I want volume (spot vs futures)

[wasp]

Hi,

I have come to the conclusion that the final missing peg in my trading is volume.

As a spot FX trader, I do not have it so my question is.........

Anyone tried spot and futures and can tell me if there are any major differences between the two? (that may hindrance my trading rather than enhance with volume)... ie liquidity, size, brokers, spreads, hours etc....

Cheers

 

[wasp]

Okay, I am guilty of not searching and just seen all the threads at the bottom! :innocent:

 

[wasp]

1. Less liquidity
2. Only a few currency pairs are actually available.

___________________

less position size flexibility since futures lot sizes are fixed and larger than what can be had in the spot market.

Also, total transactions costs could be higher given commission + spread (yes, there are spreads in the futures market, just like every other one).

___________________

Okay, looks like a dead end. Shame, volume would have been nice to have

 

[wasp]

I assume futures volume on a spot FX chart doesn't really work!

 

[VingTsunKuen]

I think so because it is not the same market(interbank market).
Although i can turn on volume on MT4 this is just a volume of interbank FX,mine broker.
As it is not the whole market it is pretty useless..
Regards,
VingTsunKuen

 

[littlemog]

They actually show the volume? Wow... that's new to me. I never thought of volume when it comes to FX ... just assume it was never possible at all. Would seeing the volume in ur broker bring up some useful info though? I wonder...

 

[options]

Well this will start a war!


Volume bars at the bottom of a chart are useless nowadays as volume bars lie. Or More importantly, are made to lie!

And are no better indicator than anything else you can think of!

 

[VingTsunKuen]

They actually show the volume? Wow... that's new to me.

It is just a volume of transactions that has gone through their server(Interbank FX)
So basically it is a crap,you can not use it as valid information.
And i think that it will be a looong time before we can see whole spot market volume as there is no clearing house and who in the whole world could count such huge amount of orders in the market which follows the Sun??

sweepylongbananafiend,just a thought!If you are long term trader you could use COT report(Commitment of Traders)to see volume and how many bulls and bears are out there,could you.:?::!:

 

[wasp]

It is just a volume of transactions that has gone through their server(Interbank FX)
So basically it is a crap,you can not use it as valid information.
And i think that it will be a looong time before we can see whole spot market volume as there is no clearing house and who in the whole world could count such huge amount of orders in the market which follows the Sun??

sweepylongbananafiend,just a thought!If you are long term trader you could use COT report(Commitment of Traders)to see volume and how many bulls and bears are out there,could you.:?::!:

Nah, it was more for the short term view, bar by bar so not really that helpful as I am a swing/day trader.

 

[wasp]

FXMarketSpace Home

Been on another forum and told the liquidity is good these days and the links below are quite old.......

As for ''options'' comment, that would then bugger everything I guess!

Anyone know where I can obtain fx futures charts?

 

[MrGecko]

this has been covered over and over...

Volume in the FX market is unnattainable. "tick volume" is often touted as a proxy for interbank volumes, but for various reasons it is totally useless. Interbank desk may well have a record of the volume going through their books, but any such information is going to be proprietary, and so they will want to keep it close to their chests I would think. They certainly wont hand it out to retail the retail market for free.

IMO, if one is going to trade FX, one should stick to Price Action (or technical indicators if so inclined) with Support and Resistance alone. Done properly, it's enough. There are a whole host of things that interbank traders know about that retail traders don't: Option barriers, fixings, orders in the book, order flow, long/short gamma, forward and swap prices, and so on and so on. Not only are these out of reach for retail traders, even if they were available, putting it to good use is a whole other kettle of fish.

Open, High, Low and Close are the only reliable data available to the retail market, so they should be the only thing used to interpret the PA and generate trade ideas.

All IMHO of course.

 

[wasp]

this has been covered over and over...

Volume in the FX market is unnattainable. "tick volume" is often touted as a proxy for interbank volumes, but for various reasons it is totally useless. Interbank desk may well have a record of the volume going through their books, but any such information is going to be proprietary, and so they will want to keep it close to their chests I would think. They certainly wont hand it out to retail the retail market for free.

IMO, if one is going to trade FX, one should stick to Price Action (or technical indicators if so inclined) with Support and Resistance alone. Done properly, it's enough. There are a whole host of things that interbank traders know about that retail traders don't: Option barriers, fixings, orders in the book, order flow, long/short gamma, forward and swap prices, and so on and so on. Not only are these out of reach for retail traders, even if they were available, putting it to good use is a whole other kettle of fish.

Open, High, Low and Close are the only reliable data available to the retail market, so they should be the only thing used to interpret the PA and generate trade ideas.

All IMHO of course.

Yes, totally agree, in spot, but what about futures?

 

[MrGecko]

Have to say I've never looked into the futures in much detail;

for Futures vs. Spot in the retail environment, I land firmly on the spot side of the fence for reasons outlined elsewhere (some of which yoiu have already mentioned).

The crux of the issue, I believe, is, for the retail market, "what measures of volume are available, and how useful are they?" Given that tick volume has been defenestrated, we are left with the futures volume...

I raise an issue regarding market participants: Interbank desks, if not trading spot, probably use forwards as opposed to exchange traded futures. I don't expect that there is the liquidity and depth of market on the futures to satisfy the requirements of wholesale deal sizes - perhaps we can infer, then, that the participants in the futures are not participants in the interbank spot market (obviously there will be exceptions, but on the whole...); it follows that the volume going through the futures is that of FCM's, prop firms etc... those who do not have access to the OTC market - i.e. those who do not participate in the buying and selling that determines the spot price.

I mean, in practical terms, sure, I expect that there will be some +ve correlation between the spot and futures market volumes. But the futures market is a different one to the spot / forward market (where the real money is), that drives the prices the futures follow. So big volume selling / buying in the spot may affect futures prices, but the reverse cannot be said. Am I making any sense?

Given all that, I still dont know how useful it would be (futures volume that it).

 

[littlemog]

True... well you'll think that by now we should be able to do that... damn Gates...

It is just a volume of transactions that has gone through their server(Interbank FX)
So basically it is a crap,you can not use it as valid information.
And i think that it will be a looong time before we can see whole spot market volume as there is no clearing house and who in the whole world could count such huge amount of orders in the market which follows the Sun??

sweepylongbananafiend,just a thought!If you are long term trader you could use COT report(Commitment of Traders)to see volume and how many bulls and bears are out there,could you.:?::!:

 

[wasp]

Have to say I've never looked into the futures in much detail;

for Futures vs. Spot in the retail environment, I land firmly on the spot side of the fence for reasons outlined elsewhere (some of which yoiu have already mentioned).

The crux of the issue, I believe, is, for the retail market, "what measures of volume are available, and how useful are they?" Given that tick volume has been defenestrated, we are left with the futures volume...

I raise an issue regarding market participants: Interbank desks, if not trading spot, probably use forwards as opposed to exchange traded futures. I don't expect that there is the liquidity and depth of market on the futures to satisfy the requirements of wholesale deal sizes - perhaps we can infer, then, that the participants in the futures are not participants in the interbank spot market (obviously there will be exceptions, but on the whole...); it follows that the volume going through the futures is that of FCM's, prop firms etc... those who do not have access to the OTC market - i.e. those who do not participate in the buying and selling that determines the spot price.

I mean, in practical terms, sure, I expect that there will be some +ve correlation between the spot and futures market volumes. But the futures market is a different one to the spot / forward market (where the real money is), that drives the prices the futures follow. So big volume selling / buying in the spot may affect futures prices, but the reverse cannot be said. Am I making any sense?

Given all that, I still dont know how useful it would be (futures volume that it).

That's great, just the sort of answer I was hoping for and help me decide.

EOD, the liquidity alone is enough to dissuade me even if the volume might help and that is still the issue too, if it would help.

As you said, I think I will stick with OHLC and S/R and deal with it!

 

[Jack o'Clubs]

That's great, just the sort of answer I was hoping for and help me decide.

EOD, the liquidity alone is enough to dissuade me even if the volume might help and that is still the issue too, if it would help.

As you said, I think I will stick with OHLC and S/R and deal with it!

Sweepy,

I had some problems replying to your message and then managed to delete it before I could note your details - please send again if you had a specific question - happy to help.

But in short I agree with Mr Gecko's post - I wouldn't treat the volume figures for the futures with enormous reverence as I feel they follow spot rather than vice versa. I can't speak with authority as although I used forex futures, volume has never been an indicator I've focussed much on - my interest was just in the fact that you are dealing in a true two way market and the liquidity is sufficiently massive on the major USD pairs that you never have problems getting 1-tick spreads and fills.

All the best,

Jo'C.

 

[wasp]

Sweepy,

I had some problems replying to your message and then managed to delete it before I could note your details - please send again if you had a specific question - happy to help.

But in short I agree with Mr Gecko's post - I wouldn't treat the volume figures for the futures with enormous reverence as I feel they follow spot rather than vice versa. I can't speak with authority as although I used forex futures, volume has never been an indicator I've focussed much on - my interest was just in the fact that you are dealing in a true two way market and the liquidity is sufficiently massive on the major USD pairs that you never have problems getting 1-tick spreads and fills.

All the best,

Jo'C.

Cheers for that, much appreciated.

 

[henry766]

Dear Sweepy , there may be a spread in futures market , but it isn't like every other market , inparticuler the spot market where the spread is a true cost , in the futures market the spread is about parties bargaining the price , the spread doesn't cost the market anything , some traders will lose because of the spread but an equal number ( contracts wise atleast) will benefit , in fact some traders make quite a good living becuase of the spread in futures ( and other true markets), obviousley this is not the case in the spot markets .

 

[wasp]

Thanks Henry, appreciated... After a post or two from gammajammer I am going to stick with the spot market as it seems to be the dog rather than the tail. Cheers

 

[Bladerunner]

good post ~ you have been warned

Well this will start a war!


Volume bars at the bottom of a chart are useless nowadays as volume bars lie. Or More importantly, are made to lie!

And are no better indicator than anything else you can think of!

good post options

that is my experience

Real time volume bars are off

screen shot your platform on a few timeframes after an hour or so of a session

re log in (assuming you have history access) and check to be on the safe side, mine were well out, could be provider or data fault or anything

I did above over a couple of months

another thing I don"t trust

still got my paper and pencil

Andy