FAQ Is Trading the Same as Gambling?

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hatemypips

Established member
538 39
When people use the word "gambling" in the pejorative sense they mean placing a bet with negative expectation. Most traders are gambling in that sense, using systems that are no better than the fool at the horse track who thinks he also has a system based on ideas from the 1970s.
On the flip side though, I can't see any good trader who places bets with positive expectation not seeing themselves as a gambler too. To not be able to see gambling,trading and investing as all different shades of risk taking and trying to run systems with positive expectation is just so newb to me. Honestly, if someone on here says they are not a gambler I don't even care what else they have to say. You don't even understand the game you are trying to play and are basically deluded.
Agree we all lose in the long run. Even a bet with negative expectation can bring you profits it all depends on the time when you stop making bets. Professional traders just shift aggregated positive returns on the infinite timeframe closer, while for amateurs its more evenly "distributed" on the timescale. That's why it's not always suitable to judge only by statistics.
 

logicgate

Junior member
20 2
Not gambling because the market is not random, it moves in an organized and orderly fashion, you just need to learn how to read it properly. Some people mistakenly refer to the market as random, but the right word is chaotic, and there is order in chaos.

Gambling involves a game of chance.

I would say that Forex is the most orderly of all, study about the "Quarters Theory" by Ilian Yotov, very good guide to pinpoint where you are in the grid.
 
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logicgate

Junior member
20 2
The casino works just like trading, they have an edge. The games are designed so they have 53% chance of winning. That is right, they have only a 3% edge, and this is enough for them to make millions. So you can say that the casinos are not a game of chance, like flipping a coin where you have 50% - 50% odds. They are designed in a way so the house have an edge.

So you can imagine that when you have a trading edge that provides a 60% or 70% chance of winning, you can make more money than the casino.
 
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M

member275544

0 0
the percentage of winners doesn't determine whether you make money
you can make money with a 30% win rate, and lose with a 70% win rate. Its how much you win when you do win compared to how much you lose when you do lose. otherwise known as the win:loss ratio
I'm sure you know this already though. your trading edge is having a higher win:loss ratio than 1:1
 
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logicgate

Junior member
20 2
Sure, it all comes down to management after you enter the trade, but having a higher percentage of winners is better in my opinion. By that I mean trade setups that have a higher probability of working out.

Even if you had an approach where 90% of the time the setups worked out, if you don´t know how to manage the trade you won´t make money.
 

NVP

Legendary member
36,880 1,900
Some great points so far ........as someone has mentioned already the real edge of trading is you have the ability to run your profits ........unlike most fixed odd gambling events where your return is preordained........even a horse race has odds set before the race starts

However in trading a skillful trader can extract maximum returns from each trade and this is where the money is made...... run your profits is a much quoted phrase but it’s true .....

N
 

bigmistake

Active member
246 1
Gambling can kill you, I never see anyone be killed by Forex. Maybe we can get many reasons for that but Forex doesn't get you more attracted but gambling does.
 

Windlesham1

Well-known member
433 27
Forex is gambling- no different from roulette- black or red
 

Windlesham1

Well-known member
433 27
Hate to be disparaging about any trading as it's hard enough as outsiders. However unless your wins make at least 3 times as much as your losses you have no edge. I have heard some people trade on fundamentals on forex-how the hell that works is anyone's guess. Nobody can know much about the fundamentals unless they are in government. We hear there is much insider trading based on the Trump tariffs and FOMC meetings -allegedly... Either way to day trade forex on some flashy website is the road to ruin
 

cantagril

Senior member
2,546 634
Hate to be disparaging about any trading as it's hard enough as outsiders. However unless your wins make at least 3 times as much as your losses you have no edge. I have heard some people trade on fundamentals on forex-how the hell that works is anyone's guess. Nobody can know much about the fundamentals unless they are in government. We hear there is much insider trading based on the Trump tariffs and FOMC meetings -allegedly... Either way to day trade forex on some flashy website is the road to ruin
I think it would be very helpful if you would expand on your view and what this is based on and add some context. I.e
FX is rubbish because....,
Indices are less rubbish (but still rubbish) because...,
Directional trading is rubbish because...
The only sensible way to trade is X because....
(and maybe even) The only way to trade is X and this is how I do it...:)
 
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Windlesham1

Well-known member
433 27
I think it would be very helpful if you would expand on your view and what this is based on and add some context. I.e
FX is rubbish because....,
Indices are less rubbish (but still rubbish) because...,
Directional trading is rubbish because...
The only sensible way to trade is X because....
(and maybe even) The only way to trade is X and this is how I do it...:)
The evidence speaks for itself unless you live under a rock- I think maybe 1% of Greg Seckers alumni have made a go of trading. There are other trainers.Every website warns that 80% of CFD traders are losers. ( They don't say what a winner is-presumably someone who still has their £6k. ) However-go to any of the money shows and ask around- the profitable guys are the ones who are clever in stock selection and understand that shares are for the long term. I trade FTSE options which have a lifespan, so I don't need my own time horizon. I've only met profitable options traders.
So in my experience, knowing many like myself who tried full time to trade forex, personal evidence paints a clear picture.
I cannot post my website here but out of 160 trades(one every week) I think there are about 5 small losers. Not because I'm good, but because options allow you to be wrong and still make money. I've been trading badly but profitably since the last century, and this is my experience. I wish everyone who tries to trade, my very best wishes and hope they can cut it. The odds, sadly are massively against them
 

cantagril

Senior member
2,546 634
The evidence speaks for itself unless you live under a rock- I think maybe 1% of Greg Seckers alumni have made a go of trading. There are other trainers.Every website warns that 80% of CFD traders are losers. ( They don't say what a winner is-presumably someone who still has their £6k. ) However-go to any of the money shows and ask around- the profitable guys are the ones who are clever in stock selection and understand that shares are for the long term. I trade FTSE options which have a lifespan, so I don't need my own time horizon. I've only met profitable options traders.
So in my experience, knowing many like myself who tried full time to trade forex, personal evidence paints a clear picture.
I cannot post my website here but out of 160 trades(one every week) I think there are about 5 small losers. Not because I'm good, but because options allow you to be wrong and still make money. I've been trading badly but profitably since the last century, and this is my experience. I wish everyone who tries to trade, my very best wishes and hope they can cut it. The odds, sadly are massively against them
Well, yes, up to a point. It is unfortunate that a lot of people DO indeed live under a rock though this tends to be a psychological/epistemological one rather than a slimy boulder. IMHO, the problem starts with not knowing what you don't know (or should know) and then deteriorates into endless repeating more or less the same things without actually learning or improving much.

I was extremely lucky that my very first foray into trading happened just after Big Bang and the guy who gave me the intro was an options trader. ...and the rest, as they say, is history. Suffice it to say that had things been very slightly different I would probably be doing exactly what the 80% do rather than drifting back toward the loving arms of your pals Myron and Fischer.

That said, the shop where I traded (arcade/prop) included some really suicidal and noisy futures traders who seemed to spend a lot of the day in the toilet snorting Beecham's powders - or so it looked - and some much quieter guys who cleaned up using all sorts of different strategies ......but options were definitely in the minority.
 

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