No B.S. Day Trading

[jayjay121]

i cannot beleive how simple greys methods were yesterday when i was trading with him. Ok we do have to be aware of news at all times with his methods but they are amazing and so simple and if you can read the market and know when its gone non techical just stay out but even for me this will take time to get. No trendlines, no fibs, no volume, no bs basically, just pure cycle analysis.

Perhaps its futher confirmation that as traders we do like to over complicate and ive been guilty of this for too long now. It works, keep stops tight, run profits and move up stops to breakeven then +10, it works i tell yer.

The post above by market wizard and my own thoughts on yesterday are it can be done but its all down to the trader, their personality, their ability to do money management and their ability to strickly follow the rules..............you cannot trade greys way unless you are truely disciplned which something i currently have issues with.

TA now more than ever is of high importance in trading due to the expansion of the internet and many home traders doing it, also some feel the level 2 game is being manipulated and can no longer be realied upon, well ive been around the blocks and grey as everyone knows is the only genuine guy out there maybe apart from newton bomb as he does post live calls which every mentor should do imo as its all bs otherwise. Grey is the real deal i have to say.

Im well aware it was a one off experience for me trading with grey and it came from months and months of hounding him, so im grateful for his time and i learnt more yesterday than i ever thought possible........I think it can be best said like this: you cannot learn to drive a car by reading a book.

 

[porph]

Hi Grey,

How often do you run seminars? I am still in the 'constantly changing strategy' phase with predictably inconsistent results.

 

[Grey1]

Hi Grey,

How often do you run seminars? I am still in the 'constantly changing strategy' phase with predictably inconsistent results.

Hi

My seminar is once a month where I trade live and explain the reason for taking the trade.I also discuss money and risk management techniques and apply them in real time.


You can apply here to join Techncial Trader BB and If your membership is accepted then you can join the seminar..It is all free.

http://www.trade2win.com/boards/profile.php?do=editusergroups

Grey1

 

[porph]

Great, thanks for responding so quickly!

 

[Grey1]

None sense. I have traded live for 50 people from this BB who also followed my trades many times and NONE of the traders ever suffered from big draw down. In fact the draw down has been very very small ...



Grey1

Today I traded the stocks AAPL and JOY,,, LIVE with 60 traders from this BB with near ZERO draw down , 70Cents win AAPL and 25 Cents in JOYG . No losses

Techncial Trader members made $$$$ and also more than any thing else we discussed the risk management side of the market.


Grey1

 

[AgentZ86]

Risk Management Good

Hi

My seminar is once a month where I trade live and explain the reason for taking the trade.I also discuss money and risk management techniques and apply them in real time.


You can apply here to join Techncial Trader BB and If your membership is accepted then you can join the seminar..It is all free.

http://www.trade2win.com/boards/profile.php?do=editusergroups

Grey1

I think many traders don't understand the risk management topic before trading which puts them in big losses before they even come up with a strategy

Sounds interesting perhaps I'll joing the seminar as well.

 

[Grey1]

I think many traders don't understand the risk management topic before trading which puts them in big losses before they even come up with a strategy

Sounds interesting perhaps I'll joing the seminar as well.

apply here to join

http://www.trade2win.com/boards/profile.php?do=editusergroups

Grey1

 

[eliau]

Hi people.
the only thing that makes a good trader in my opinion is controlling the greed-fear relationshis inside our small brains .
although knowing how to read the order book helps too....
best:clap:

 

[Dasnaq]

I agree eliau, trading is largly a battle to control emotions and have dicipline. In my opinion to have control over your trading you need control over other areas of your life. If you can't stick to a diet, can you stick to a trading plan?

 

[fugly]

I know this because I've swung up to 150 contracts at a clip, sat next to guys who traded 500 at a clip and personally know a guy who trades up to 2,000 at a clip.

SFL

SFL the 2000 clip guy wouldnt happen to be Paul rotter aka "the flipper" would it? The reason I say this is because he's the biggest day trader in the world trades the dax and his method is exactly as you describe it which is trading the order book.

 

[SFL Trader]

SFL the 2000 clip guy wouldnt happen to be Paul rotter aka "the flipper" would it? The reason I say this is because he's the biggest day trader in the world trades the dax and his method is exactly as you describe it which is trading the order book.

No. But I certainly know who "the flipper" is.

This is a guy in Chicago who trades US Treasuries.

 

[42* S]

SFL

You are right on the mark , having traded desk , prop & full time private for some years this is how it works in the Short term game .

people may beg to differ but then again they are probably on the other side of the trade

 

[alphamaster22]

What about John Arnold of Centaurus Energy, Youngest self-made billionaire in the world, trades technicals. How about James Simons of RenTech, net worth $6Billion, trades technicals. How about D.E.Shaw they trade technicals. Oh wait what about Steven Cohen of SAC Capital, net worth $8 Billion, trades technicals. John Henry trades technicals and plenty of other Forbes 500 members do.
FLIP SIDE George Soros, Warren Buffet, etc... trade fundamentals. PROOF IS THEY BOTH CAN WORK VERY WELL!

 

[SuperDriveGuy]

What about John Arnold of Centaurus Energy, Youngest self-made billionaire in the world, trades technicals. How about James Simons of RenTech, net worth $6Billion, trades technicals. How about D.E.Shaw they trade technicals. Oh wait what about Steven Cohen of SAC Capital, net worth $8 Billion, trades technicals. John Henry trades technicals and plenty of other Forbes 500 members do.
FLIP SIDE George Soros, Warren Buffet, etc... trade fundamentals. PROOF IS THEY BOTH CAN WORK VERY WELL!

Hi Alpha,
Thanks for the post.

I just read up on James Simon and its something/somewhere one can aspire to.
RenTec's Jim Simons on "From Quant to Riches" - Quantnet.org - Financial Engineering Forum
Regards

 

[alphamaster22]

You are welcome SuperDriveGuy, and Thank You for that interesting post. Pertaining to the subject of this thread, I was thinking last night after I made the last post and thought why anything to do with observing numbers is "technical". Therefore, the guy who started this forum and said technicals is B.S. does not seem to know that even looking at the book is technicals. Even most fundamentalist use some technicals, if they want to buy based on fundamentals, but they are waiting even for the slightest of pullback in the instrument they're trading, that is technicals.

 

[AsiF5566]

Money behind momentum will keep the momentum going, and scalpers only need to correctly detect this fact.... problem is, how to figure out this volume of orders for FX.... !!!

 

[alphamaster22]

I had recently read, about two months ago, in a trading magazine, I think Active Trader, that if you use an ATR with a period of 1 it is something like the volume. I can understand how it relates, does anyone else agree or have thoughts on that.

 

[Trader333]

I think Active Trader, that if you use an ATR with a period of 1 it is something like the volume.

I cannot see how that can be the case. If a market has low liquidity then very low volume can make a large ATR but so could large volume in a very liquid market also give the same ATR.


Paul

 

[fugly]

What about John Arnold of Centaurus Energy, Youngest self-made billionaire in the world, trades technicals. How about James Simons of RenTech, net worth $6Billion, trades technicals. How about D.E.Shaw they trade technicals. Oh wait what about Steven Cohen of SAC Capital, net worth $8 Billion, trades technicals. John Henry trades technicals and plenty of other Forbes 500 members do.
FLIP SIDE George Soros, Warren Buffet, etc... trade fundamentals. PROOF IS THEY BOTH CAN WORK VERY WELL!

Read your own post once again ........ all the fundamental guys are way way above the technical guys ..... what does that tell you

 

[SFL Trader]

What about John Arnold of Centaurus Energy, Youngest self-made billionaire in the world, trades technicals. How about James Simons of RenTech, net worth $6Billion, trades technicals. How about D.E.Shaw they trade technicals. Oh wait what about Steven Cohen of SAC Capital, net worth $8 Billion, trades technicals. John Henry trades technicals and plenty of other Forbes 500 members do.
FLIP SIDE George Soros, Warren Buffet, etc... trade fundamentals. PROOF IS THEY BOTH CAN WORK VERY WELL!

Unless you are sitting next to these guys, you have no idea how they actually trade. I've sat next to scalpers who say they use technicals but when it comes to entering and exiting, they're watching the order book...not charts. Plus, I'm talking about short-term, hardcore day trading. The guys you mention can trade huge volume over the long-term and because of that, can sit and wait for weeks, months or even years for a move. Not to mention, if they're trading short-term, their size can actually cause the moves. This is what I come back to over and over again and I discuss it in detail on my website. If Buffet sells 20 billion, his selling causes the market to go down. Regardless of technical indicators.

A guy who's trying to pyramid a small amount into a large amount in less than a century cannot trade real long-term and cannot influence the market. He has to take advantage of short-term momentum plays. Yes, a guy like John Arnold might be a short-term player but he graduated from college and went to a prop desk where he made millions using someone else's money. And you better believe anyone trading Crude Oil and Natural Gas watches the order book like a hawk. "This might be support but let's wait and see just how much trades..."

For some reason, some people don't seem to understand that the market doesn't do this or that because it's a technical setup. It moves because people are buying and selling. That's the point I'm making.

So the market stopped here last week. So what. Who says it's going to do it again? Are you better off stepping up and blindly buying it to see if the support holds or are you better off trying to get a feel for the short-term momentum by watching the current bids and offers? By watching how much is trading right now? Because right now is what matters.

If someone sold 3000 contracts and cleared out 3 bids at once, you better believe there aren't many people who are going to step in front of that anytime soon. So if you are trading by the chart and not watching the volume and this is your support price, you are going to get run over. End of story. All I'm saying is a a person could prevent that from happening every now and then if he would take the time to learn something about reading order flow.

And I'm aware that reading the volume is technically "technical" Someone else made that point earlier in the post and my response is...reading the order flow is generally referred to as reading the tape and doesn't typically fall under "technical analysis". I think when most people think of TA, they think of charts and indicators...and something else if you're male.