Level 2 threads never last long

[coopster]

Is this because Level 2 is a dying art that is rapidly becoming outdated and obsolete?

Is it because all that use it can't easily describe it to others?

Are people making so much money from it, that they don't want to share?

Is the only way to learn to sit in front of the ticking numbers all day so there is no point in talking about it?

Has anyone found resources (DVD's, books ,websites etc) that actually helped them trade L2 better? Most i see are outdated.

Would be good to hear the views of others.

 

[wackypete2]

A dying art is probably the reason. When online trading first came into the retail culture level 2 was a good strategy. Soon afterwards, the marker makers, dealers, NASD, and NYSE figured out how to dupe those home gamers using level 2 and most traders abandoned it instead of adapting. Traders now are more likely to gravitate to any platform with those nifty neato keen multi-colored graphs with the latest greatest high-powered indicators clouding up the price.

Just my opinion,

Peter

 

[Chartsy]

try the NObs day trading pdf which is around these forums somewhere

 

[amit1986]

I think most of us level 2 traders are just getting on with it and not really making a big fuss out of it...it works still...I see it working everyday...but there's really no need to come online and make bold statements about it.

The only way to really learn it is to sit in front of the screen and watch it develop. Only now am I really starting to realize what to look for on level 2, as opposed to a few months ago, when things were still hazy. It takes a VERY long time.

 

[timsk]

try the NObs day trading pdf which is around these forums somewhere

The No BS Daytrading pdf is copyright material and all links (should) have been removed. However, the pdf is not expensive and is well worth the money charged for it, so, buy it from the source: No BS Daytrading

There's a piece of software developed by T2Ws very own DionysusToast that's getting good reviews called Jigsaw Trading Unfortunately, it's only for NinjaTrader users - which I don't use - so I've not tried it out myself. It's based around T&S as opposed to the Level II screen, so it focuses on actual trade prints. So, it's more akin to old fashioned tape reading than deciphering the shenanigans on L2.

With regard to the OP's questions, my view is that it's not a dying art as such, but it is an evolving and very specialized one. There's no doubt in my mind that traders who are good at it definitely have an extra string to their bow. Personally, I'm not good with numbers and prefer the graphic representation of a chart. Consequently, I use cumulative delta which isn't the same - obviously - but it does provide insight into order flow and sentiment that a price chart alone doesn't do, IMO.
Tim.

 

[Lightning McQueen]

The No BS Daytrading pdf is copyright material and all links (should) have been removed. However, the pdf is not expensive and is well worth the money charged for it, so, buy it from the source: No BS Daytrading

hi tim, not wishing to snipe from the sidelines as that's a cheap shot, or indeed derail the thread but i can't stand by or contain myself, sorry.

the original upload was indeed removed and the original post also, but sloppy moderating has left up a quote of the original post. so it was easy for me to see who was the guilty party, a member of 4 years standing and could see he'd been banned, i assume permanently. others who have linked have had their links/posts removed but i still found the doc in question easily on t2w from another members post, he gives a site where it can be easily downloaded. does he get banned also? what a mess!

anyway, soz for the interruption people

 

[timsk]

hi tim, not wishing to snipe from the sidelines as that's a cheap shot, or indeed derail the thread but i can't stand by or contain myself, sorry.

No problem Don.
Sorry if my post sounded like I was having a go at the Mods - current or past. That wasn't my intention at all! I meant to infer that I don't know whether or not all the pdf's have been removed - not that the mod's are being lax about removing them.

Tim.

 

[Lightning McQueen]

No problem Don.
Sorry if my post sounded like I was having a go at the Mods - current or past. That wasn't my intention at all! I meant to infer that I don't know whether or not all the pdf's have been removed - not that the mod's are being lax about removing them.

Tim.

i do believe all is well now and a satisfactory fair outcome for all parties involved, and the final (as far as can tell) pdf download pointer has now been reported for removal/edit.

 

[wackypete2]

i do believe all is well now and a satisfactory fair outcome for all parties involved...

I feel the love in the room.

Peter

 

[coopster]

Thanks for the views guys, well the relevant ones anyway. Strange how talking about No BS becomes BS !!

I struggle with L2. Yes i can sometimes see pressure on one side or the other but by the time i've realised whats coming, it has already happened. Or, i think i see what is coming, enter like a chump, get the worlds worst price and spend the rest of the time nursing my loss that i incurred in the first few seconds of the trade!

What are your views on market makers in terms of what you can see on L2? Are they active in ways that people are still teaching about? Ie, find the Ax, watch his moves etc? I haven't seen that so often, if at all. Has this aspect of L2 changed? Is it now just a bunch of Algos and the devious MM is a thing of the past?

Are there any techniques that helped you stay focussed on the L2 during the day. Once an area on a chart has been identified as a setup, are your entries purely on L2?

Be good to hear your views.

thanks

 

[Traderesq]

It honestly took me about 18 months of watching the Level 2 daily in order to 'get it' on an advanced level. You can maybe pay for courses that can shorten this time a lot, but I think it is kind of just a matter of watching enough Level 2s for different kinds of stocks in different kinds of market conditions to know what's normal and what's different and worth paying attention to. You can then have a decent chance of being able to identify large buyers and sellers in the Level 2 and determine how aggressive or passive they are willing to be at various prices. You can also use the Level 2 to identify real large bids/offers vs. fake ones.

 

[MajorDutch]

ok I will start a thread on trading the order book and time and sales, lets see how long it lasts.

 

[JahDave]

I still say read your charts...........This is the macro, and level 2 is the micro, in my opinion.............

 

[Traderesq]

I still say read your charts...........This is the macro, and level 2 is the micro, in my opinion.............

As a discretionary day trader ideally you want to be skilled at both in order to put yourself in the best risk-reward scenarios. Although some experienced traders can definitely do well with just one or the other, it shouldn't really be an either/or type of thing. Charts are extremely important too.

 

[coopster]

As a discretionary day trader ideally you want to be skilled at both in order to put yourself in the best risk-reward scenarios. Although some experienced traders can definitely do well with just one or the other, it shouldn't really be an either/or type of thing. Charts are extremely important too.

I Would agree with that. The chart shows far more clearly the history of the stock. Once you know that trading is in a particular area of interest, the chart has done its job and the L2 can be used to watch the events occuring in more detail.

 

[coopster]

ok I will start a thread on trading the order book and time and sales, lets see how long it lasts.

Looking forward to it. Post a link on this thread when it is up and running.

Will be interesting to see how you document the trades so that the reader can understand what you looked for etc.