I've been shut down!

[Alexbabwa]

Jack i spent a lot of time looking at all the threads resulting in 'prospreads' search last night. The only issues i read about were whether they really do offer DMA, problems with the new introduction of spot fx, some ninja platform compatibility and wide spreads due to hidden commissions. All of which i can live with for a bookie that wont close me down for winning. Il be sure to phone them up and ask directly, but im not sure i would trust their answer anyway.

clarette you make out im an amatuer for asking on these forums, but thats part of the reason i came to be successful in the first place. Plus it got you to respond didnt it I understand your view. The only reason im taking my chance with bookies is as well as the tax free winnings (for now) the leverage allows me to make more quicker. I dont know much about using an actual broker and what sort of start up capital i would need, hoping it doesnt come to that for a while. Can you tell me from experience that fxcm and prospreads are no different, despite their claims?

In any case, i got my confirmation email this morning, my prospreads account is open and i am happy once again. If they shut me down (im trusting they wont) i could move to fxcm before using a real broker.

 

[Rossini]

FXCM do hedge every position that I enter. To confirm this enter a trade then ring them up and ask for a trace. They can tell you everything about the trade, how long it took to be filled in the market, what slippage (if any), how long it took to get from your server to theirs ect...

The other reason why I am convinced they are legit, is when I enter a large trade (for me) in a thin market like one of the exotics, my order can be broken up into maybe 10 or more different parts as they do their best to fill me at the closest price possible. If they just wanted to make money they would just slip me to fu*k and have done.

I trade with the active trader program, so I have smaller spreads and much lower commission, however if I could be bothered, I could be on exactly the same deal with FXCM spread betting. There is no difference between the two in terms of execution, however you cannot see market depth while SBing.

 

[GladiatorX]

Mind if i suggest; Exchange or multiple-ECN markets, rather than mark-up, fake markets ?
If your unhappy with the idea that
1. Spreadbetting firms have the edge or they wouldn't play
2. Not only do they not want you to win, but if you do they'll kick you out

Doesn't sound like a very unproffesional way of doing business... If your doing trading seriously then i'd suggest finding a fair environment...
Trade stocks exchanges
- NYSE, AMEX, LSE
Or futures
- CME, CBOT, EUREX
Or If your into the idea of OTC, then what your doing is just one provider of liquidity, and its probably just fake,
- ECN Forex, Nasdaq

If your serious about trading, i cannot see why you would choose an unproffesional environment...

 

[Alexbabwa]

Mind if i suggest; Exchange or multiple-ECN markets, rather than mark-up, fake markets ?
If your unhappy with the idea that
1. Spreadbetting firms have the edge or they wouldn't play
2. Not only do they not want you to win, but if you do they'll kick you out

Doesn't sound like a very unproffesional way of doing business... If your doing trading seriously then i'd suggest finding a fair environment...
Trade stocks exchanges
- NYSE, AMEX, LSE
Or futures
- CME, CBOT, EUREX
Or If your into the idea of OTC, then what your doing is just one provider of liquidity, and its probably just fake,
- ECN Forex, Nasdaq

If your serious about trading, i cannot see why you would choose an unproffesional environment...

Once again, tax free and leverage. Thats why. Plus the whole point of going to prospreads is that they hedge their bets and have no agenda conflicting with my own goals. Also i have no idea what the start up cost and expected return of using a real broker is, then theres the tax.

"...just one provider of liquidity, and its probably just fake"? what do you mean

 

[Jack Hughes]

Once again, tax free and leverage. Thats why. Plus the whole point of going to prospreads is that they hedge their bets and have no agenda conflicting with my own goals. Also i have no idea what the start up cost and expected return of using a real broker is, then theres the tax.

"...just one provider of liquidity, and its probably just fake"? what do you mean

Prospreads said their hedging was 'strategic', which seems to mean that they don't bother if they think you're not going to make any profit. This seems to be different from the situation with FuturesBetting, when they constantly crowed about every bet being hedged directly in the market, so the outcome didn't affect them.

 

[GladiatorX]

Once again, tax free and leverage. Thats why. Plus the whole point of going to prospreads is that they hedge their bets and have no agenda conflicting with my own goals. Also i have no idea what the start up cost and expected return of using a real broker is, then theres the tax.

"...just one provider of liquidity, and its probably just fake"? what do you mean

Sorry; I can't be bothered to explain anything to you on a subject that doesn't particularly interest me.

It was a suggestion; You either understand why exchange markets and multiple-ECN markets are better OR you have a lot of gaps to fill in your understanding that i cba 2 fill.

Good luck buddy.

What your doing is trying to compete with Amazon, by purchasing RETAIL ARGOS products as your inventory rather than getting wholesale.

 

[Alexbabwa]

If it makes me money, i don't feel ignorant for having not explored exchange markets yet. I could possibly make money trading options, but if spot fx does well for me why bother. No hard feelings, takes a lot to help strangers on forums when theres money to be made. Opinions without justification though don't carry any weight with me.

 

[ccclarette658]

clarette you make out im an amatuer

We all started as amateurs in this profession. None of us are born knowing. There is no shame in that. Do not be offended - I could see that you were an amateur, so I chose to help you by providing the correct answer to the question you posed.

The only reason im taking my chance with bookies is as well as the tax free winnings (for now) the leverage allows me to make more quicker.

Now you have removed all doubt. You are infected with greed and impatience.

Once again, tax free and leverage.

Also i have no idea what the start up cost and expected return of using a real broker is, then theres the tax.

Lazy attitude. Dereliction. Willful ignorance.

If it makes me money, i don't feel ignorant

You perceive yourself as successful however your perception is flawed. You say you are making money - גם זה יעבור

 

[Paul71]

Asking some nicks on a bulletin board what to do now is totally incongruent with the correct mindset of a trader who is capable of getting it consistently right in the markets.

As you ask I shall give you the correct advice, in contradistinction to what you will be told by the members of this site who are not traders (by this I mean they do not earn their living from trading).

The correct objective is to be professional in this environment. This means understanding what you are doing. When you are proficient you should expect to get it right nearly all the time. The qualifications required are merit, ability, and conduct. If you have these qualities, and persist through sheer dint of will you will ultimately succeed.

Being professional involves doing everything possible to enhance your edge. Part of this is execution. I will explain:

You ought to be participating in the most liquid execution venue for the instrument you are trading. For futures, this means trading at the exchange. There is no excuse for trading an OTC derivative of a future which is incorrectly priced, has exorbitant dealing costs built in, and with a counterparty who wishes you to lose as it is the basis of their business model. A possible exception is if you are holding positions for several weeks there may in some cases be an advantage, from a taxation perspective.

If you are proficient, you should expect your positions to get at the money almost immediately and in the money soon after. Spread betting companies will lose if your position moves in your favour quickly. There are no exceptions. As they are a business who expect to profit they will use every conceivable manipulation to interfere with consistently successful short term traders. This should be obvious. Any "trader" who does not know who their profit comes from and why is not long for this business.

This betting lark is exclusively the domain of the guessers and gamblers who will not succeed trading very fast very liquid markets.

If you are confident that you understand when to buy, when to sell, and when to abstain, and within the correct framework of understanding, you should continue with your trading in a professional manner. This involves considering your quality of execution and dealing costs - these are business costs, and it would behoove you to minimise them as much as possible.

At your current level, this means dealing on the exchange through a competent broker, and not making bets with a bookie.

You will be told all sorts of other things by the blinkered majority on this site, who are not and will never be successful traders. The agenda here is obvious, and a perceptive individual can see at a glance who is who in the zoo. You are responsible for deciding who to listen to - I can assure you there are only a handful of experts on this site, and almost all have better things to do then to fight a pointless rearguard action.

I hope and expect that this clarifies, to your benefit and my satisfaction.

Very kind regards

Thankyou,

Listen, i've got a family to look after, can you make enough each month to clear my mortgage and bills?

I need 7k/month, just to live.

Trade me a lifestyle. How much will you need?

 

[Black Swan]

Thankyou,

Listen, i've got a family to look after, can you make enough each month to clear my mortgage and bills?

I need 7k/month, just to live.

Trade me a lifestyle. How much will you need?

Cool...respect...

 

[Alexbabwa]

fair enough clarette, perhaps i've just been lucky this far. I am starting with prospreads now and their platform is daunting in comparison to what i am used to (wasn't even sure how to close my trade! had to ask). Then again, no one is born with the knowledge so i've got to learn somehow.

Time will tell.

 

[arabianights]

Listen to ccclarette658. It writes in purple.

 

[rawrschach]

At least we know it's not n_t given that it's relatively coherent and hasn't started shouting about stops yet.

 

[trader_dante]

So its not just rhumors. Only a few days ago i replied in a thread saying that it was my opinion those complaining about being shut down were just looking for someone to blame. I would like to change my position. Shortsandlongs have shut me down today. I phoned up and once i gave my acc number the bloke started his excuses before i even explained the problem. We talked for a while and i wouldnt accept any of his answers, such as "your trades are too short to hedge, so we dont want your business". Eventually i got this out of him and was content with the answer "well obviously you know what your doing, and we dont want your business". At least he was honest, eventually.

I can feel myself calming down as i rant right now but i only got about 11,000 out of them. He also acted like he was doing me a favour by allowing me to withdraw what i had left in the account.

So i can't be the first distressed and outraged trader who feels cheated. What is the next step? i am applying to prospreads when i finish this post, but i don't know if they will have me (i havent been trading 12 months). Even if they take me i dont know that they wont shut me down, i mean every bookie claims they don't (as shortsandlongs did when i signed up).

What to do...

A lot of people get their accounts shut down when they win but not for the reason they think. I think they are getting confused over the issue.

I think the majority of people get their account shut down for:

a) trading on inaccurate prices (e.g. realising a broker is slightly slower than another data feed giving them a minute edge getting in and out)

b) scalping in and out (perhaps with no unethical edge) but just extreme skill and holding positions for seconds to at the longest a minute or two giving little or no chance for hedging

c) making a nuisance of themselves by constantly complaining about things (e.g. slippage, platform going down etc)

If I was a bookie and I had a customer that did any of those things and won repeatedly, I would shut them down as I am sure would almost anyone in their right mind.

I am willing to bet that no one has ever been shut down for winning as long as their trades are:

- Taken at the price the market is at and not a "false one"
- Held more than say 30 minutes
- They don't make a nuisance of themselves e.g. ringing up and complaining every two minutes.

If anyone can come forward and prove that is the case do so. That company will lose one hell of a lot of business if that is proved. I don't believe that has ever happened to anyone.

 

[Alexbabwa]

A fair point Dante. However shortsandlongs don't hedge their bets anyway from what im told. Assuming they do though then they are not scalper friendly.

Things are going well with prospreads, there is never any slippage so i dont have to worry about taking advantage of that, they are scalper friendly and hedge any bets that could cause a dent in their pockets.

I dont know why i was shut down, perhaps it was my own fault taking advantage of delayed data feeds. Im just glad i dont have to worry about any of that anymore.

 

[Black Swan]

A fair point Dante. However shortsandlongs don't hedge their bets anyway from what im told. Assuming they do though then they are not scalper friendly.

Things are going well with prospreads, there is never any slippage so i dont have to worry about taking advantage of that, they are scalper friendly and hedge any bets that could cause a dent in their pockets.

I dont know why i was shut down, perhaps it was my own fault taking advantage of delayed data feeds. Im just glad i dont have to worry about any of that anymore.[/QUOTE]

erm..if you read your original post, in which you claim that the you were given the reasons in a one on one conversation, then perhaps your memory will be 'jump-started'....

 

[Alexbabwa]

yes but now im thinking i could have interpreted his reason wrong

"well obviously you know what your doing.."

he could have been refering to taking advantage of delayed data feeds, rather than my knowledge as a trader which was what i thought. However i traded off the norm, support and resistance, overbought oversold etc not waiting to take advantage of a delayed quote (which they would just reject anyway :S). Im just trying to consider all possible reasons and not let my arrogance just assume it was because i knew how to trade.