Picking the RIGHT software

[Pat494]

All too often people are completely flummoxed ( me included ) by the plethora of software on offer. All the hype doesn't help much either.
Can one trust the comments made by others or maybe its the vendor secretly ramping his own product ?
How does one find a way through the maze without buying and then dumping if no good ?

 

[c6ackp]

Pat,

Tell us what you are looking for. Charting, analysis, execution software, signals, black-box trading system, etc.?

I guess you are looking for a black-box trading system? If so, I believe that www.futurestruth.com is a genuine attempt to independently evaluate trading systems.

HTH
c6

 

[wasp]

All too often people are completely flummoxed ( me included ) by the plethora of software on offer. All the hype doesn't help much either.
Can one trust the comments made by others or maybe its the vendor secretly ramping his own product ?
How does one find a way through the maze without buying and then dumping if no good ?

Hi Pat,

I think it can be a difficult and daunting proocess for a newbie especially, but like anything in life when searching, be it a new bank, a car or a house, there will always be the neccessaty to research and experience trial and error through experience. There is no, IMO, easy straightforward answer to anything in life, especially trading, as that would be too simple.

Slightly in line with the recent ongoing debate re: vendors and imparitial honest advice/posts, due diligance in anything, is vital. I wouldn't do or buy anything based on one persons suggestion alone or a big glaring advert, and anyone who does (be it a trading course or software) deserves all they get. A fool and his money are easily parted or should not have got together in the first place, but I am leaning towards a subject I wish not to get involved in.

From experience alone, when I was looking for a new broker, I went through an array of steps in order to decide and they were to: run a couple of polls on the forums and listen to the posts also. I also spoke to members whom I, to the best of my knowledge through reading their previous posts, were most qualified and impartial to give the best advice. After which, I trawled the net and checked out other forums and found all I could on said broker, then, spoke intensively to the brokers themselves before opening an account. Now I have, I am still running the account with an open mind till I am satisfied and only then will I put my hard earned money into it.

Its a long drawn out process and hard work but, if there was a three step simple guide to achieving perfection in everything, it wouldn't be any good. As Socrates has said recently, the markets aren't a kindergarten and nothing is laid out on a silver platter.

Research and due diligance is required and I don't think a couple of posts on here can say yay or nay on anything, further work and analysis is required to decifer if what you are about to purchase is going to be best for you. Even then, like your next trade, nothing is guaranteed so always be careful.

Just my opinion

 

[Pat494]

Thx c6ackp. My problem is that I am probably trying to find a profitable day trading system on the cheap. I.E. not paying Futurestruth $200 to have their opinion ( maybe they haven't sold out to some rich software vendor - that's how cynical I'm getting!)
Thx Wasp sensible advice
I thought I might tackle this prickly problem by putting an offer to the vendor; which goes something like this - I will do an unbiased 2 month daily journal on the prestigious T2W website of 60,000+ members using your system and mentioning your name as the vendor if you give me the software to do it with ( after understanding your system with your help )
How do think this will go down ???
I will post how I get on - censored probably LOL

 

[SOCRATES]

Thx c6ackp. My problem is that I am probably trying to find a profitable day trading system on the cheap. I.E. not paying Futurestruth $200 to have their opinion ( maybe they haven't sold out to some rich software vendor - that's how cynical I'm getting!)
Thx Wasp sensible advice
I thought I might tackle this prickly problem by putting an offer to the vendor; which goes something like this - I will do an unbiased 2 month daily journal on the prestigious T2W website of 60,000+ members using your system and mentioning your name as the vendor if you give me the software to do it with ( after understanding your system with your help )
How do think this will go down ???
I will post how I get on - censored probably LOL

..... ......

 

[Pat494]

Letter to Vendor ?

Dear Sirs,
I am interested in finding and then using good trading software for the financial markets. There are so many companies offering their software these days that it is difficult to make an informed choice. The obvious course of buying and testing lots of software is an extremely expensive option. I think I can offer a better solution.
As a long standing member of the 2 most prestigious Financial websites, both having an excess of 60,000 members I would be prepared to download and use your software and with your help keep a daily journal on these sites for 2 months, thus giving you a HUGE amount of publicity.
However if you feel that this is too much of a challenge etc. for you or your software please e-mail me back and I will publish your letter on the current thread. If I haven't heard from you by this time next week I shall assume you or your software are unable to compete !
Thank you

I welcome comments and any suggestions before sending an e-mail like the above to a likely vendor. Hopefully someone else may wish to join in and get a free piece of software for their trouble ?? ( assuming any vendor will rise to the challenge !

 

[SOCRATES]

Dear Sirs,
I am interested in finding and then using good trading software for the financial markets. There are so many companies offering their software these days that it is difficult to make an informed choice. The obvious course of buying and testing lots of software is an extremely expensive option. I think I can offer a better solution.
As a long standing member of the 2 most prestigious Financial websites, both having an excess of 60,000 members I would be prepared to download and use your software and with your help keep a daily journal on these sites for 2 months, thus giving you a HUGE amount of publicity.
However if you feel that this is too much of a challenge etc. for you or your software please e-mail me back and I will publish your letter on the current thread.
Thank you

I welcome comments and any suggestions before sending an e-mail like the above to a likely vendor. Hopefully someone else may wish to join in and get a free piece of software for their trouble ?? ( assuming any vendor will rise to the challenge !

....... ......

 

[andycan]

Why are you looking to test a system? and not try and create your own
am i missing the point here (seem to be doing that a lot lately)

 

[damianoakley]

Hi Pat494,

As regards your "Letter To The Vendor" and your software search in general.

I may have this wrong, but you seem to be searching for software that will do most of the work for you by churning out trading signals that you can just follow each day. Please don't fly off the handle at me - but that's the way it seems. You seem to be challenging software vendors to meet your trading needs and that seems a little unfair. The software sellers could have excellent software that gives great trading signals, but if you trade those signals in the wrong way then the trades won't work out and you'll blame the software when it could be your fault. Like I say, please don't fly off the handle at me - I may have read your situation wrong.

Many traders have come to me in the past telling me how bad certain software was. Upon closer inspection, I found that the software they were using was actually quite good, it's just that they were managing their trades all wrong. The software was great at highlighting potential entry points, but there is much more to managing a trade than just entry.

The thing that most people seem to misunderstand is that software is just a trading tool - great software will not necessarily result in great trades.


Thanks

Damian

 

[Charlton]

Hi Pat494,

As regards your "Letter To The Vendor" and your software search in general.

I may have this wrong, but you seem to be searching for software that will do most of the work for you by churning out trading signals that you can just follow each day. Please don't fly off the handle at me - but that's the way it seems. You seem to be challenging software vendors to meet your trading needs and that seems a little unfair. The software sellers could have excellent software that gives great trading signals, but if you trade those signals in the wrong way then the trades won't work out and you'll blame the software when it could be your fault. Like I say, please don't fly off the handle at me - I may have read your situation wrong.

Many traders have come to me in the past telling me how bad certain software was. Upon closer inspection, I found that the software they were using was actually quite good, it's just that they were managing their trades all wrong. The software was great at highlighting potential entry points, but there is much more to managing a trade than just entry.

The thing that most people seem to misunderstand is that software is just a trading tool - great software will not necessarily result in great trades.


Thanks

Damian

Quite so

There is a phrase "bad workmen blame their tools". As I have just pointed out on another thread, taking responsibility is important.

Charlton

 

[Pat494]

Glad to see an opinion from a vendor Damian. No flying off the handle etc. I assure you. But I see no reason not to call a spade a spade or spare tender feelings.
Surely competition amongst sellers of software is a good thing and the better examples will have the opportunity right here on T2W ( assuming I don’t get chucked off for causing a ripple amongst the vendors ) to display their wares actually working. If they feel that the tester with their help is not giving their product a fair test then there is nothing to stop them from saying so and showing it off themselves !
Yes, I and probably many others would like to own and use software that will fill up our bank balances. I see nothing wrong in that. We may pop some bubbles of false claim, hype etc. on the way but I see nothing wrong with that either.
Alas my programming skills are not really up to much Andycan so I am willing to pay out hard earned money for assistance from others. Lets face it its either that or giving up, and quitting too easily isn’t an option in my book. Software vendors are welcome to my cash as long as its value for money and that is what I mean to find out. I expect some vendors will be unwilling to accept the challenge and it will be noted as such.
Lets make the fur fly gents/ladies,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

 

[damianoakley]

Hi Pat,

I think that it all depends on what type of software you are looking for, because there are good and bad vendors of any product in any marketplace.

With trading software, you could purchase a wide range of products, from your basic charting software right up to your full-blown Tradestation that does everything under the sun and even places trades without you being there.

You may find that many software vendors are just selling a charting package. That charting package might be an excellent piece of kit with fantastic charts and indicators, but unless you know what you're doing, it won't on its own grow your bank balance. Does that mean it's a poor piece of software? - no - it means that it's aimed at traders who already have a trading system and just want a slick charting program. A software vendor like that probably wouldn't take up your challenge because they would question how you would rate their software. You would probably not rate the software very highly because it doesn't suit your needs - you are looking for software that provides you with trading signals, not just a slick charting program. Does that mean that the vendor should get a black mark for not rising to your challenge? I don't think so - the vendor in this situation has recognised that their software is not for you, so they wouldn't provide you with the free trial. And if they did, then how would you measure how good it was anyway if it's just a good charting program?

I find one of your sentences above very interesting - "I would like to own software that will fill up our bank balances and I see nothing with that". No software is going to fill up your bank balance. To do that you need to become a good trader first.

I or another trader on this board could give you a trading signal every day together with a chart showing you where to enter the market. Would you know how to trade these signals? Would you know how to manage the trade once you'd entered the position? If not, then how will your situation be any different when you have a piece of software giving you signals?

I suspect that many software vendors will not take up your challenge. For some it will be because they genuinely are crap and can't stand up to a decent test, but for many it will be because their software is just a tool and not meant to be followed like a holy grail system.

I should make it clear after all this that I am NOT a software vendor! It's just that relying on software to do the work for you is a very common problem. People seem to see software as a replacement for the need to learn trading skills.


Good Luck

Damian

 

[timsk]

My problem is that I am probably trying to find a profitable day trading system on the cheap.

Pat,
I agree with Damian and with SOCRATES who was, I suspect, smiling at the comment quoted. If there was a vendor out there who could provide a profitable system that was cheap and anyone could utilise, then we'd all be living the life of Riley. The mass outpouring of angst witnessed daily on these boards would evaporate overnight, along with the need for sites like T2W.

I fear you are 'Grail Hunting', which is likely to be more time consuming, expensive and frustrating than following andycan's suggestion and developing your own system.
Tim.

 

[andycan]

Glad to see an opinion from a vendor Damian. No flying off the handle etc. I assure you. But I see no reason not to call a spade a spade or spare tender feelings.
Surely competition amongst sellers of software is a good thing and the better examples will have the opportunity right here on T2W ( assuming I don’t get chucked off for causing a ripple amongst the vendors ) to display their wares actually working. If they feel that the tester with their help is not giving their product a fair test then there is nothing to stop them from saying so and showing it off themselves !
Yes, I and probably many others would like to own and use software that will fill up our bank balances. I see nothing wrong in that. We may pop some bubbles of false claim, hype etc. on the way but I see nothing wrong with that either.
Alas my programming skills are not really up to much Andycan so I am willing to pay out hard earned money for assistance from others. Lets face it its either that or giving up, and quitting too easily isn’t an option in my book. Software vendors are welcome to my cash as long as its value for money and that is what I mean to find out. I expect some vendors will be unwilling to accept the challenge and it will be noted as such.
Lets make the fur fly gents/ladies,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

Pat494
my program skills are non existent but in reality even if i could program i would prefare to be discretionary
but i see your point now thank you
maybe embark on a project to learn to program tradestation of something like that i have been told its not too hard and there are plenty of codes pre written but that needs to be looked into
if you have the foundation of a system then there are programmers who will code it for you
good luck though

 

[Directional]

Pat,
If there was a vendor out there who could provide a profitable system that was cheap and anyone could utilise, then we'd all be living the life of Riley.

I fear you are 'Grail Hunting', which is likely to be more time consuming, expensive and frustrating than following andycan's suggestion and developing your own system.
Tim.

totally agree with these comments. good post

 

[Pat494]

The following re-drafting of the open letter will resolve some of the excellent points raised, I hope

Dear Sirs,
I am interested in finding and then using good trading software for the financial markets. There are so many companies offering their software these days that it is difficult to make an informed choice. The obvious course of buying and testing lots of software is an extremely expensive option. I think I can offer a better solution.
Please would you consider either:-
1. The preferred method of you writing a journal on Trade2Win or Elite websites using your own software for 2 months.
2. Letting a long standing member of the 2 most prestigious Financial websites on the planet, both having an excess of 60,000 members use your software and with your help keep a daily journal on these sites for 2 months.
thus giving you a HUGE amount of FREE publicity.
However if you feel that this is too much of a challenge etc. for you or your software please e-mail me back and I will publish your letter on the current thread. If I haven't heard from you by this time next week I shall assume you or your software are unable to compete !
Thank you

I thought perhaps a week's debate and then start next weekend

 

[SOCRATES]

The following re-drafting of the open letter will resolve some of the excellent points raised, I hope

Dear Sirs,
I am interested in finding and then using good trading software for the financial markets. There are so many companies offering their software these days that it is difficult to make an informed choice. The obvious course of buying and testing lots of software is an extremely expensive option. I think I can offer a better solution.
Please would you consider either:-
1. The preferred method of you writing a journal on Trade2Win or Elite websites using your own software for 2 months.
2. Letting a long standing member of the 2 most prestigious Financial websites on the planet, both having an excess of 60,000 members use your software and with your help keep a daily journal on these sites for 2 months.
thus giving you a HUGE amount of FREE publicity.
However if you feel that this is too much of a challenge etc. for you or your software please e-mail me back and I will publish your letter on the current thread. If I haven't heard from you by this time next week I shall assume you or your software are unable to compete !
Thank you

I thought perhaps a week's debate and then start next weekend

...... ......

 

[sandpiper]

...... ......

totally agree with these comments. good post

 

[millsy500]

Pat, your prayers are answered! Forget fancy software and codes i have the answer. This is available to you at a special discounted price providing you take my offer in the next 12 hrs. Its extremely simple but foolproof.
Just do the opposite of I. I email you my daily picks, you do the opposite, simple. My payment is 10% of profits. Bargain!

 

[Jack o'Clubs]

Hi Pat,

From your posts on the various MTPredictor threads, I can see that you've been looking for a software solution for almost a year now! I don't know if you've been trading discretionally in the mean-time, but it seems to me that you've got a variant of the problem that some traders have with pulling the trigger, except this time it's with buying the 'tools' for the job. From the questions and posts you've made about MTP I would suggest the following:

- decide what sort of trading and markets best suit you (real-time or end-of-day, forex or futures or stocks?)
- think about what sort of solution you're looking for - eg if Elliot Wave / Fibonacci seems a load of mystic mumbo-jumbo to you then ignore the software offering signals based on that. If you think trend-following makes sense, then look at trend-following systems.
- don't discount the advice on here about establishing your own system, after all most free charting software offers more indicators than you can shake a stick at.
- buy a really encyclopedic book on TA and read it cover to cover to help make your mind up about the points above...
- if you narrow down the choices above and still decide you need a black-box rather than using ordinary indicators then use the reviews and comments on here and EliteTrader to choose the software and then just buy it and use it!

I understand your nervousness about paying out for something and it turning out not to be worthwhile, but sooner or later, if you want to trade through a system you're going to have to just bite the bullet and go for it. Personally, as you're so worried about this, and you want a system rather than to trade discretionally, I would have thought you'd be better off basing your trading off a 'free' indicator based method such as Vegas Tunnel, etc and just trade through that. Ultimately Timsk is absolutely right - there is no holy grail, don't spend another year looking for it when you could be spending that time gaining experience trading.