Pension muggers gonna get you

You know what, **** the baby boomers. Their parents made in many cases the ultimate sacrifice in world war two, only to see their offspring steal from themselves and every subsequent generation.

They don't deserve a ****ing pension.

Also, this -------------------------------------------\/
 
@ODT: if you actually knew what you were talking about, you would also know that whatever losses pension funds experienced from their alternative investment strategies, they are truly minuscule, in the grand scheme of things. This bizarre crusade of yours is based on so little actual information, it makes me laugh.
 
@ODT: if you actually knew what you were talking about, you would also know that whatever losses pension funds experienced from their alternative investment strategies, they are truly minuscule, in the grand scheme of things. This bizarre crusade of yours is based on so little actual information, it makes me laugh.

Agreed , but worse is to come for all .

The average pension pot is about £30,000. For a man aged 65, this would have resulted in an annuity worth around £3,300 a year in 1995, compared with just £1,800 today.

The true comparison is the buying power of money in real terms, everything costs on average 5 times more today than in 1995.Clearly stuffed.
 
You know what, **** the baby boomers. Their parents made in many cases the ultimate sacrifice in world war two, only to see their offspring steal from themselves and every subsequent generation.

They don't deserve a ****ing pension.

Also, this -------------------------------------------\/

couldnt agree more. credit gobbling tw@s
 
Agreed , but worse is to come for all .

The average pension pot is about £30,000. For a man aged 65, this would have resulted in an annuity worth around £3,300 a year in 1995, compared with just £1,800 today.

The true comparison is the buying power of money in real terms, everything costs on average 5 times more today than in 1995.Clearly stuffed.

Should have known what he was getting into then.

Now compulsory occupational pension schemes for the low paid... there's a crime.
 
Agreed , but worse is to come for all .
The average pension pot is about £30,000. For a man aged 65, this would have resulted in an annuity worth around £3,300 a year in 1995, compared with just £1,800 today.
Yes, but what does that have to do with the performance of pension fund managers, those you call "crooks"?
The true comparison is the buying power of money in real terms, everything costs on average 5 times more today than in 1995.Clearly stuffed.
Apart from the completely random multiple of 5x you're using, this tells me nothing without a measure of how incomes have grown since 1995. Clearly, if everything costs 5 times more today than in 1995, but an average person takes home 5 times as much disposable income as they used to 1995, it doesn't really suggest anyone's necessarily stuffed.
 
MG, in an ar5e about face way, I think he's saying pension managers have pushed pensions as a safe investment for their bonuses when the reality is that an annuity from your average pension pot isn't worth sh1t as inflation has eroded the buying power e.g. the 3300 p/a in his example. Basically he believes that fund managers have underperformed in the sense that Joe Average's pension hasn't beat inflation.

Now that's all well and good as a theory IMO but my beef with this argument is where are the figures? Proper figures not DailyMail headlines.
 
MG, in an ar5e about face way, I think he's saying pension managers have pushed pensions as a safe investment for their bonuses when the reality is that an annuity from your average pension pot isn't worth sh1t as inflation has eroded the buying power e.g. the 3300 p/a in his example. Basically he believes that fund managers have underperformed in the sense that Joe Average's pension hasn't beat inflation.

Now that's all well and good as a theory IMO but my beef with this argument is where are the figures? Proper figures not DailyMail headlines.
Well, that's my point... Young ODT knows not the subject of which he speaks.

Firstly, the underwater pensions that so infuriate him are actually the older "defined benefit" schemes. The problem with those is most emphatically not that the annuities are too small, but rather the opposite. Specifically, the payouts unconditionally promised to pensioners are excessively generous (especially, the indexation terms, i.e. inflation linkage). Given the life expectancy of the participants in many of these schemes, there isn't a manager in the world that can consistently deliver returns of this sort. That's the problem with the big legacy black holes that companies like BT, BA and Royal Mail are saddled with. (BTW, guess who promised these payouts?). The more modern "defined contribution" schemes are a lot healthier, in this sense.

Secondly, it would be vastly superior, actually, if pension payouts were actually performance-linked. This is how the Dutch pension schemes are organized and, while they've undoubtedly sufffered in the crisis, they're the best example we currently have of a relatively well-organized pension system. Point is that it's a system that encourages responsibility and, most importantly, maintains realistic expectations, especially with regards to the inflation linkage. So if pensioners who have contributed get paid too little and are unhappy, the board of trustees (elected by the pensioners themselves) and the manager all get fired. That's a system that makes a lot of sense to me.

Finally, indeed, young ODT is not really offering much in the way of substance. I have no reason to believe that pension funds, by and large, have underperformed inflation so far, given the explicit RPI linkage (e.g. ironically, the BoE employees' pension scheme). The problem isn't really about now, it's about the future.
 
bullet points for sh!ts and giggles:

* most pensions schemes you can opt out of and do it yourself. You are not entitled to an outperforming pension manager

* there is a developing market for longevity swaps, for pensions and insurers
 
bullet points for sh!ts and giggles:

* most pensions schemes you can opt out of and do it yourself. You are not entitled to an outperforming pension manager

* there is a developing market for longevity swaps, for pensions and insurers
* Exactly... There's all sorts of bizarre expectations that people have evolved over many years where their pensions are concerned. In most cases, that's the real culprit, rather than the performance of your actual pension fund.

* Yeah, "developing" is the word. I should say that it was developing until the crisis. Unfortunately, like many other things, the longevity swap mkt sorta died a premature death during the throes of the crisis. Even now, it's hardly at the top of the list of fires the pension/insurance people have to fight immediately.
 
one more

* got half an eye on what Sarkozy does / how the french react. Trouble brewing, methinks.
 
one more
* got half an eye on what Sarkozy does / how the french react. Trouble brewing, methinks.
Well, to be honest, MrG, 2mln people on strike to protest against pension reform means trouble is here, rather than brewing... Or maybe it's just another day in the office (pun intended) for the French workers.
 
Did you know that the French police consists of two tranches; One tranch reports directly to the g'ment, while another lot are responsible for the security of the locals who, by proxy, employ them. Thats the case in Spain and Italy I think too. So it turns out that you have men with guns walking around that are being told to work XX% longer/harder that don't have to report to the G'ment? Liberté, égalité, fraternité is gonna bit them in the derriere.

Also, seeing as I'm on a role, here is my in-depth synopsis of the future of the euro-zone:

* portugese auction was well bid but expensive
* german data soft
* greece will probably have to re-structure
* basel III will f*ck the banks
* if slovakia get away with not paying, that is going to **** everyone else right off

thats about it.
 
Did you know that the French police consists of two tranches; One tranch reports directly to the g'ment, while another lot are responsible for the security of the locals who, by proxy, employ them. Thats the case in Spain and Italy I think too. So it turns out that you have men with guns walking around that are being told to work XX% longer/harder that don't have to report to the G'ment? Liberté, égalité, fraternité is gonna bit them in the derriere.

Also, seeing as I'm on a role, here is my in-depth synopsis of the future of the euro-zone:

* portugese auction was well bid but expensive
* german data soft
* greece will probably have to re-structure
* basel III will f*ck the banks
* if slovakia get away with not paying, that is going to **** everyone else right off

thats about it.


No way!!!

Paying what? Haven't been following all the action. Have enough trouble concentrating on work as it is in Ramadan :S
 
Yes, but what does that have to do with the performance of pension fund managers, those you call "crooks"?

Apart from the completely random multiple of 5x you're using, this tells me nothing without a measure of how incomes have grown since 1995. Clearly, if everything costs 5 times more today than in 1995, but an average person takes home 5 times as much disposable income as they used to 1995, it doesn't really suggest anyone's necessarily stuffed.

If you were saving from 1980 , and increased your pension contributions by 5 % to 10 % from 1995, the contributor would really be worse off in 2010 if their pension was to mature .Wages and incomes at the lower end have not gone up proportionately.

http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/historic-inflation-calculator

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:UK_national_minimum_wage_percentage_changes_1999-2010.svg
 
Overall group pension managed fund returns over the past ten years have been a disappointing 0.5% per annum on average, well below the Irish inflation rate of 2.5% per annum over the same time horizon. Indeed, none of the managed funds surveyed outperformed inflation over this period, while four of the ten funds failed to deliver positive returns over 10 years.

Take a good look at the performance charts of major fund managers in the article.

http://www.finfacts.ie/fincentre/irishpenfunds.htm
 
The food prices up 58% in last three years.In the real world everything is more expensive.The pensions will not provide enough to live off.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...-prices-58--Cost-groceries-rocketed-2007.html

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/b...food-prices-expected-to-continue-2073095.html


I see 500% increase in bread prices from 1995 . 20 p loaf of bread in 1999 is now costing 100p.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/7p-loaf-marks-greatest-price-war-since-sliced-bread-1068777.html

http://www.mysupermarket.co.uk/shelves/bread_in_Tesco.html

Rise in global food prices expected to continue

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/b...food-prices-expected-to-continue-2073095.html
 
What is your point here, odt? As I mentioned in my previous post, you're not making sense.
 
The fat cat fund manager will give you 0.5 % return , whereas the building society returned 3% to 5 % per annum over the last 10 years .

The bid offer is 5% to close your pension , it means the 0.5 % (5% over 10 years) is wiped out to zero returns.

http://www.finfacts.ie/fincentre/irishpenfunds.htm

and you will have to pay tax on the 0.5 % from the maddoff managers,

http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/pensioners/pension-company.htm

It just proves nobody makes money for somebody else.The brokers , the managers and wall street insiders are busy filling only their own pockets with bonuses.
 
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