don't think the free one at Lycos is quite up to the job.

I've heard that the eurostox is much the same regards tightness and not being jerked around as much as say the ftse future.

Good solution: Do the euros in the morning and the e mini in the afternoon.

Pity IB don't do eurostox. Unless anyone knows different?

Johnny T what exchange is it for the mini please?

Options.
 
And here's a reply this morning from cmc regarding the new trading hours.



Subj: Re: trading times
Date: 08/08/2002 11:08:53 GMT Daylight Time
From: [email protected]





Dear Sir,

In response to your question concerning Sectors, the reason why we dont quote any Sectors in the first 15 minutes of trading is that often it takes that amount of time before all stocks trade in the sector. If a stock hasnt traded or a stock price is crossed this will have the effect of corrupting the Sector price. We find it is far more realistic to wait for that time period to pass then we can quote a correct price to trade on.
We tradethe FTSE from 7am monday morning until 9pm friday - this product is quoted 24 hrs a day

Regards

Spreadbet Desk


To: [email protected]

Date: 08/06/2002 08:01AM
Subject: trading times

Why the delay in trading for sectors. Now starting at 8.15.?
and can I trade the ftse futures from 7.00?

Regards
---


Options
 
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