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Want to bet on it Henry?
GameOver22
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Miki said:
No, trading is not gambling, simply look up the definitions.
You are not "placing a bet", you are buying shares in a company. If you are not aware of this, stop what you are doing!!!
mickandpete
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Having read your cloaked pleas for employment on your other thread I wonder if your response is yours or your "Mentors".GameOver22 said:
Despite many claims to the contary trading is a form of gambling.
Playing poker online successfully requires a considerable amount of skill (knowledge) and many traders would benefit from learning and employing the disciplines required to be profitable.
GameOver22
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MikeandPete,
Im not too sure how to take your post, as it was not worth writing. The response is fully mine, not my mentor.
Pleas for employment? I am just interested in my career options, as i would like a job in the stock field. I already work full time, thankyou.
"Despite many claims to the contary trading is a form of gambling", no. If you see YOUR trades as a gamble, ide say that you dont do so well, or you lose alot of money, you should never gamble. If you see your trades as a gamble, i think you are best advised to stop now, before your losses get out of hand.
"Playing poker online", not sure what poker has to do with buying shares, but poker is gambling, and you should only play it for fun! Or if you want to give money away.
Buying or selling shares is not gambling, some people buy shares just to be a share holder, other people buy shares to get the benefits of being a share holder, then they will sell the shares when they like, as they may not of been trying to make a profit, and some people buy shares to gain some control of the company, some people, like me, buy shares for long holds, for up to 2 years. People buy shares for lots and lots of different reasons.
The bank may not loan you 30,000 pounds, because they see you as a "risk". But they will pump millions of pounds into a stock, so, again, if you are seeing your trades as a gamble, please educate yourself further, or stop.
"Despite many claims to the contary trading is a form of gambling", to save you lots of time and hassle, simply look up the definition of "Gambling", and the definition of "Investing", and that solves that one.
Have a good day.
Thanks
Matt
Im not too sure how to take your post, as it was not worth writing. The response is fully mine, not my mentor.
Pleas for employment? I am just interested in my career options, as i would like a job in the stock field. I already work full time, thankyou.
"Despite many claims to the contary trading is a form of gambling", no. If you see YOUR trades as a gamble, ide say that you dont do so well, or you lose alot of money, you should never gamble. If you see your trades as a gamble, i think you are best advised to stop now, before your losses get out of hand.
"Playing poker online", not sure what poker has to do with buying shares, but poker is gambling, and you should only play it for fun! Or if you want to give money away.
Buying or selling shares is not gambling, some people buy shares just to be a share holder, other people buy shares to get the benefits of being a share holder, then they will sell the shares when they like, as they may not of been trying to make a profit, and some people buy shares to gain some control of the company, some people, like me, buy shares for long holds, for up to 2 years. People buy shares for lots and lots of different reasons.
The bank may not loan you 30,000 pounds, because they see you as a "risk". But they will pump millions of pounds into a stock, so, again, if you are seeing your trades as a gamble, please educate yourself further, or stop.
"Despite many claims to the contary trading is a form of gambling", to save you lots of time and hassle, simply look up the definition of "Gambling", and the definition of "Investing", and that solves that one.
Have a good day.
Thanks
Matt
Trader333
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How you see your trades is not relevent to the fact that it involves risk and risk means a gamble. Also your examples only talk of buying and selling shares but trading involves currencies, futures and many other instruments. The only time that risk does not involve gambling is when you engage in activities that have none. Personally I dont see what the problem is, I would have no issue with being called a professional gambler and I am sure many others wouldnt either.
Paul
DEFINITIONS? Don't tell me about gambling and the markets! If there was one person in each market who knew every twist and turn on every time frame, for definate,.......the markets would end!
The markets only exist through not knowing and opposite thought. The person in this world who is so absolute about the markets can only exist within certain times and markets.....for there is much unknowing.
Quote: Me!
Everybody who is anybody knows enough. But, not enough to rule in absolute. That is your character. The market thrives upon that, you do not know. How else would it work?
Quote: Me.
Now,.....tell me about not gambling?
Quote: Me.
Oh, and by the way. Unless you are a professional trader,........don't bother!
The markets only exist through not knowing and opposite thought. The person in this world who is so absolute about the markets can only exist within certain times and markets.....for there is much unknowing.
Quote: Me!
Everybody who is anybody knows enough. But, not enough to rule in absolute. That is your character. The market thrives upon that, you do not know. How else would it work?
Quote: Me.
Now,.....tell me about not gambling?
Quote: Me.
Oh, and by the way. Unless you are a professional trader,........don't bother!
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frugi
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Merged just for old times' sake you understand Rudeboy. A Happy New Year to you.
Aww bless
Trading and poker are both games of skill that involve probabilistic outcomes. Although "game" when applied to trading is a somewhat flippant term, as we are also talking about a relentless war for profits (also the case for professional pokerers ).
A Happy New Year to you.Aww bless
Trading and poker are both games of skill that involve probabilistic outcomes. Although "game" when applied to trading is a somewhat flippant term, as we are also talking about a relentless war for profits (also the case for professional pokerers
).Oh, and another thing. For all you spare bedroom traders out there? Who is under more pressure? How many catorgories can we split, let me start. Professional: It's not his money, but his second chance may not be as real as somebody who trades thier own money? I can see the answers now,.......but, who's money do you ever want to lose? You are good,.......or you are bad!
mickandpete
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The comparision with poker and trading may be closer than many think.
Taking the most popular form,Texas Hold Em.
Hands are made from 2 Hole cards unseen by the others, and 5 community cards, seen by all.
The ranking is the same as in all other forms of poker.
The chance of winning is basically determined by your hole cards.
After the hole cards (your entry) a round of betting determines if you play or fold,by betting higher (raising) you can manipulate the number of opponents you are opposing.
The next round is the " flop" 3 cards,if by now with your hole cards you have no chance of forming a decent hand it is very advisable to fold (close).
The last 2 cards are dealt one by one and a round of betting ensues after each is dealt.
Players either fold or a "show" is made to determine the winner.
I would suggest that this game mimicks closely all the requistes of a trader.
Knowing when to enter,having seen 5/7 of the cards determing wheither to continue, and then the same with the remaining cards.
The more knowledgible and expert the player,the more he will win in the long run.Of course there will be losing days,but overall the best player will win.
This comparison is amplified when in tournament play.
For example 200 mplayers start with the same amount of chips, play continues untill a player has lost his chips ,when he is "out".Play continues untill for example there are 30 left,where the payout starts, the lower the number left the higher the reward.
Defense in tournament play is vital, as once you are out,you are out.
You are only playing your opponents not a "house" all though a commision is payable to the provider or if you like a brokerage.
Taking the most popular form,Texas Hold Em.
Hands are made from 2 Hole cards unseen by the others, and 5 community cards, seen by all.
The ranking is the same as in all other forms of poker.
The chance of winning is basically determined by your hole cards.
After the hole cards (your entry) a round of betting determines if you play or fold,by betting higher (raising) you can manipulate the number of opponents you are opposing.
The next round is the " flop" 3 cards,if by now with your hole cards you have no chance of forming a decent hand it is very advisable to fold (close).
The last 2 cards are dealt one by one and a round of betting ensues after each is dealt.
Players either fold or a "show" is made to determine the winner.
I would suggest that this game mimicks closely all the requistes of a trader.
Knowing when to enter,having seen 5/7 of the cards determing wheither to continue, and then the same with the remaining cards.
The more knowledgible and expert the player,the more he will win in the long run.Of course there will be losing days,but overall the best player will win.
This comparison is amplified when in tournament play.
For example 200 mplayers start with the same amount of chips, play continues untill a player has lost his chips ,when he is "out".Play continues untill for example there are 30 left,where the payout starts, the lower the number left the higher the reward.
Defense in tournament play is vital, as once you are out,you are out.
You are only playing your opponents not a "house" all though a commision is payable to the provider or if you like a brokerage.
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GameOver22
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Hi
MikeandPete,
Your posts would have more credibility to me if i had not of clicked on your profile, then clicked view all posts by you, and saw that 95% of all your posts here feature negative comments.
It seems alot of you dont know what 'Gambling" is, and thats very worrying (not for me, as i will happily take your money lol).
Definition of "Gambling":
Gambling includes any money won playing slot machines, bingo, or the lottery. It also includes money derived from betting on horse races, boxing, sumo wrestlers.
Another definition:
"Gamble"
verb gambled, gambling
tr & intr
1. To bet (usually money) on the result of a card game, horse race, etc.
Thesaurus: bet, wager, stake, hazard, speculate, prospect.2. To lose (money or other assets) through gambling.
Form: gamble something away.
What im talking about it buying/selling shares only, as thats what i do, i have never traded Forex or anything else, i only ever buy shares for the long hold.
Yes, there is "risk" in stocks, in Forex, in what ever you trade. But, there is "risk" when you drive to a 9-5 in the morning, if you perform badly at your 9-5, theres a "risk" of you getting sacked. So risk is not my issue, i minimize that, like we all try to.
Yes, some of the same skills that we need to trade are used in other things, like poker, we even use skills from accounting, money management, and all sorts, that does not mean were accountants.
I dont know what to call Forex, but by definition, its not gambling, risk is involved, but its simply not gamling, i cant make it any clearer than i have already with two definitions for you.
Are you telling us that Malkom Glazior (who just brought Manchester UTD) is a gambler? No, he brought 90% of the shares so he could take control of the business and own the club (not that people wanted him to!).
I think some of you are getting confused with gambling, poker, Forex, i buy and sell shares, i know the definitions, and i know i would never gamble a penny, i would not even put 50p in a fruit machine, i dont like risk! I studied charts with a few mentors for almost a year before buying anything, all the charts work the same.
Thats what i meant, if your getting into a trade, and you see it as a gamble (which means, BETTING ON AN UNCERTAIN OUTCOME), then you should not be getting in it until you educate yourself more.
Thanks
Matt
MikeandPete,
Your posts would have more credibility to me if i had not of clicked on your profile, then clicked view all posts by you, and saw that 95% of all your posts here feature negative comments.
It seems alot of you dont know what 'Gambling" is, and thats very worrying (not for me, as i will happily take your money lol).
Definition of "Gambling":
Gambling includes any money won playing slot machines, bingo, or the lottery. It also includes money derived from betting on horse races, boxing, sumo wrestlers.
Another definition:
"Gamble"
verb gambled, gambling
tr & intr
1. To bet (usually money) on the result of a card game, horse race, etc.
Thesaurus: bet, wager, stake, hazard, speculate, prospect.2. To lose (money or other assets) through gambling.
Form: gamble something away.
What im talking about it buying/selling shares only, as thats what i do, i have never traded Forex or anything else, i only ever buy shares for the long hold.
Yes, there is "risk" in stocks, in Forex, in what ever you trade. But, there is "risk" when you drive to a 9-5 in the morning, if you perform badly at your 9-5, theres a "risk" of you getting sacked. So risk is not my issue, i minimize that, like we all try to.
Yes, some of the same skills that we need to trade are used in other things, like poker, we even use skills from accounting, money management, and all sorts, that does not mean were accountants.
I dont know what to call Forex, but by definition, its not gambling, risk is involved, but its simply not gamling, i cant make it any clearer than i have already with two definitions for you.
Are you telling us that Malkom Glazior (who just brought Manchester UTD) is a gambler? No, he brought 90% of the shares so he could take control of the business and own the club (not that people wanted him to!).
I think some of you are getting confused with gambling, poker, Forex, i buy and sell shares, i know the definitions, and i know i would never gamble a penny, i would not even put 50p in a fruit machine, i dont like risk! I studied charts with a few mentors for almost a year before buying anything, all the charts work the same.
Thats what i meant, if your getting into a trade, and you see it as a gamble (which means, BETTING ON AN UNCERTAIN OUTCOME), then you should not be getting in it until you educate yourself more.
Thanks
Matt
fxmarkets
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The markets are not a gamble, I view it, them, from a stance of observation to determine zones of trading risk which is favourable in terms of return relative to that risk over the next n periods of time or direction of price based on the (emotional) actions/activity of market participants which will effect price.
Takes time and humans being humans I make mistakes now and then.....
you can observe this,measure it,monitor it, its not a guess is it? I suppose theres a "gamble" as in sudden news may impact at any second an unknown outcome...
Isnt there a term called "maximal theory" meaning using everything that can be known to predict outcomes as opposed to "complete theory" knowing everything to predict outcomes.
I'd say that "Trading" will always be " Maximal Theory Of Trading"
great title for a book........ maybe.
**************************************************************************************************
I copied this from another thread probably belongs here anyway......... but speculative trading maybe a term i'd put to taking advantage of favourable value perceived opportunities relative to risk. however you choose to identify that value....
long hold may be classed as Investments.... but some traders hold for a year up.......
as the bard said, "What is in a name that which we call a rose by any other would smell as sweet" etc...
gamblers we may be tagged or traders....
We know what we are...... gamblers or traders admitting to it for some might be tough.
We experience the same intermittent positive reinforcement associated with gambling, lose, lose, WIN..... Observe yourself, and the markets, work through the impulsive revenge trading and learn the art of speculation maybe........
anyone add ?
Takes time and humans being humans I make mistakes now and then.....
you can observe this,measure it,monitor it, its not a guess is it? I suppose theres a "gamble" as in sudden news may impact at any second an unknown outcome...
Isnt there a term called "maximal theory" meaning using everything that can be known to predict outcomes as opposed to "complete theory" knowing everything to predict outcomes.
I'd say that "Trading" will always be " Maximal Theory Of Trading"
great title for a book........ maybe.
**************************************************************************************************
I copied this from another thread probably belongs here anyway......... but speculative trading maybe a term i'd put to taking advantage of favourable value perceived opportunities relative to risk. however you choose to identify that value....
long hold may be classed as Investments.... but some traders hold for a year up.......
as the bard said, "What is in a name that which we call a rose by any other would smell as sweet" etc...
gamblers we may be tagged or traders....
We know what we are...... gamblers or traders admitting to it for some might be tough.
We experience the same intermittent positive reinforcement associated with gambling, lose, lose, WIN..... Observe yourself, and the markets, work through the impulsive revenge trading and learn the art of speculation maybe........
anyone add ?
Game over. Your style about the markets may seem 'sterile', but believe you me, i know you. Non is without risk. What you presume as risk would not entertain another. Your knowledge is not as all knowing as you may think as is my own. We all have our understanding and knowledge and use it to our potentials. Long term is not the advantage.....everybody would leverage the long term. Where would that leave us? Does the clever person use long or short term? You tell me from an unbias perspective. If you are on the make why bother with other bias? What humans have created is a need on all timeframes....but you did not know that! Until i told you. So do as you do, but never believe there is nothing better, unless you are willing to not learn! R.
GameOver22
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Again, you are mistaken RudeBoy, do you assume alot?
I watch four different time frames before buying anything, as one time frame gives me a clearer picture of the other etc.
I watch four different time frames before buying anything, as one time frame gives me a clearer picture of the other etc.
GameOver22
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We may be "tagged" as gamblers, but those who tag us as that, are wrong. I get full satisfaction from just knowing they are wrong.
frugi
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There are endless threads that discuss the difference, or not, between the two terms and at the end of the day I don't think it matters one jot how one defines them. One thing to avoid is gambling against an entity that has a statistically quantifiable edge over you, for example by playing roulette for a long time in a casino.
Life and all it entails is a series of gambles. Every decision one takes is, in effect, speculating on an uncertain outcome once all effects of it are accounted for (an impossible task). Select the red pencil not the blue one to write your shopping list and the next thing you know the tip breaks off just when you were about to include "baby aubergines" and thus your first date's Thai green curry is a bit lacking, meaning you fail to have children with her 5 years down the line, which is a pity cause one of them would have averted a world war. Still, that's perhaps what makes the business of living so exhilarating. *replaces sherry in fridge*
This one's quite interesting -
http://www.elitetrader.com/vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=59106
Life and all it entails is a series of gambles. Every decision one takes is, in effect, speculating on an uncertain outcome once all effects of it are accounted for (an impossible task). Select the red pencil not the blue one to write your shopping list and the next thing you know the tip breaks off just when you were about to include "baby aubergines" and thus your first date's Thai green curry is a bit lacking, meaning you fail to have children with her 5 years down the line, which is a pity cause one of them would have averted a world war. Still, that's perhaps what makes the business of living so exhilarating. *replaces sherry in fridge*
This one's quite interesting -
http://www.elitetrader.com/vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=59106
