IG Index - you've been warned!!!

[maudy]

At around 1.45pm yesterday I went into my IG Index account to see if the orders I had placed at just after 9am had been executed. The details of these were:
1) Buy as the price comes up to 5624.3, with a win limit of 15 points and a stop loss of 10 points
2) As above but a win limit of 20 points and a stop loss of 10 points

My starting balance was just over €1,000 and both of the above were to be executed at €7.50 per point

Imagine my horror/disgust when I found that both positions had been filled(at 5624.3, exactly the price I ordered) and stopped out at prices of 5527 and 5528, meaning a loss of nearly 100 points on each!!! Not only did this wipe my balance but it also created a lovely situation where I am now deemed to owe them a further €400+

Of course, they tried to fob me off with the old 'slippage' thing and that I should have paid for guaranteed stop losses to fulfill my requirements, the markets moved too quickly, etc....but slippage of nearly 90 points per trade in an open, liquid market!!!!

To add insult to injury, when checking through the chart data on a tick by tick basis I found the following:

1) the market moved quickly up and then back down again. The price sequence went like this:

5591.5 5589.3 5602 5624.5(where it opened my order) 5622.8 5627 5640 5637 5638.5 5643.3 5643.5 5621 5596.3...
So to add insult to injury, my 15 point limit was actually reached(winning trade), although my 20 point limit was nearly, but not quite reached

2) To arrive at their famous stop-out prices of nearly 100 points loss(the lowest they could find, see below for details) the following sequence occurred:

cont from above prices...5599.3 5574 5563.5 5564.8 5566.3 5560.5 5559 5552 5557.8 5553 5560 5554.3 5546 5529.3 5530 5537.3 5529 5527.5 5528.5 5528.8 5531.5 5532 5533 5535.5 5537 5538.3 5534.3 5536
So in this situation, there were many ticks prior to closing my position which would have led to significantly lower losses, had they done their job properly

I would really appreciate your help on this as I feel robbed and let down by this company, who are yet to come back to me with a reasonable solution which involves compromise. As a new customer of theirs they give me the impression that they don't give a sh1t about where the money comes from as long as they are making it. The only 2 compromises I have offered them are:
a) to reverse trade 1) into a rightful winning strategy of 15 points, and allow them to treat trade 2) as a loser, but with a much lower stop out
b) that both trades should be cancelled as if they did not happen

I may come across as a bit naive, stupid, or a combination of both here but surely this shouldnt be accepted, by me or anybody else who finds themselves in this situation. As far as I am concerned, my belief is that these companies have an attitude of 'thanks for your money, close the door on the way out - and leave us a bit more for the privelege!!!'

 

[dc2000]

I take it this is the DAX what are the time stamps on the trades and stops?

I dont have spreadbet chart but on DAX I could see slippage around 18 points on your 10 point stop.
It seems a hell of an age between the stops becoming market orders and being filled.

the stops were definitely set at 10 ? no fat finger extra zeros by accident?

 

[pboyles]

At around 1.45pm yesterday I went into my IG Index account to see if the orders I had placed at just after 9am had been executed. The details of these were:
1) Buy as the price comes up to 5624.3, with a win limit of 15 points and a stop loss of 10 points
2) As above but a win limit of 20 points and a stop loss of 10 points

My starting balance was just over €1,000 and both of the above were to be executed at €7.50 per point

Imagine my horror/disgust when I found that both positions had been filled(at 5624.3, exactly the price I ordered) and stopped out at prices of 5527 and 5528, meaning a loss of nearly 100 points on each!!! Not only did this wipe my balance but it also created a lovely situation where I am now deemed to owe them a further €400+

Of course, they tried to fob me off with the old 'slippage' thing and that I should have paid for guaranteed stop losses to fulfill my requirements, the markets moved too quickly, etc....but slippage of nearly 90 points per trade in an open, liquid market!!!!

To add insult to injury, when checking through the chart data on a tick by tick basis I found the following:

1) the market moved quickly up and then back down again. The price sequence went like this:

5591.5 5589.3 5602 5624.5(where it opened my order) 5622.8 5627 5640 5637 5638.5 5643.3 5643.5 5621 5596.3...
So to add insult to injury, my 15 point limit was actually reached(winning trade), although my 20 point limit was nearly, but not quite reached

2) To arrive at their famous stop-out prices of nearly 100 points loss(the lowest they could find, see below for details) the following sequence occurred:

cont from above prices...5599.3 5574 5563.5 5564.8 5566.3 5560.5 5559 5552 5557.8 5553 5560 5554.3 5546 5529.3 5530 5537.3 5529 5527.5 5528.5 5528.8 5531.5 5532 5533 5535.5 5537 5538.3 5534.3 5536
So in this situation, there were many ticks prior to closing my position which would have led to significantly lower losses, had they done their job properly

I would really appreciate your help on this as I feel robbed and let down by this company, who are yet to come back to me with a reasonable solution which involves compromise. As a new customer of theirs they give me the impression that they don't give a sh1t about where the money comes from as long as they are making it. The only 2 compromises I have offered them are:
a) to reverse trade 1) into a rightful winning strategy of 15 points, and allow them to treat trade 2) as a loser, but with a much lower stop out
b) that both trades should be cancelled as if they did not happen

I may come across as a bit naive, stupid, or a combination of both here but surely this shouldnt be accepted, by me or anybody else who finds themselves in this situation. As far as I am concerned, my belief is that these companies have an attitude of 'thanks for your money, close the door on the way out - and leave us a bit more for the privelege!!!'

This is what happens when you spreadbet, they will take every opportunity they can to rip you off. Looks like you should take option B and then close your account before any more damage is done, that would be a cheap lesson.

 

[maudy]

I take it this is the DAX what are the time stamps on the trades and stops?

I dont have spreadbet chart but on DAX I could see slippage around 18 points on your 10 point stop.
It seems a hell of an age between the stops becoming market orders and being filled.

the stops were definitely set at 10 ? no fat finger extra zeros by accident?

Hi dc,

Yes it is the DAX Daily market(sorry, forgot to mention that!).

The stops and limits were set exactly like I said and I have evidence of these in my account history, which includes orders. They even confirmed that these stop orders were set up correctly, yet see it as MY problem because I didnt pay for guranteed stops and this massive slippage isnormal practice in a fast moving market!!!!

 

[maudy]

This is what happens when you spreadbet, they will take every opportunity they can to rip you off. Looks like you should take option B and then close your account before any more damage is done, that would be a cheap lesson.

Hi P Boyles,

Unfortunately, the 2 options I mentioned are the only compromises that I have put to them! Of course, at this stage there is no compromise on their part and they want me to give them over €400 before closing my account!

 

[pboyles]

Hi P Boyles,

Unfortunately, the 2 options I mentioned are the only compromises that I have put to them! Of course, at this stage there is no compromise on their part and they want me to give them over €400 before closing my account!

I was thinking that was a generous offer they had made, now I understand.

 

[alan5616]

Hi P Boyles,

Unfortunately, the 2 options I mentioned are the only compromises that I have put to them! Of course, at this stage there is no compromise on their part and they want me to give them over €400 before closing my account!

A friend of mine had an account wIth IG, for many years, until recently. According to him, the slippage on his trades got worse and worse so, he closed the account.

Until one of the government agencies begins investigating SB companies, they will continue to defraud their clients. Once a few of them have had their bookmaker's licence revoked, only then will things change. In the mean time, they will continue to rip clients off, safe in the knowledge that they are fireproof. If only the FSA, here, would take the type of action against SB Cos, that the NFA took against FXCM and Gain Capital in the USA. It's long, long overdue

 

[pboyles]

Until one of the government agencies begins investigating SB companies, they will continue to defraud their clients. Once a few of them have had their bookmaker's licence revoked, only then will things change. In the mean time, they will continue to rip clients off, safe in the knowledge that they are fireproof. If only the FSA, here, would take the type of action against SB Cos, that the NFA took against FXCM and Gain Capital in the USA. It's long, long overdue

Agreed, it has now been proved how corrupt the retail FX industry is, I'm sure there are more fines to come. Spreadbetting remains a free for all but it cant last forever, the only thing saving them at the minute is that they dont operate in the US and therefore are not subject to the sort of investigations that FX companies are. Its coming sooner or later though.

 

[Splitlink]

I've traded with IG and moved on, although am still with SBs. IG was the first and they, still, have that reputation of being the best although, IMO, that is not the case.

I have been with Finspreads for ages. They have their problems, site crashes with "Phone Only" instructions but, I can honestly say, that orders have always been applied and, although they have guarantee orders, I've never felt the need to use them.

I did screen shot the attachement on the 26th. It was a very hectic period and I spotted the discrepancy between their chart and their quotes. I had the intention of asking them why the difference, but as it did not affect me, I left it. I print it here for others to observe that they have to keep their eyes open during spikey periods. Manual trading is, definitely, out, because of their "prices have moved in the last 30 seconds" box.

There can be no doubt, though, that Fins were quoting exactly 20 points below the chart. Why "exactly"? It seems suspicious to me and nothing to do with fills, slippage or anything else.

 

[Lightning McQueen]

the volatility that triggered the trade is shown clearly on slm, ig and fxcm (demo), i couldn't look at etx as they down for maintainance. the best view of it is on a 1 sec ig chart, hits op trade trigger and drops down to the price close out in a 1 sec bar. surely this isn't unfair slippage?

if you are setting orders and walking away then a valuable lesson here is surely to use the guaranteed stop if the sb broker has them.

this is similar in ilk to all the "i lost 25k" and "it's not my fault" and "i've been shafted" threads

sorry if i'm negative about it maudy. i do sympathise with your loss, pick yourself up, dust yourself down and go again safely, with a revised plan

 

[dc2000]

Hi dc,

Yes it is the DAX Daily market(sorry, forgot to mention that!).

The stops and limits were set exactly like I said and I have evidence of these in my account history, which includes orders. They even confirmed that these stop orders were set up correctly, yet see it as MY problem because I didnt pay for guranteed stops and this massive slippage isnormal practice in a fast moving market!!!!

firstly I would contact the FSA you wont get much joy but its worth letting them know then quite simply let I G take you to court or you could take them either way it wont happen as they would have to provide evidence of why and how and they would have to prove that any limit or market orders to buy placed at 5614.3 were also given a 100 point improvement

personally I would seek legal advice. whilst Im sure the terms have clients on the backfoot the negative impact of any publicity is likely to cost more than cancelling your trades

 

[tar]

the volatility that triggered the trade is shown clearly on slm, ig and fxcm (demo), i couldn't look at etx as they down for maintainance. the best view of it is on a 1 sec ig chart, hits op trade trigger and drops down to the price close out in a 1 sec bar. surely this isn't unfair slippage?

if you are setting orders and walking away then a valuable lesson here is surely to use the guaranteed stop if the sb broker has them.

this is similar in ilk to all the "i lost 25k" and "it's not my fault" and "i've been shafted" threads

sorry if i'm negative about it maudy. i do sympathise with your loss, pick yourself up, dust yourself down and go again safely, with a revised plan

Agree , he was robbed by Non farm payrolls typical whipsaw action , It is his responsibility to be more reasonable and cautions around such economic figures especially NFP friday .

 

[jesteruk]

You took an equivalent £85 grand position size in a market with only £1000 in your account and no guaranteed stop! Unless this was part of a larger account which you were keeping elsewhere then I have to say your actions were to say the least not very sensible! You were lucky it was 100 points. What if there was a flash crash leaving the market down 5 or 10% with a big gap

 

[Splitlink]

firstly I would contact the FSA you wont get much joy but its worth letting them know then quite simply let I G take you to court or you could take them either way it wont happen as they would have to provide evidence of why and how and they would have to prove that any limit or market orders to buy placed at 5614.3 were also given a 100 point improvement

personally I would seek legal advice. whilst Im sure the terms have clients on the backfoot the negative impact of any publicity is likely to cost more than cancelling your trades

Legal advice? I'm afraid that this is the grey area where a 400 hundred pound dispute will get eaten in costs. Don't throw good money after bad. Close the account and go somewhere else because, even if it does not happen again, you will not trust them when large sums are involved.

 

[bbmac]

a straddle on the U.s Nfp was a wholly niaive way to play it...it has been clear for some time now (many many months) that the market reaction to the report is not as it used to be, (ie generally a solid one directional move) and the market's indecision is reflected in this post data whipsawing.

If there was a ever a time when bad practice's sby SB's could be disguised/mitigated by extreme market volatility - the NFP release is it .

Bad Luck.

 

[Lightning McQueen]

Agree , he was robbed by Non farm payrolls typical whipsaw action , It is his responsibility to be more reasonable and cautions around such economic figures especially NFP friday .

nice one tar

and there endeth the lesson!

 

[tar]

Maudy read this thread , long 200p/p on the Ftse at the heart of the credit crisis , no stop loss in place , only 2k in account balance and 5k in credit limit , he ends with a negative balance of 92K pounds !

http://www.trade2win.com/boards/spread-betting/45904-spreadbetting-ig-complaint.html

 

[pboyles]

Amazing how I was able to get in and out of the ES several times just after the release with no slippage. But then I wasn't trading against a bookie. The lesson here is don't spreadbet.

 

[gle101]

I've traded with IG and moved on, although am still with SBs. IG was the first and they, still, have that reputation of being the best although, IMO, that is not the case.

I have been with Finspreads for ages. They have their problems, site crashes with "Phone Only" instructions but, I can honestly say, that orders have always been applied and, although they have guarantee orders, I've never felt the need to use them.

I did screen shot the attachement on the 26th. It was a very hectic period and I spotted the discrepancy between their chart and their quotes. I had the intention of asking them why the difference, but as it did not affect me, I left it. I print it here for others to observe that they have to keep their eyes open during spikey periods. Manual trading is, definitely, out, because of their "prices have moved in the last 30 seconds" box.

There can be no doubt, though, that Fins were quoting exactly 20 points below the chart. Why "exactly"? It seems suspicious to me and nothing to do with fills, slippage or anything else.

Yes I agree, Cityindex (Finspreads) execution on stop loss orders are spotless. But how do you cope with not having a user predefine stop loss in points? A big source for error and risk in my opinion. I still trade with them but starting to have second doubts.

 

[gle101]

Amazing how I was able to get in and out of the ES several times just after the release with no slippage. But then I wasn't trading against a bookie. The lesson here is don't spreadbet.

Which one is more liquid? There you have the answer.