Larry Williams

[JimTru]

It really doesn't matter what we say here to try to help others in the details of their trading. Helping other traders has to be very, very specific because there are so many variables involved in each trade that trading strategies, automated or not, will end up having an exponential number of possible entry and exit options; too many for anyone to take the time to address. And one variable out of place will reduce your win rate more toward 50%.

Our minds are so wonderfully created that successful traders can't express with their mouths (keyboards, etc) the awesome pattern recognitions, cumulative observations that manifest as a strong feeling, or many other subconscious calculations their minds go through for each trading decision; not just when to trade but when not to, and how much to risk and for how long, etc., etc.

Larry is / was trying to be helpful, and to make money thru educational sales, but in the end after reading his books, taking his classes and attending his seminars, all he could say to me was "it just takes time to learn". That's another way of saying: "I don't want to take the time to teach you all the other things you need to know, so you're on your own."

I have not met any trading teacher in my fourteen years of trading derivatives that has not made that statement to me in one form or another.

 

[safvan]

It really doesn't matter what we say here to try to help others in the details of their trading. Helping other traders has to be very, very specific because there are so many variables involved in each trade that trading strategies, automated or not, will end up having an exponential number of possible entry and exit options; too many for anyone to take the time to address. And one variable out of place will reduce your win rate more toward 50%.

Our minds are so wonderfully created that successful traders can't express with their mouths (keyboards, etc) the awesome pattern recognitions, cumulative observations that manifest as a strong feeling, or many other subconscious calculations their minds go through for each trading decision; not just when to trade but when not to, and how much to risk and for how long, etc., etc.

Larry is / was trying to be helpful, and to make money thru educational sales, but in the end after reading his books, taking his classes and attending his seminars, all he could say to me was "it just takes time to learn". That's another way of saying: "I don't want to take the time to teach you all the other things you need to know, so you're on your own."

I have not met any trading teacher in my fourteen years of trading derivatives that has not made that statement to me in one form or another.

Brilliant sum up. Trading rules are easy to transmit but trading skills are not. They are developed on their own and really takes time and experience. This is a time period every one serious in this business has to go through.

Reading success and getting clues from them is not a bad idea. Its like two grocery shops competing. The one with less profit has to figure out what the other guy is doing right and this takes your full time attention.

 

[popeyex]

I developed my own style based on Larry Wlliams COT Proxy. I don't find his entry / exit signal relevant to my trading style... he did mention people are changing his ideas and adapting to their own style until he himself no longer know what they are called.

You can see my blog for the COT trading ideas and see if you can adapt it to your own individual style.

http://uncleti88.blogspot.com/

 

[Jason101]

This seems like a very strange, discombobulated thread. I shall join in.

I am here to ask I think I read from Larry Williams that he trades at and recommends traders trade at 20% risk of their account per trade. Is that something anyone here has recollections of this endorsement.

 

[lcchong76]

I read somewhere that he said 2%

This seems like a very strange, discombobulated thread. I shall join in.

I am here to ask I think I read from Larry Williams that he trades at and recommends traders trade at 20% risk of their account per trade. Is that something anyone here has recollections of this endorsement.

 

[JimTru]

Popeye, thank you for posting. If it were safe, and account numbers were not shown, would you be willing to show your broker statements to me? I would feel confident then putting in some time to start learning your approach.

 

[JimTru]

I read somewhere that he said 2%

That's about what I heard. He's always said "You've got to trade small to win big."

 

[popeyex]

Popeye, thank you for posting. If it were safe, and account numbers were not shown, would you be willing to show your broker statements to me? I would feel confident then putting in some time to start learning your approach.

i can't send you my statements but what I can do i will give you rules that I used and you can backtest it from there, you can forward test it too if you want.

just to make it clear that i use only 30% of Larry's ideas which is the COT Proxy and the rest based on my own techniques. I will give you my the methods on how to identify entries and exits and I presume you already have the calculation for the COT Proxy as I will not reveal the formula (covering Larry's interest and also due to copyright issues)

pm me your email

Uncle Ti 88
http://uncleti88.blogspot.com

 

[yiehom]

How do you derive the cot proxy?

I developed my own style based on Larry Wlliams COT Proxy. I don't find his entry / exit signal relevant to my trading style... he did mention people are changing his ideas and adapting to their own style until he himself no longer know what they are called.

You can see my blog for the COT trading ideas and see if you can adapt it to your own individual style.

Uncle Ti 88

 

[KatieLBRfan]

Hello everyone,

I read an interview of Larry Williams a while ago. I can't remember the name. I think he said something about limiting the risk for trading one commodity to 2% of his account balance. Since he couldn't limit his risk of loss when trading silver to 2% (due to volatility maybe?), he wasn't trading silver.

In the money management chapter of Long-Term Secrets To Short-Term Profits, he gives a general guideline where you risk 10% to 15% of your account on a trade. This 10-15% is the largest amount you are willing to lose on the greatest loss that your trading system can produce (or has produced in the past) for 1 contract times the number of contracts you are trading. If you follow the system rules, you probably would not lose this amount very often; it's the worst case scenario. He says that others can risk more or less depending on their preference, but he says if you risk 20% or more, you should go to church regularly.

I'm fairly new to trading. I've mostly been a fundamental investor in stocks. My take on what I've been reading about trading is that if you put 20% of your account balance on a trade, but you only risk losing 10% of the 20% by placing a close stop by your entry price, you are only risking 2% of your account balance on the trade: 20% X 10% = 2%

I read a book by Dr. Alexander Elder. He said to limit risk for trades to 2%. My understanding is that the 2% is what you would lose when you are stopped out, not the total amount you put into a trade, and you always place a stop as soon as you place your trade. With slippage, you could lose a little more than 2%.

 

[pboyles]

Hello everyone,

I read an interview of Larry Williams a while ago. I can't remember the name. I think he said something about limiting the risk for trading one commodity to 2% of his account balance. Since he couldn't limit his risk of loss when trading silver to 2% (due to volatility maybe?), he wasn't trading silver.

In the money management chapter of Long-Term Secrets To Short-Term Profits, he gives a general guideline where you risk 10% to 15% of your account on a trade. This 10-15% is the largest amount you are willing to lose on the greatest loss that your trading system can produce (or has produced in the past) for 1 contract times the number of contracts you are trading. If you follow the system rules, you probably would not lose this amount very often; it's the worst case scenario. He says that others can risk more or less depending on their preference, but he says if you risk 20% or more, you should go to church regularly.

I'm fairly new to trading. I've mostly been a fundamental investor in stocks. My take on what I've been reading about trading is that if you put 20% of your account balance on a trade, but you only risk losing 10% of the 20% by placing a close stop by your entry price, you are only risking 2% of your account balance on the trade: 20% X 10% = 2%

I read a book by Dr. Alexander Elder. He said to limit risk for trades to 2%. My understanding is that the 2% is what you would lose when you are stopped out, not the total amount you put into a trade, and you always place a stop as soon as you place your trade. With slippage, you could lose a little more than 2%.

You should probably read this before putting your faith in what Larry Williams says. He has used deceptive marketing in the past, don't believe a word he tells you, these guys are just after your money.

CFTC / NFA Levies Fines Against ...

 

[yiehom]

Thanks for this link.
All these burst "wizards"...

You should probably read this before putting your faith in what Larry Williams says. He has used deceptive marketing in the past, don't believe a word he tells you, these guys are just after your money.

CFTC / NFA Levies Fines Against ...

 

[craigthinks]

I met Larry last summer 2012, very nice man. I ask him what I have started asking all the gurus I have meet lately. "Do you have trading signals I can follow and make money? or a newletter/ emails with trades in them and a proof page?
Larry "No, I use to have a newsletter with trades, but I am semi-retired."
I also ask him if you trades differently in the trade contests?
Yes, to win a trading contest, you have to trade in a very risky way. (or somethink like that)
He has won 2 trading contests and his 16 year old girl one a trading contest. (Michelle Williams, now an actor-- see wikipedia- My Week with Marilyn)
He did tell the funny story about to IRS taking him from Austraia to USA. He paid a small fine a got out. The virgin islands have a lower tax rate.
He did not metion any NFA fine mentioned above.
For me, a trading guru should have trades that we can make money on or at least to proof a consistant method.

He did say the market has changed alot, especially since 2008 and his books are a little out of date. He like to swing/position trade commodities. And he develop technicals for that. Tradestation just added one or more of them in late 2012.

 

[JimTru]

I'll second the mention here that LW is only after others' money. After further study of his and many more trade education services, a common thread is that the educator will not disclose their brokers' statements to prove they are consistently profitable over time, nor will they disclose which of their called trades that they took and those they passed on. LW did have a decent trade calling service from 06-09 but then retired it. His next endeavor was called "The Art of Trading" which was a very revealing title. It told me that LW could not relay or educate others on his methods because, like painting or sculpting, they are matters of discretion and subjective observations.

I recommend before engaging any trading service or educator, that you ask that they pool their money with yours and take any losses with you. If they are truly interested in your development, they'd gladly take that opportunity to see how their service can be improved, and use their money to soften the blows of them making mistakes with you and your money. Most will think this foolish, but that's how Mentors throughout history have always taught their Apprentices. Mentors put Apprentices in charge of small amounts of wealth or business and let the Apprentices make small mistakes. The more astute the Mentor and his teachings, the less the Apprentice would lose until he learned enough to become an asset. I don't know any Master Trader who would not want a small army of learned Apprentices trading his systems across all derivative and currency markets, duplicating his efforts and leveraging his knowledge to multiply his wealth more quickly than he could on his own.

The only service providers and educators who would not take you up on this are those who know their offerings really don't work, or are too difficult to use within a relatively short time by the average subscriber. It's a good question to ask in order to save you time when searching for your trading Mentor.

 

[yiehom]

Agreed, but that type of mentor won't chare you a mere 99 dollars.
Also I think you have that in the best prop shops

I'll second the mention here that LW is only after others' money. After further study of his and many more trade education services, a common thread is that the educator will not disclose their brokers' statements to prove they are consistently profitable over time, nor will they disclose which of their called trades that they took and those they passed on. LW did have a decent trade calling service from 06-09 but then retired it. His next endeavor was called "The Art of Trading" which was a very revealing title. It told me that LW could not relay or educate others on his methods because, like painting or sculpting, they are matters of discretion and subjective observations.

I recommend before engaging any trading service or educator, that you ask that they pool their money with yours and take any losses with you. If they are truly interested in your development, they'd gladly take that opportunity to see how their service can be improved, and use their money to soften the blows of them making mistakes with you and your money. Most will think this foolish, but that's how Mentors throughout history have always taught their Apprentices. Mentors put Apprentices in charge of small amounts of wealth or business and let the Apprentices make small mistakes. The more astute the Mentor and his teachings, the less the Apprentice would lose until he learned enough to become an asset. I don't know any Master Trader who would not want a small army of learned Apprentices trading his systems across all derivative and currency markets, duplicating his efforts and leveraging his knowledge to multiply his wealth more quickly than he could on his own.

The only service providers and educators who would not take you up on this are those who know their offerings really don't work, or are too difficult to use within a relatively short time by the average subscriber. It's a good question to ask in order to save you time when searching for your trading Mentor.

 

[pboyles]

Larry was fined for cooking the books and trying to make himself out as a guru, stay well clear of people like this.

 

[small_beer]

I'll second the mention here that LW is only after others' money. After further study of his and many more trade education services, a common thread is that the educator will not disclose their brokers' statements to prove they are consistently profitable over time, nor will they disclose which of their called trades that they took and those they passed on. LW did have a decent trade calling service from 06-09 but then retired it. His next endeavor was called "The Art of Trading" which was a very revealing title. It told me that LW could not relay or educate others on his methods because, like painting or sculpting, they are matters of discretion and subjective observations.

I recommend before engaging any trading service or educator, that you ask that they pool their money with yours and take any losses with you. If they are truly interested in your development, they'd gladly take that opportunity to see how their service can be improved, and use their money to soften the blows of them making mistakes with you and your money. Most will think this foolish, but that's how Mentors throughout history have always taught their Apprentices. Mentors put Apprentices in charge of small amounts of wealth or business and let the Apprentices make small mistakes. The more astute the Mentor and his teachings, the less the Apprentice would lose until he learned enough to become an asset. I don't know any Master Trader who would not want a small army of learned Apprentices trading his systems across all derivative and currency markets, duplicating his efforts and leveraging his knowledge to multiply his wealth more quickly than he could on his own.

The only service providers and educators who would not take you up on this are those who know their offerings really don't work, or are too difficult to use within a relatively short time by the average subscriber. It's a good question to ask in order to save you time when searching for your trading Mentor.

You have truly bizarre ideas here. Yes, I agree that these people should be scrutinized regarding their performance, but expecting them to trade your account goes well beyond simple arrangements, at least in the US. For this you need to be a CTA, and that may not suit most small mentors.

I don't know much about Larry Williams, but I have found some of his stuff okay and not overly overpriced. I mean books and not courses of any kind.