Psychology... the poll
- Thread starter shadowninja
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Fear, but pushed to one side, with stops, because I try to figure out where everyone else will put most of them. That is, certainly, not the spot to put one's own! So it must be in , what is potentially, a dangerous place. No sense in putting it closer, for obvious reasons, so it must be farther away. Where fear starts to overcome, then it is best to not to enter that trade, I suppose. Nevertheless, these stops are taken out so rapidly that if there is a reversal, your misery will soon be over, one way or the other. Hopefully, the price will bounce away from you.
I believe that fear is an emotion that should not be ignored. It is a good indicator of what you think of that trade, which can be reduced by reducing the size.
Lots do not agree with me. They believe that all these emotions should be eliminated but I believe in using whatever gifts God has given me.
Split
Fear, but pushed to one side, with stops, because I try to figure out where everyone else will put most of them. That is, certainly, not the spot to put one's own! So it must be in , what is potentially, a dangerous place. No sense in putting it closer, for obvious reasons, so it must be farther away. Where fear starts to overcome, then it is best to not to enter that trade, I suppose. Nevertheless, these stops are taken out so rapidly that if there is a reversal, your misery will soon be over, one way or the other. Hopefully, the price will bounce away from you.
I believe that fear is an emotion that should not be ignored. It is a good indicator of what you think of that trade, which can be reduced by reducing the size.
Lots do not agree with me, They believe that all these emotions should be eliminated but I believe in using whatever gifts God has given me.
Split
This, BTW, is not a method that I have always used. I used to prefer close stops but recent writings on these boards have persuaded me to put them farther away. So, yes, I have to contend more with fear.
Split
Split, once your stop order has been placed, is there still 'fear'?
If I put my stop further away than all the others, I know that the odd spike could take me out, as well. I've got enough in the account to take care of any losses and keep on trading, but I am pleased when the market has taken its decision and I have a better idea of whether I am going to make a profit, or not. Perhaps, fear is too strong a word but some emotion is there and the longer the time that the market does take, then the worse the feeling gets.
The best is when the price moves away from your stop, at once. I'm getting better at that but I am, still, not an expert .
Am going out for a few hours, BTW, so excuse any gaps in posts.
Split
So fear is an emotion that has strong links to a traders ability to correctly 'read' the market?
No, fear, is an emotion that calls for prudence when reading the market. Anyone who fearlessly trades is like someone on a bike, as long as he doesn't go too fast he's ok. But what if he finds himself on a bend, going downhill, and it's raining? Having been in a situation like that I know that it is too late for fear, but I am not playing a waiting game on a bike. In front of a computer, looking at a chart, I am. I have time to think and fear the consequences if things go wrong. Any false move, and I can reconsider my actions and cut the trade, getting out too early but, the longer I stay in, the more my feelings need to be kept under control. The closer I get to my stop, which is further away than the rest and which may have already gone, the more edgy I become. The best is to shut the computer down for the day and say sod it but, if you do that, you will not re-enter, after being closed out. Then the whole thinking of the operation is for nothing.
Db said that he felt sorry for me for sensing fear! I don't feel sorry for myself, particularly. I've been trading for thirty odd years and know how to live with it. The story is that Nelson threw up every time he went into battle and they have put a monument up to him.
I tell you, I enjoy doing this for a few hours every day. It keeps the mind active but I, also, think that short term trading has a strong random element in it that is unpredictable, because news is unpredictable. News affects the markets, always.
Split
dbphoenix
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Not exactly. I said "If you're still fearful after 40 years of trading, that's unfortunate". I might feel sorry for someone who's account was wiped out due to a clerical error, but that's not quite the same thing.
new_trader
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I wouldn't say that 'trading psychology' is inherent within my method, or in any method for that matter. Trading psychology, or the lack of it, is inherent in the individuals who aspire to become successful traders. The easy route, which is the one most often taken by aspirants, does not nurture the development of the correct mindset and skill required to trade successfully. Most people prefer to avoid the nasty and uncomfortable emotions associated with trading, most of them being the result of having to make a decision or dealing with a decision already made. I wonder if people take comfort in ‘mechanical’ systems because they transfer the responsibility of these decisions over to a piece of software...
dbphoenix
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Paul, you're asking some awfully good questions, but I can't give you any more points because of t2w's system. Anybody need 74 points? If so, post here:
http://www.trade2win.com/boards/t2w-feedback/30061-about-reputation-system-aka-pimp-my-pips.html
http://www.trade2win.com/boards/t2w-feedback/30061-about-reputation-system-aka-pimp-my-pips.html
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dbphoenix
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Sure. Just do a search for "doesn't work".
Somehow, I knew that you would come back to me on that one! Point taken, you said unfortunate. But I can live with it, otherwise I would not trade.
Split
No, fear, is an emotion that calls for prudence when reading the market. Anyone who fearlessly trades is like someone on a bike, as long as he doesn't go too fast he's ok. But what if he finds himself on a bend, going downhill, and it's raining? Having been in a situation like that I know that it is too late for fear, but I am not playing a waiting game on a bike. In front of a computer, looking at a chart, I am. I have time to think and fear the consequences if things go wrong. Any false move, and I can reconsider my actions and cut the trade, getting out too early but, the longer I stay in, the more my feelings need to be kept under control. The closer I get to my stop, which is further away than the rest and which may have already gone, the more edgy I become. The best is to shut the computer down for the day and say sod it but, if you do that, you will not re-enter, after being closed out. Then the whole thinking of the operation is for nothing.
Db said that he felt sorry for me for sensing fear! I don't feel sorry for myself, particularly. I've been trading for thirty odd years and know how to live with it. The story is that Nelson threw up every time he went into battle and they have put a monument up to him.
I tell you, I enjoy doing this for a few hours every day. It keeps the mind active but I, also, think that short term trading has a strong random element in it that is unpredictable, because news is unpredictable. News affects the markets, always.
Split
I think somebody else said, maybe fear is the wrong word in this context. Surely you are not trading with fear after all these years, SL.
Or they put their heads in the sand, switch off with a stop on and walk away for a while.
I prefer to try to take some points on a daily basis and close. I am a screen watcher, no getting away from it so, for me, its better to close the trade.
Maybe, one day, I might trade indices overnight but it will have to be soon, cos I ain't getting any younger!
firewalker99
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I believe that fear is an emotion that should not be ignored. It is a good indicator of what you think of that trade, which can be reduced by reducing the size.
Lots do not agree with me. They believe that all these emotions should be eliminated but I believe in using whatever gifts God has given me.
Split
I can understand that if you risk more than you'd normally do on any single trade, you start to get emotional. But then the act of increasing your size is usually a consequence of a couple of losing trades, which encourages revenge trading. So already emotions have come into play.
What's easier? Trying to control your emotions than trying to eliminate them? Unless you're totally apathic to what happens to your account, I'm sure all of us DO care about our trades.
Let's suppose you've set your maximum threshold at 3 losing trades a day. After that you quit. What is easier to do? To keep observing the markets and control your emotions by staying flat (sitting on your hands if you must) or just walking away? All those traders who are feeling disgruntled about their losses but walk away, might not do so the next time. They haven't learnt anything by doing so, they are just trying to ignore it. But next time around, they might pull the trigger on a 4th trade anyway.
The trader who manages to control his emotions and observe the market from a neutral point of view without trading anymore for the rest of the day, will have learnt something useful. After time, he will have experienced how it feels to master his emotions.
Last night, I was walking to the metro with a staff member and, on crossing the road to the entrance, we found ourselves sharing the green pedestrian's light with a raving drunk. He was having a great time cursing the stopped car drivers and accusing them of all sorts of malpractices and we kept as far away from him as possible. Unfortunately, we were not quick enough to get ahead of him and he made it to the metro steps first, where he proceeded to berate all the men coming up the steps and, leeringly, admire all the women. He had all the centre of the steps to himself and the upcomers went up, in single file, against the two sides. One or two, like ourselves, going down, decided to hang back until he got himself involved with a staff member, when we all rushed for the ticket machines in quick order, hoping that he would catch the train after us.
Now, should I have not taken any notice of my fear factor, which had a lot to do with the fact that he was forty years younger than me., or should I have gone up to him and said "Stop molesting all these people, you drunken bum"?.
Caution is the better part of valour and my fear factor advised caution!
Now, should I have not taken any notice of my fear factor, which had a lot to do with the fact that he was forty years younger than me., or should I have gone up to him and said "Stop molesting all these people, you drunken bum"?.
Caution is the better part of valour and my fear factor advised caution!
