Prop Firms/Individuals trying to rip me off?

[LondonJimmy]

So many prop firms seem so keen on selling you a ‘trading course’ where the cost is pretty high (around 3k). Is it all just a con? I realise that at a prop firm you are risking their own capital, but there are plenty of stages to get through before that happens. Plenty of firms want you to put up your own money before that happens.

I am also getting messages from people on Facebook, due to the trader/investing groups I am in. They claim to be a successful trader and want to sell me their ‘seminar’ where they tell you how to get your foot in the door. I am sceptical here too because why would a successful trader give a damn about me or want to hold a seminar for a few quid?

Do the two questions have different answers? Or is it all just a con? Whenever there is money involved I am shrewd enough to know people would stamp on your head to earn a few quid. I guess there are plenty of naive people in the world.

 

[wackypete2]

I’ll tackle the prop firm part of your problem.
Unfortunately there are so many cons out there that they give all prop firms a bad name. There are a few reputable ones. Any firm that will let you leverage their money with no money of yours up front will want you to take some kind of course or else have a proven audited track record. Makes sense, they aren’t in the business of giving away their money to some Joe Losertrader. The course fee cushions them on the downside in case you are losing their money and the course itself insures you at least know how they would like you to trade their money.

There are other prop firms that will take upfront money, usually a $5000 minimum, and no required courses. You still use their leverage, but it’s your deposit money to lose.

Here’s a few tips on evaluating a prop firm, but by no means is this inclusive:
1. Make sure you understand what ALL the fees and commissions are.
2. What are the withdraw requirements. Some firms allow only certain day(s) of the month.
3. Do you need any kind of license and if so will they help you get it

Check out this link for some more information:

http://www.tradersnarrative.com/list-of-proprietary-trading-firms-735.html

Peter

 

[LondonJimmy]

Hi WackyPete,

Thank you for your reply.

I might just deposit some money at home and try to learn the ropes there. I am new to trading so it will be a long road. However, I have made some good money investing adopting a buy-and-hold strategy. I guess I like investing using solid fundamentals. I do not really like technical analysis which a lot of the firms seem keen on selling you.

Maybe if I can make money at home (even if it is small) prop firms will like that as I will have a profitable pnl, especially if I am not using a fast trading platform. The hard part is making money I guess.

Will remember your points, very informative.

Cheers,

Jim

 

[state]

i would never believe/trust a random trader who has contacted you through facebook. scammers heaven that is.

in regards to prop houses charging, some do and some dont. if i was in your shos i'd try and hunt out the ones that dont charge anything and apply to them.

im personally sceptical of the houses that charge a course fee. but i think its due to their business model suffering recently that they have been forced down this road. a few years ago none of the houses charged and some even paid a healthy salary to brand new traders.

if you're unsure then try to go down to their office and check out the operation with your own eyes. it'll give you a feel for how solid they are.

 

[trader_dante]

Hi WackyPete,

Thank you for your reply.

I might just deposit some money at home and try to learn the ropes there. I am new to trading so it will be a long road. However, I have made some good money investing adopting a buy-and-hold strategy. I guess I like investing using solid fundamentals. I do not really like technical analysis which a lot of the firms seem keen on selling you.

Maybe if I can make money at home (even if it is small) prop firms will like that as I will have a profitable pnl, especially if I am not using a fast trading platform. The hard part is making money I guess.

Will remember your points, very informative.

Cheers,

Jim

1. You'll never use a "buy and hold" strategy in prop so don't do any of these trades in the account you are using to build a record.

2. If you want to know exactly what you will be taught, join this: http://www.trade2win.com/boards/trade-living/ It will save you thousands of pounds.

3. If you build a record, you will definetly get a job in prop without needing to put money down. And I can help you do this if you PM me when you have it.

4. If you want to build a record, try reading this: http://www.trade2win.com/boards/first-steps/26947-making-money-trading.html - it's almost three years old and I don't trade the way I have outlined here but it still works and you will be able to grow an account enough to get in a firm and even trade for a living if you so desire. I know because as you will read in the thread, I did it. And I've seen others do it since.

5. Er...good luck!

 

[LondonJimmy]

Thanks for the reply guys.

trader_dante will let you know if/when I become profitable. I will also check out those links you sent me...it appears that I can't access the first one though....

Thanks for all of the help.

 

[Parky]

Do not pay for training, most of the "quality" trading rooms shut down their trainee trader programs because they just didn’t work. However others simply went down this road of offering to sell trainee trader programs and worse still some now try to convince you this can be done remotely.
The best way into the markets is via the established brokers, Banks, trading rooms on a salaried roll and when you have the training and have the confidence and experience then go out and take a place at a trading room where you keep the bulk of your profits, preferably at a house that will allow you to work towards being fully funded and keep 100% of your profits.
As I am sure many have found being a "successful" applicant from one of these schemes is a sure fire way to be excluded from most trading rooms, the theory goes like this, the outfit training you will retain the most successful traders, those that scrape a profit or break even are by definition failures. Go to any trading room with a certificate or pass from one of these trainee trader schemes and you will be asked "why didn’t they take you on?" and quickly shown the door.

 

[billyo]

Parky,

I have had a few interviews and a lot of being ignored in trying to get in anywhere. Are you advocating taking a course with one of the prop houses and then hoping this will get you in if you make money. Everybody wants the job with the salary but everywhere I go I get asked for a training fee or get offered a self-employed contract.

Am I being thick or do they just want someone else.

Disillusioned

 

[arabianights]

Don't take a course. Full stop.

To my shame I took on two graduate trainees, huge waste of six months of all of our lives. Reckon it cost me at least 50k in stupid trades I made, at least that again in trades I missed, ****ed up a really enjoyable atmosphere in the office, and meanwhile they made **** all.

And no, they weren't being charged. They were being allowed a draw which I was part financing.

From this I conclude that no one who can trade will teach a grad course twice

Edit: And the guy who taught me feels the same way

 

[Parky]

Trading "arcades" are for professional traders, that is to say people who make a living from their trading. None that I am aware of pay salaries because by definition if you cannot make a living from your trading then why would anyone want to pay you to trade? For this reason all the traders arcades take on are self employed.
I am not advocating paying any money for trading courses, the odds are stacked against you being retained for this reasons most of the reputable arcades have long since dispensed with trainee trading programs.
The rule of thumb is this, is the company offering you training FSA regulated?
No you do not need to be FSA registered from prop trading but it is a sign of quality that any decent company will want anyway and some exchanges insist you are regulated just to be a member.

 

[arabianights]

Not to mention I think that your money can only be segregated if it's an FSA regulated entity, and ideally you want to be trading at a clearer as well, who I assume have to be FSA regulated.

Does mean you have to do a bit more boring paperwork though!

 

[dominationFX]

I am in Hoxton, N1 for all the fellow London traders out there. I have done a few FX and generic trading courses. Nobody is going to employ me as a Trainee without a proven track record in FX and I accept that. Trading for me is a PT hobby from which I hope to get a quite good tax-free income, for the rest of my life. It would be nice to at least network with pro traders in the City, Mayfair and Canary Wharf areas, though. These trading boys work looong hours though. I trade in my spare time, they havent got any. Trading is not my life.