Inflation tax

new_trader said:
1) Fixed means limited supply right? So, unless a huge gold filled asteroid lands (gently) on earth, or we develop the technology to mine near earth asteroids, the amount of gold is fixed. Right? So, gold is fixed and Bitcoins are fixed. They are EXACTLY the same in that respect. Right?
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No , we know the exact amount of bitcoin , whats the exact amount of gold ?
 
price777999 said:
No , we know the exact amount of bitcoin , whats the exact amount of gold ?
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This is my last post for tonight...I can't believe you even asked that question!

I don't know what the exact amount of gold is, but I know that not much new gold is falling on earth on a daily basis. I also know that there are no nearby stars exploding and scattering new gold on earth. So, however much gold there is in the Earths crust when it was formed 4.5 Billion years ago is pretty much the amount there still is today. Do you understand? If you disagree, tell me how you think new gold, ie/brand new gold is growing in the earth. Where is it coming from?

FFS...a good educator...I don't have the patience for this...this is hard work!!!
 
new_trader said:
FFS...a good educator...I don't have the patience for this...this is hard work!!!
Click to expand...
Don't know too many others still drumming it in at nearly 22:00.

Estimates of mined gold stock very, but there is consensus for around 170,000 tonnes (Thomson Reuters GFMS) as of 2012. The Geological Survey estimates there is just over 50,000 tonnes available to be mined with current technology, but that data is disputed from just about all possible angles.

Current mining produces an additional 2,500 tonnes annually (which makes the Geological Survey data for total available to be mined even weaker).

What's more of an issue is the consumption of gold. All the stuff mined up the current age has been recycled so any gold you have probably contains gold mined at various points through history. This has been almost loss-less recycling - until the current technological age. With gold being used for technological-industrial uses in components from which it is not commercially viable to recycle the gold we are losing around 12% of the annual production.

So net increase of mined gold stock on an annual basis is around +1.2%.
 
price777999 said:
Is Inflation the most efficient form of tax ?

For example we print money to build schools ,hospitals,roads ,etc.Then we have a tax free , free market economy, eliminating the need for accountants and therefor being more efficient .
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Interesting stuff! At first thought it could be brutally efficient, the 'tax' burden in theory would be shared equally,wed all have the benefit of the new infrastructure.
Have you given any thought the cons of such a system?

Well done for not buckling under the gold dimension btw!
 
darktone said:
Interesting stuff! At first thought it could be brutally efficient, the 'tax' burden in theory would be shared equally,wed all have the benefit of the new infrastructure.
Have you given any thought the cons of such a system?

Well done for not buckling under the gold dimension btw!
Click to expand...

Yes, we'd all have the benefit of new infrastructure and someone else would have all the benefit of...pieces of Government paper! All we need to do is find someone stupid enough to accept the deal. We get real, useful things, they get bits of Government paper. The problem is, if it was so simple just to get things by printing paper money, what would be the incentive to work?

Hasn't anyone here been paying attention to what is happening in the REAL world?

Cyprus is being asked to sell its GOLD to pay for the bailout. If it was a matter of just printing money, why not just give Cyprus a printing press instead and they could print whatever they need, right?

However, this was never about gold, it is about productivity and work. Something I've not been able to make Darktone or price777999 understand.

I've given up trying to convince them that money (In whatever form) must come from the market in order to have value.

Now it is up to them to convince me of their idea that "Printing money" is efficient.

My Questions:

1) How does a country end up with a trade deficit?
2) How does a country end up with debt?


I feel like I'm in the Twilight Zone here...I think Governments must get ALL the credit for being the best educators. The way they have convinced people that their fiat money is the best...amazing.
 
 
new_trader said:
1) Fixed means limited supply right? So, unless a huge gold filled asteroid lands (gently) on earth, or we develop the technology to mine near earth asteroids, the amount of gold is fixed. Right? So, gold is fixed and Bitcoins are fixed. They are EXACTLY the same in that respect. Right?
Click to expand...

Gold is steadily inflated by mining ,correct ?

When all the gold has been mined it will cause deflation in a gold standard economy ,correct ?

Yes they are both fixed but while they are still being mined they are being inflated ,therefor deflation has not yet been tested on an economy ...

You say deflation is good for an economy but that is just speculation ,and what about hyper deflation ?... are you saying this could never happen on a gold standard ?

The difference with bitcoin is we will be able to see when the limit is reached (21 million)

You could be running around the planet for years trying to find gold after it has depleted ....is this efficient ?
 
price777999 said:
Gold is steadily inflated by mining ,correct ?

When all the gold has been mined it will cause deflation in a gold standard economy ,correct ?

Yes they are both fixed but while they are still being mined they are being inflated ,therefor deflation has not yet been tested on an economy ...

You say deflation is good for an economy but that is just speculation ,and what about hyper deflation ?... are you saying this could never happen on a gold standard ?

The difference with bitcoin is we will be able to see when the limit is reached (21 million)

You could be running around the planet for years trying to find gold after it has depleted ....is this efficient ?
Click to expand...

I told you, it makes no difference to me what we use as money as long as the following conditions are met:

1) Its value comes from the free-market and NOT from Government legal tender laws.
2) The Government doesn't have a monopoly on the supply of the money.

I have no problem at all if Bitcoin outcompetes our current fiat money system and becomes the worlds money. So it is pointless trying to debate the issue with me.

What you need to explain is why you now like bitcoins when at first you said:

For example we print money to build schools ,hospitals,roads ,etc.Then we have a tax free , free market economy, eliminating the need for accountants and therefor being more efficient .
Click to expand...

Have you now changed your mind?

If not, explain how a Government can print money to build schools while the rest of the economy is using bitcoins.
 
darktone said:
Have you given any thought the cons of such a system?

Well done for not buckling under the gold dimension btw!
Click to expand...

Yes , of course many possible cons and i'm not even saying we need a tax system at all .Like I said before , privatizing everything and having a tax free fixed monetary system may be the ultimate economy ?

I just came up with the idea as every country already has inflation so why not try and use it positively ?

But whatever, the monetary system needs to be rewritten so the people can understand it and not be abused by it .....the gold standard written in to the US constitution was not good enough ,it didn't work,the people did not notice the change to fiat ...there should have been a revolution.
 
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price777999 said:
Yes , of course many possible cons and i'm not even saying we need a tax system atoll .Like I said before , privatizing everything and having a tax free fixed monetary system may be the ultimate economy ?

I just came up with the idea as every country already has inflation so why not try and use it positively ?

But whatever, the monetary system needs to be rewritten so the people can understand it and not be abused by it .....the gold standard written in to the US constitution was not good enough ,it didn't work,the people did not notice the change to fiat ...there should have been a revolution.
Click to expand...

You don't understand what you are talking about, at all. You haven't got the slightest idea what inflation is, that is obvious.
 
new_trader said:
I told you, it makes no difference to me what we use as money as long as the following conditions are met:

1) Its value comes from the free-market and NOT from Government legal tender laws.
2) The Government doesn't have a monopoly on the supply of the money.
Click to expand...

Yes I agree, but what if the people could decide the direction of the money supply....and the amount printed was decided by a vote ? ....like a true democracy?

new_trader said:
I have no problem at all if Bitcoin outcompetes our current fiat money system and becomes the worlds money. So it is pointless trying to debate the issue with me.

What you need to explain is why you now like bitcoins when at first you said:



Have you now changed your mind?

If not, explain how a Government can print money to build schools while the rest of the economy is using bitcoins.
Click to expand...

I assumed that if a government ever did start to use bitcoin they would eventually try to inflate it, so why not create a robust tax inflation system first, to preempt any attempts of corruption.

I am speculating , the opening thread was a question ,NOT a statement !
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by price777999
When new gold is mined, is gold inflated ?

''The money supply is increased at a gentle rate, yes, This is around a steady 2-3%/year. However, as I have explained, it requires LAND, LABOUR AND CAPITAL to mine new gold. This is productivity. Just like ALL OTHER GOODS AND SERVICES.''

I thought we already agreed on this ?
 
price777999 said:
Look at the energy that goes into mining gold ,the lose of life ,the pollution.

Look at the energy that goes into mining bitcoin.
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And where does the electricity that powers the computers that mine the bitcoins come from? Does that come from a magical printing press or does it come from poor b4stards that have to mine coal and drill for oil? Let me guess, in your magical twilight zone world, bitcoins come from free energy somehow...

I can't wait to read your reply...this thread is now officially LULZ.
 
price777999 said:
Yes , of course many possible cons and i'm not even saying we need a tax system at all .Like I said before , privatizing everything and having a tax free fixed monetary system may be the ultimate economy ?

I just came up with the idea as every country already has inflation so why not try and use it positively ?

But whatever, the monetary system needs to be rewritten so the people can understand it and not be abused by it .....the gold standard written in to the US constitution was not good enough ,it didn't work,the people did not notice the change to fiat ...there should have been a revolution.
Click to expand...

Well i like the idea in general. I do think you have to have some control of the money supply though, just in case a group of disgruntled individuals decided to hoard or supply.
The bit in bold i particularly like!
 
new_trader said:
And where does the electricity that powers the computers that mine the bitcoins come from? Does that come from a magical printing press or does it come from poor b4stards that have to mine coal and drill for oil? Let me guess, in your magical twilight zone world, bitcoins come from free energy somehow...

I can't wait to read your reply...this thread is now officially LULZ.
Click to expand...

Which takes less energy to create bitcoin or gold ?
 
 
price777999 said:
Which takes less energy to create bitcoin or gold ?
Click to expand...

I have no idea, YOU are the one who raised the point so it's up to you to provide the facts. How much energy is used mining gold worldwide and how many people die?


However, this is the more interesting question I'd like you to answer:

The U.K needs to import energy because it uses more than it can produce. It has to import many things in fact, from other countries.

My question is this: Why would a country like Norway export Oil to the UK in exchange for bitcoins when Norway can mine its own bitcoins?
 
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