How to Avoid "Going on Tilt":

[mrsoul]

Greetings Fellow Traders,

"Going on Tilt" is a poker term which means making a series of horrible plays after either taking a bad loss or making a bad mistake.

Ones emotions start taking over and the trader is literally helpless to avoid making bad plays.

In trading, "Going on Tilt" is so powerful that it has wiped out many accounts.

The purpose of this thread is to identify what triggers traders to "Go on Tilt" and how one can get off Tilt IMMEDIATELY after going on Tilt.

I trade, play poker, and play chess.

"Going on Tilt" in chess happens often; howver, it is nowhere near as bad as "Going on Tilt" in poker. In poker, when a player goes on tilt his account is usually gone quickly.

Even worse than "Going on Tilt" in poker is "Going on Tilt" in trading.

When a trader goeson tilt, his account usually gets wiped out and wiped out fast.

Even with proper money management, and strict disciplines it is very easy to "Go on Tilt" after making bad mistakes .

I have found that a good way to get off tilt while tading is to reduce your size dramatically so it feels that you are not even trading. Then, gradually, as your mindset improves you can trade appropriate size. This helps to take all the emotions out of trading and restore rational thinking.

I also do an unusual thing to get off tilt. Let's say that I made a mistake and didn't take a winning trade, what I will do is put the money into my account equal to the amount of the winning trade. This helps me feel better, much better and enables my mind to think rationally again.

If I make a mistake by getting into a trade that I should not have, I, also, put the money back into my account, equal to the loss. This way I am completely off tilt and I can get back, rather easily, to my disciplines.

What are your thoughts and experiences?

 

[Vaco]

Poker is different to trading in that you have to make your decisions based on the habits of the other players at the table. This would be like trading on the fly. Trading a mechanical system removes this issue. The equivalent of playing 'abc' poker at lower stake games. The difference is that when you raise the stakes in trading the same abc system still works where as with poker you have to mix your game up a little if you move up the stakes.

As a daytrader you might encounter the problem of tilt and the advice is to normally quit for the day after 3 losers.

 

[mrsoul]

You are right. A 100% mechanical system, if followed rigidly, solves the problem of tilt.
It takes all the emotions out of the game.
This way you don't miss trades or get into wrong ones.
It's the only way to go.

Good Luck

 

[shadowninja]

I refer to it as the demon taking you. The only way to avoid it is to recognise the feelings and calm yourself down before taking a trade, knowing that missing out, taking a breather is your best option. The market is always there.

 

[mrsoul]

I refer to it as the demon taking you. The only way to avoid it is to recognise the feelings and calm yourself down before taking a trade, knowing that missing out, taking a breather is your best option. The market is always there.

Great Analogy!-lol

 

[counter_violent]

Pretty much everyone is capable of pushing the self destruct button and this powerful emotional state goes far beyond trading and poker. It can be found everywhere.

My cure for the trading scenario is a post it note on my screen which reads......

DON'T BE A T**T TODAY.

 

[Vaco]

Pretty much everyone is capable of pushing the self destruct button and this powerful emotional state goes far beyond trading and poker. It can be found everywhere.

My cure for the trading scenario is a post it note on my screen which reads......

DON'T BE A T**T TODAY.

very true,

football is another good example where you can see players/managers pressing the self destruct button, but in trading and poker you can easily wipe out half your account or more once you descend in to this madness, increasing size to make it back, averaging down, moving stops.

These are all the devils tricks to drain your account and drive you mad

 

[jon1971]

When a trader goeson tilt, his account usually gets wiped out and wiped out fast.

Even with proper money management, and strict disciplines it is very easy to "Go on Tilt" after making bad mistakes .

What are your thoughts and experiences?

My two cents:

After a bad loss, reduce position size by a half (experience the pain of the loss and view it as a learning experience. Avoid making the same mistake, rather than rushing to repeat it).

After two more consecutive losses (three in total), quit for the day. Would you rather miss 50 opportunities or take another loss? The market will still be there tomorrow with a million more opportunities.

Always remember that psychology is IMHO the number one factor influencing success or failure in trading. Always ensure you are entering a trade for the right psychological reasons.

 

[Lord Flasheart]

I lost so much on rogue trades I cant afford them anymore. All of my trades are carried out with military precision.For example one of them has four criterior to be met before I trade so its LEFT,RIGHT,LEFT,RIGHT ,trade. As soon as ive traded i fill in my log which doesnt have a columnfor rogue trades.

 

[jon1971]

All of my trades are carried out with military precision.For example one of them has four criterior to be met before I trade so its LEFT,RIGHT,LEFT,RIGHT ,trade.

It's the way forward, I've lost too much equity, taking trades on the fly, based on gut feel, with little or no preparation.

 

[mrsoul]

I lost so much on rogue trades I cant afford them anymore. All of my trades are carried out with military precision.For example one of them has four criterior to be met before I trade so its LEFT,RIGHT,LEFT,RIGHT ,trade. As soon as ive traded i fill in my log which doesnt have a columnfor rogue trades.

I like the way you put it: "carry out trades wth military precision".
This mindset gives you razor sharp execution because you ONLY enter the market
when ALL your criteria are met, so emotion does not enter your entry decision and there is NO ambiguity EVER entering the market.

"It's not return ON capital; it's return OF capital".

 

[mrsoul]

Pretty much everyone is capable of pushing the self destruct button and this powerful emotional state goes far beyond trading and poker. It can be found everywhere.

My cure for the trading scenario is a post it note on my screen which reads......

DON'T BE A T**T TODAY.

Good idea Counter!
I now have a post it on my desk, except it says: "Don't be a Twit".

Just looking at it keeps my mind very rational and reminds me to ONLY take the trades that I am looking for and PASS on all the rest.

 

[counter_violent]

My cure for the trading scenario is a post it note on my screen which reads......

DON'T BE A T**T TODAY.

DON'T BE A T**T TODAY
..............TilT

:-0...what were you thinking ! :whistling :innocent:

 

[mrsoul]

DON'T BE A T**T TODAY
..............TilT

:-0...what were you thinking ! :whistling :innocent:

I thought you meant "Don't be a twat today"- a word I find vulgar.
Actually, I now have a new post it which says; "Don't be a tilt today"- tilt is even better than twit although twit is appropriate too.

 

[Adamus]

Admit your mistake to someone - anyone else. Psychologically, it will free your mind from the confined situation where the error occurred and bring your sense of reality back to a level where you can regain your objectivity and get back in control again.

If you are having particular difficulties with this, I would suggest walking to the bottom of your street and back with a large sandwich board declaring "I am a T**T"

 

[mrsoul]

Admit your mistake to someone - anyone else. Psychologically, it will free your mind from the confined situation where the error occurred and bring your sense of reality back to a level where you can regain your objectivity and get back in control again.

If you are having particular difficulties with this, I would suggest walking to the bottom of your street and back with a large sandwich board declaring "I am a T**T"

Agreed.
Talking to someone, especially a fellow trader, about mistakes helps release that bad emotional energy and realigns the mind back to its rational position.
That is one reason why t2w is very helpful.

 

[montmorencyt2w]

Admit your mistake to someone - anyone else. Psychologically, it will free your mind from the confined situation where the error occurred and bring your sense of reality back to a level where you can regain your objectivity and get back in control again.

If you are having particular difficulties with this, I would suggest walking to the bottom of your street and back with a large sandwich board declaring "I am a T**T"

That's rather interesting about "confessing" - a former teacher and now friend of mine who is a Catholic (as I was brought up to be, but no longer practice), told me that Catholics who go to confession had no need to go to psychiatrists. I don't know what evidence he had for this - maybe none, but it had a sort of common-sense ring of truth about it.

Don't know about the sandwich board, but just going for a good walk can be great for clearing the mind.

Mr Soul: do you play poker for serious stakes, if you don't mind my asking?
Can people make a regular income out of it?
(Don't worry - it's not something I plan to take up myself - I won't be tempted by a positive reply! ).

Cheers,
Mike

 

[mrsoul]

That's rather interesting about "confessing" - a former teacher and now friend of mine who is a Catholic (as I was brought up to be, but no longer practice), told me that Catholics who go to confession had no need to go to psychiatrists. I don't know what evidence he had for this - maybe none, but it had a sort of common-sense ring of truth about it.

Don't know about the sandwich board, but just going for a good walk can be great for clearing the mind.

Mr Soul: do you play poker for serious stakes, if you don't mind my asking?
Can people make a regular income out of it?
(Don't worry - it's not something I plan to take up myself - I won't be tempted by a positive reply! ).

Cheers,
Mike

Hey Mike,

I play poker for low-medium stakes: a few hundred here a few hundred there.
Poker is just a hobby and I play to win and have fun and I actually do okay.
It took me about a year to learn to play okay.
However, I just play on weekends because trading is my focus during the week.
My brother is a profssional poker player. He's been playing for about 5 years and does well.
He plays in the Vegas world series of poker all the time.
IMO, if you could make it trading or playing poker, you'd rather make it trading because the upside potential is substantially better.
If you're thinking of giving poker a shot, the best and biggest poker site is: pokerstars.com or pokerstars.net.
If you'd like to PM me to talk about this, trading, or anything else, I'd be happy to respond.

-Good Luck-
Michael

 

[Lord Flasheart]

There are many simularities between the two,but Id rather trade any day.There is much more consistancy and predictability. A poker player could go months and months without a decent draw,and that includes playing on line. A trader can back his own judgement whereas a poker player can never be sure. I was chip leader on late night poker,playing for £50k and got screwed two hands on trot when I was clear favorite to win. That doesnt happen in trading,youre right or wrong with no one else to blame

 

[mrsoul]

There are many simularities between the two,but Id rather trade any day.There is much more consistancy and predictability. A poker player could go months and months without a decent draw,and that includes playing on line. A trader can back his own judgement whereas a poker player can never be sure. I was chip leader on late night poker,playing for £50k and got screwed two hands on trot when I was clear favorite to win. That doesnt happen in trading,youre right or wrong with no one else to blame

Right On Julian.
You can't blame bad luck in trading!